Despite having faith in Christ

pilgrim

Well-known member
Despite having faith in Christ, list what one Catholic belief will send a Catholic to hell?

1) Name only one per post.

2) Remember that belief must condemn a Catholic to hell.

3) Please remember to include an explanation as to why you believe your comment.

Thanks.
Most likely, apostasy
 

Lutheranian

Active member
Despite having faith in Christ, list what one Catholic belief will send a Catholic to hell?

1) Name only one per post.

2) Remember that belief must condemn a Catholic to hell.

3) Please remember to include an explanation as to why you believe your comment.

Thanks.
Trusting on good works to "increase justification" i would say puts someone on very shaky ground salvation wise.
 

Nic

Well-known member
Trusting on good works to "increase justification" i would say puts someone on very shaky ground salvation wise.
I tried to make this point earlier, they will argue its God enabling them to do good works, perhaps not them per se. Then we have all of the Orthodox who fail to define justification as a tenant of faith. The Orthodox errs where Rome errs, they simply change the packaging. So that presents a conundrum for me: are two largest branches of the church lost or on shaky ground? Then what about all the adherents of faith alone that either have lesser to few [if any] degrees of synergism to all out cooperating with God and decisional theology? These may be less guilty in magnitude or frequency than RCcism or the theosis loving crowd, but it is very similar if not the same just thinking outloud, any input would be welcomed and appreciated.
You can post your comments on my profile if you like or better yet start a thread in the Lutheran forum. If you don't I probably will, but it won't be til tomorrow evening and by then I may be looking for a nap too. We have an ENT appointment tomorrow for impacted ear wax our GP has made commented previously but is apparently uncomfortable with doing anything. Being stone deaf with a dementia patient and having to do signing because you can't talk loud enough is terrible for everyone. We seriously need a new GP.
Thanks.
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
Despite having faith in Christ, list what one Catholic belief will send a Catholic to hell?

1) Name only one per post.

2) Remember that belief must condemn a Catholic to hell.

3) Please remember to include an explanation as to why you believe your comment.

Thanks.

Beware the thought police?

Judged for thought crimes?
 

balshan

Well-known member
Yes; and the Catholic Church is the Church of Christ, but it also exists in this world. Because it exists in this world and because this world is fallen and sinful, we should not be surprised to see-----sin and thus corruption in the Church that exists in this world.
No your institution isn't and its fruits prove that. If you claim to be founded by Jesus then you are meant to be different. The fact that you justify its sin and corruption by it being in the world is another proof it is not founded by Jesus.

True believers and the true church is different to the world:

James 1:27

Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.

1 John 2:15+

Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride in possessions—is not from the Father but is from the world. And the world is passing away along with its desires, but whoever does the will of God abides forever.

rom 12:1+

I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship. Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.

2 Cor 5:17

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.

2 tim 1:7

For God gave us a spirit not of fear but of power and love and self-control.

Your excuses are rubbish and show that your institution does not have a real relationship with Jesus.
 

balshan

Well-known member
How many "Godly" thrones are there? Well God is a Trinity of persons. Does that mean each person has their own throne? I don't know. Let me say this then, there is one "Godly" throne as there is only one God and as God is one. How that works in a Godhead that is a Trinity I do not know---but I think it is safe to say that there is one Godly throne even if all three persons have their own throne because God is one.

Mary--and by extension the Church rules along side Christ as his queen. Mary and by extension the Church is Queen of heaven because the Church is the Bride of Christ. All kingdoms have queens.
False claims and false teachings. Your institution and Mary do not rule with anyone.
 

balshan

Well-known member
No, it shows how realistic Catholics are about the problem of sin and the need for redemption.

No one is "defending" the way the bishops dealt with abusive priests, nor is anyone defending abusive clergy.

It is just that we aren't obsessed with the scandal. As I said, there is a difference between recognizing sin, being disgusted with it, calling for and wanting accountability and obsession. We are not obsessed with the scandal. We are aware of the scandal, but not obsessed with the scandal.
No it shows are compromised RCs are with sin and they do not even see the need for redemption. Of course you are justifying the way is has dealt with its leaders. It treats women that have abortions differently to the abusive priests. They have both committed grave/mortal sins, yet excommunication for the women and not for the leaders.

Yep you just want it to go away. Pedophiles just go underground, they do not change and they are still there. The victims are still there. You are dismissing the scandals and the abuse is just one of the recent generation of scandals. But put your head in the sands, it is not what Jesus or the apostles would do at all.
 

balshan

Well-known member
I insist that it does. If you do not know how man is justified, you do not know how man is saved. Those two questions are inextricably connected.

You seem to assume, as many do, that I am a Calvinist. I guess I am close to the Reformed tradition, but I also have issues with some so-called Calvinists. For example, theologians like John F. MacArthur and Paul Washer both represent a "movement" called Lordship Salvation, which makes me feel extremely uneasy. To me, it is salvation by works dressed up as sola fide. Catholicism is, at least, honest about its rejection of sola fide.

Well, that is quite an understatement.
They think you are saved in infant baptism for a start.
 

mica

Well-known member
How many "Godly" thrones are there? Well God is a Trinity of persons. Does that mean each person has their own throne? I don't know. Let me say this then, there is one "Godly" throne as there is only one God and as God is one. How that works in a Godhead that is a Trinity I do not know---but I think it is safe to say that there is one Godly throne even if all three persons have their own throne because God is one.

Mary--and by extension the Church rules along side Christ as his queen. Mary and by extension the Church is Queen of heaven because the Church is the Bride of Christ. All kingdoms have queens.
your queen of heaven can be found in Jer 7 and in 44.
 

RayneBeau

Well-known member
You seem like one that actually is capable of an honest discussion, unlike most of the Protestants on here.

What honestly do you think of the Protestant doctrine of Sola Scriptura? Individual interpretation of scripture has led to thousands of contradicting sects, with their own hierarchy, doctrines, disciplines and forms of worship.

Yet Protestants claim that they are led by the Holy Spirit in their understanding of scripture. Obviously this cannot be true. Doesn't this completely subjectivize scripture so that the individual interpreting it can twist and contort it to make it subject to whatever it is they want to believe?
It's not as though the heart of man can't ever speak the truth; it's not as though human wisdom never gets anything right, but God's people cannot rest secure in anything that does not come from the mouth of Jehovah God Himself
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
You seem like one that actually is capable of an honest discussion, unlike most of the Protestants on here.

What honestly do you think of the Protestant doctrine of Sola Scriptura?

Untenable bunk based on several false premises which came from Catholicism.

Individual interpretation of scripture has led to thousands of contradicting sects, with their own hierarchy, doctrines, disciplines and forms of worship.

If we all conform to one doctrine, it is not meaningful in itself is it? We could all insist the pumpkin on the doorstep is the one true God. JWs have the boys in Brooklyn to control the masses; Catholics have the Magesterium. Same thing. 1,000,000,000 people conforming to a lie doesn't mean much.

Yet Protestants claim that they are led by the Holy Spirit in their understanding of scripture. Obviously this cannot be true. Doesn't this completely subjectivize scripture so that the individual interpreting it can twist and contort it to make it subject to whatever it is they want to believe?

Catholics and Protestants distort the Scriptures all the time. This has no bearing on whether Sola Scriptura is valid or not.
 

balshan

Well-known member
Untenable bunk based on several false premises which came from Catholicism.



If we all conform to one doctrine, it is not meaningful in itself is it? We could all insist the pumpkin on the doorstep is the one true God. JWs have the boys in Brooklyn to control the masses; Catholics have the Magesterium. Same thing. 1,000,000,000 people conforming to a lie doesn't mean much.



Catholics and Protestants distort the Scriptures all the time. This has no bearing on whether Sola Scriptura is valid or not.
I hate to tell you according to RCs you are a protestant.
 

Nic

Well-known member
Untenable bunk based on several false premises which came from Catholicism.



If we all conform to one doctrine, it is not meaningful in itself is it? We could all insist the pumpkin on the doorstep is the one true God. JWs have the boys in Brooklyn to control the masses; Catholics have the Magesterium. Same thing. 1,000,000,000 people conforming to a lie doesn't mean much.



Catholics and Protestants distort the Scriptures all the time. This has no bearing on whether Sola Scriptura is valid or not.
I wouldn't get hung up on what others say about what they see as a must. Some of them are on record here as not Catholic and vehemently deny being Protestant, inclusive of those in this thread aside from you. So take that with a grain of salt and for whatever that's worth. Double standards aren't really all that uncommon, even if unintentional.
For you the bigger issue among Christians your denial of Christ as deity. Oddly an early heresy wasn't denying Christ's deity but his humanity.
 

balshan

Well-known member
I wouldn't get hung up on what others say about what they see as a must. Some of them are on record here as not Catholic and vehemently deny being Protestant, inclusive of those in this thread aside from you. So take that with a grain of salt and for whatever that's worth. Double standards aren't really all that uncommon, even if unintentional.
For you the bigger issue among Christians your denial of Christ as deity. Oddly an early heresy wasn't denying Christ's deity but his humanity.
Nic not being RC does not make one a protestant and shows your lack of understanding of the views of others.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
I just see Catholicism as a valid Christian church.

You are free to hold your opinion.

Plain and simple. Not everything RC was evil.

I certainly agree.
But without the true gospel, it can't be truly Christian.

Luther accepted the church even as it was as a gift from the holy spirit.

I dislike statements like this, as most Christians in history had beliefs which evolved over time. At the beginning of Luther's involvement in the church, he believed that the church had minor errors which should be corroded within. However, as he realized the depths of the RCC's errors, and that is his position was far closer to Hus' than he originally wanted to believe, I don't believe his "acceptance" of the church could be said to have continued.
 

Nic

Well-known member
Nic not being RC does not make one a protestant and shows your lack of understanding of the views of others.
Yet it was established to participate in this forum, one must be either one or the other. Nuf said.
 

Nic

Well-known member
You are free to hold your opinion.



I certainly agree.
But without the true gospel, it can't be truly Christian.



I dislike statements like this, as most Christians in history had beliefs which evolved over time. At the beginning of Luther's involvement in the church, he believed that the church had minor errors which should be corroded within. However, as he realized the depths of the RCC's errors, and that is his position was far closer to Hus' than he originally wanted to believe, I don't believe his "acceptance" of the church could be said to have continued.
The statement was made by Paul McCain in explaining our confessions and starting points versus.... well others.
 
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