Despite having faith in Christ

[mica]

Yes. I don't find one verse that says that the bonds that unite us unravel with death. That is why I am asking you to show me where it says that.

what verses did you find about bonds that unite believers?

I know Mary through my union with the head of the Body, namely Christ. Because Mary is part of the body, and because Christ unites the body as its head, I know all believers through my union Christ because in Christ all believers are united.

what union with Christ? you continually claim to be united with the RCC and your beliefs and posts support that.

No I do not have the Scripture for that. But where did you get the idea that I am saying non-believers are part of the body of Christ?

your posts.

If one is a non-believer in this life and fails to come to Christ, they do not become part of the body at death.

how does someone 'come to Christ'?

 

[balshan]

what verses did you find about bonds that unite believers?


what union with Christ? you continually claim to be united with the RCC and your beliefs and posts support that.


your posts.


how does someone 'come to Christ'?

Well I know by its actions that the RCC is not in union with Christ. Its actions speak and they scream out we are not in union with Jesus.

 

[romishpopishorganist]

what verses did you find about bonds that unite believers?

Um--are you saying that the bonds of love that knit believers together in Christ unravel with death? Believers are no longer part of the Body of Christ when they die? Can you cite the Scripture for this?

what union with Christ?

Those whoa re justified are united to Christ MICA. I can believe I have to explain such a basic concept to you. You are supposed to be the Bible Christian--remember? I am Catholic and even I know this much.

you continually claim to be united with the RCC and your beliefs and posts support that.

Correct. What does this have to do with anything?

how does someone 'come to Christ'?

The normal way is through Baptism.

 

[romishpopishorganist]

Not if they have gone somewhere else.

Believers might go some place other than heaven?

Where might they go? Hell? Limbo? Purgatory? Some other planet--like in Mormonism?

Those will never be part of the body and we have no idea who goes where because we are not God.

Correct. That is why God reveals it to the Church.

My theology is not one dimensional, God is never one dimensional that is more the problem for wolves.

Well the posters on this site say things like "It isn't 'necessary' to pray to Mary or be devoted to Mary." And the posters are correct in saying that--but that isn't the point. Love does not work like that. Love is not broken down in such binary ways like "necessary" vs "not necessary." No one who loves another talks like that.

Yes we have all seen RCC concept of love throughout the centuries and recently that love for its victims was there for all to see. I reject the RCC concept of love, it is more like hate.

Here we go with the scandal bit again......do you talk about anything else or do you have a one track mind.

How many times do I have to tell you: these boards are not for the purposes of discussions about that. Go to the RCC other boards and talk about the scandal all you want. The scandal has nothing to do with this thread and nothing to do with the issues that divide Catholics and Protestants.

 

[Maxtar]

Here we go with the scandal bit again......do you talk about anything else or do you have a one track mind.

The scandal within the Catholic Church is the persons reason for living. Every day it is get up, jump on the computer, and bring up the scandal again, and again, and again. Constructive conversation CANNOT be had with some of these folks.

 

[balshan]

Believers might go some place other than heaven?

Where might they go? Hell? Limbo? Purgatory? Some other planet--like in Mormonism?


Correct. That is why God reveals it to the Church.


Well the posters on this site say things like "It isn't 'necessary' to pray to Mary or be devoted to Mary." And the posters are correct in saying that--but that isn't the point. Love does not work like that. Love is not broken down in such binary ways like "necessary" vs "not necessary." No one who loves another talks like that.


Here we go with the scandal bit again......do you talk about anything else or do you have a one track mind.

How many times do I have to tell you: these boards are not for the purposes of discussions about that. Go to the RCC other boards and talk about the scandal all you want. The scandal has nothing to do with this thread and nothing to do with the issues that divide Catholics and Protestants.

Who are the believers?? How do you know they are believers? No there is no purgatory. If you believe in purgatory, then are you a follower of Jesus?

Your church has had nothing revealed to it.

Actions speak no matter how much you want to put your head in the sand. These boards are for exactly that. Your make claims the fruit of your institution prove they are false claims therefore it is appropriate for them to be mention. They happen century after century, decade after decade and they prove your institution has nothing revealed to by God.

1 John 3:18

Little children, let us not love in word or talk but in deed and in truth.

James 2:17

So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

James

1 John 3:18

Little children, let us not love in word or talk but in deed and in truth.

James 1:22

But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.

Your see actions speak, the actions of the RCC show it is deceived, it is dead.

 

[balshan]

The scandal within the Catholic Church is the persons reason for living. Every day it is get up, jump on the computer, and bring up the scandal again, and again, and again. Constructive conversation CANNOT be had with some of these folks.

More false claims by you.

 

[mica]

mica said:
what verses did you find about bonds that unite believers?

Um--are you saying that the bonds of love that knit believers together in Christ unravel with death?

where do you see that written in my post above?

you obviously have no scripture verses to support your post that I replied to.

Believers are no longer part of the Body of Christ when they die? Can you cite the Scripture for this?

Where do you see that written in my reply to you post? show it to me.
you're asking ME to post scripture to support something I didn't post? I can't post scripture to support what you twisted a post to mean. catholics are the ones who twist posts and scripture.

I'm still waiting for you to post verses supporting what was in your post. I haven't seen those verses yet.

just more catholic diversion when you can't answer...

mica said: - what union with Christ?

Those whoa re justified are united to Christ MICA. I can believe I have to explain such a basic concept to you. You are supposed to be the Bible Christian--remember? I am Catholic and even I know this much.

I do know. I experienced it. it's something catholics obviously haven't experienced. They don't know about it because the RCC doesn't teach it to them.

mica said: - you continually claim to be united with the RCC and your beliefs and posts support that.

Correct. What does this have to do with anything?

you cannot serve 2 masters. by your own words yours is the RCC.

mica said: - how does someone 'come to Christ'?

The normal way is through Baptism.

no, that's not the biblical way, not God's way. that's just another deception of the RCC.

water baptism saves no one. No one is born again by water baptism.

one is born again when God changes their heart. A heart changed by God does not believe in and follow man. It will believe in His Son, desire more of Christ, desire to know the truth of His word and have the guidance of the Holy Spirit (who teaches and guides no one contrary to God's word).

 

[leonard03782]

The scandal within the Catholic Church is the persons reason for living. Every day it is get up, jump on the computer, and bring up the scandal again, and again, and again. Constructive conversation CANNOT be had with some of these folks.

Look in the mirror and point at yourselves as well. If one of your children or grandchildren had been victimized by your religion's perverted clergy, perhaps you would have had a different point of view on this subject.

Bringing up the scandals of your false religion is perfectly acceptable because it goes to prove the point that your religion and its leaders are not what they claim to be. Like it or not we will not stop reminding you about it.

 

[balshan]

Look in the mirror and point at yourselves as well. If one of your children or grandchildren had been victimized by your religion's perverted clergy, perhaps you would have had a different point of view on this subject.

Bringing up the scandals of your false religion is perfectly acceptable because it goes to prove the point that your religion and its leaders are not what they claim to be. Like it or not we will not stop reminding you about it.

You are so right. They do not understand that God's word is clear, actions speak and tell us the truth about the institution. We are told to discern its fruit.

 

[Nic]

Why did you ever leave the RCC?

Too long a narrative for here.
The absolute most concise version follows.
Growing pains, doubt in what things I previously accepted as universal understanding. Like most young teenagers, I rebelled.

 

[mica]

You are so right. They do not understand that God's word is clear, actions speak and tell us the truth about the institution. We are told to discern its fruit.

and that's what we do. the RCC makes it known to the world by its continuation of it and covers ups regarding it. It hasn't stopped.

 

[Nic]

The scandal within the Catholic Church is the persons reason for living. Every day it is get up, jump on the computer, and bring up the scandal again, and again, and again. Constructive conversation CANNOT be had with some of these folks.

That may or may not be why they left, but there is no shortage of theses events.
IMO, Scandals prove that sinners sin and that's about it. Scandals tend to be common to all.

 

[balshan]

That may or may not be why they left, but there is no shortage of theses events.
IMO, Scandals prove that sinners sin and that's about it. Scandals tend to be common to all.

I have much better reasons for living and it has nothing to do with the RCC. I left because I read the scriptures and found it failed to teach the truth and then its actions showed its true fruit. When an institution or their followers make claims there needs to be evidence. Scripture tells us the evidence it is the truth and to discern the fruits (actions). The RCC fails these vital tests.

I love Jesus and cannot understand how people survive without Him in their lives. I never found Him in the RCC, I found Mary, the pope and they take you for a merry ride down the garden path and not to the Lord.

 

[Nic]

I have much better reasons for living and it has nothing to do with the RCC. I left because I read the scriptures and found it failed to teach the truth and then its actions showed its true fruit. When an institution or their followers make claims there needs to be evidence. Scripture tells us the evidence it is the truth and to discern the fruits (actions). The RCC fails these vital tests.

I love Jesus and cannot understand how people survive without Him in their lives. I never found Him in the RCC, I found Mary, the pope and they take you for a merry ride down the garden path and not to the Lord.

I know Catholics that read the scriptures daily and they love being Catholic and most of all Jesus. Sounds foreign doesn't it? But I know being R Catholic doesn't exclude one from being a Christian.

 

[balshan]

I know Catholics that read the scriptures daily and they love being Catholic and most of all Jesus. Sounds foreign doesn't it? But I know being R Catholic doesn't exclude one from being a Christian.

Never found them (there is one exception) and I grew up in a very RC family, went through their schooling system, taught in RC schools, the priests were around all the time drinking with my alcoholic father. My father was a great contributor to the church.

I met one very old RC woman and she had started a mixed bible study group. Really lovely person, as the only other RC there at the time she pulled me aside and said I cannot find Mary in the bible like we are taught. She was in her 80s I said just keep praying and reading the scripture. She loved Jesus but she is a rarity. I mean my grandmother told my father not to worry I would return but no I will never go back to where I know the truth isn't. The old catholic guilt, no longer works on me. I have RC friends and family members who go to mediums. I blame the false teachings about praying to the dead for this. I tell them it is not in scripture and the RCc says not to do it but they still go. The problem is the syncretism, the way the institution has mixed with the world. I mean my Italian relatives were all into the evil eye and doing signs to avoid it. Seriously, this is what happens when you base your teachings on things of the world and not scripture.

Yes to the cynics I do have RC friends. But they do not read scriptures. They do not know of Jesus and do not have a relationship with Him. It is a shame. I know others who have left because the do not approve of the way their institution has handled the latest scandals. You can say something until you are black and blue in the face but actions speak louder than words.

The scriptures tell us to discern the fruits and when there are false claims, I will point out the evidence. The evidence is in their institutions actions. It does not matter how much they want to put their heads in the sands, those actions tell us their claims are false. Also, if they think these scandals have stopped then they are deluded. Pedophiles might go under ground they do not disappear. Also, they act as if these latest scandals are the only ones. It has a history of scandals century after century, decade after decade. It is poisonous fruit.

They talk a lot, they talk about loving their neighbour we ex RCs have felt that love in their posts.

I still do not see Jesus in their actions. Jesus would not allow sin to flourish, He would protect children and the nuns, He would not allow mothers to witness their unbaptised babies being buried in unconsecrated grounds, He would not have allowed the inquistions, He would not put those popes who cared more about themselves that is just some of the ways they do not prove they do not follow Jesus. That does not include false teachings.

As I have said the devil believes in Jesus and he is not saved and we know his future.

 

[balshan]

I always hope that on the death bed people get saved. But it would be better if it happened earlier. Also it teaches a worked based salvation and yet its works tell a different story. If we are saved we are changed into a new creature.

 

[Nic]

Never found them (there is one exception) and I grew up in a very RC family, went through their schooling system, taught in RC schools, the priests were around all the time drinking with my alcoholic father. My father was a great contributor to the church.

That's unfortunate save one. I'm sorry.

I met one very old RC woman and she had started a mixed bible study group. Really lovely person, as the only other RC there at the time she pulled me aside and said I cannot find Mary in the bible like we are taught. She was in her 80s I said just keep praying and reading the scripture. She loved Jesus but she is a rarity.

I'm sure there's data on the web like pew research sites and of the like that would corroborate the number of persons in church that are likely seat warmers, esp. in large or popular churches.
Well good on her. Loving Jesus the best of us have trouble with from where I stand.

I mean my grandmother told my father not to worry I would return but no I will never go back to where I know the truth isn't. The old catholic guilt, no longer works on me. I have RC friends and family members who go to mediums. I blame the false teachings about praying to the dead for this. I tell them it is not in scripture and the RCc says not to do it but they still go.

Well there is more data I'm sure that says this Christian group have the highest number of deconversions to LDS and Masons and other non-Christian groups, but these things don't really prove or disprove anything. (AISI) They may be indicators of a problem or a trend but as far as I'll say.

The problem is the syncretism, the way the institution has mixed with the world. I mean my Italian relatives were all into the evil eye and doing signs to avoid it. Seriously, this is what happens when you base your teachings on things of the world and not scripture.

There are lots of people guilty of syncretism, oftentimes they just fail to recognize it in their own backyard.

Yes to the cynics I do have RC friends. But they do not read scriptures. They do not know of Jesus and do not have a relationship with Him. It is a shame. I know others who have left because the do not approve of the way their institution has handled the latest scandals. You can say something until you are black and blue in the face but actions speak louder than words.

Yes sometimes social issues divide churches where in my view it should be doctrine. The trouble is, there isn't enough doctrine left in most churches today to divide over, so they turn to something else.

The scriptures tell us to discern the fruits and when there are false claims, I will point out the evidence. The evidence is in their institutions actions. It does not matter how much they want to put their heads in the sands, those actions tell us their claims are false. Also, if they think these scandals have stopped then they are deluded. Pedophiles might go under ground they do not disappear. Also, they act as if these latest scandals are the only ones. It has a history of scandals century after century, decade after decade. It is poisonous fruit.

I really hate defending all these different things but sinners sin, scandals abound, pretty much everywhere.

They talk a lot, they talk about loving their neighbour we ex RCs have felt that love in their posts.

IMO RCs put up with a lot of not too kind rhetoric. Frankly we are lucky to have any of them return to post here with the billy club of love that we often show them.

I still do not see Jesus in their actions. Jesus would not allow sin to flourish, He would protect children and the nuns, He would not allow mothers to witness their unbaptised babies being buried in unconsecrated grounds, He would not have allowed the inquistions, He would not put those popes who cared more about themselves that is just some of the ways they do not prove they do not follow Jesus. That does not include false teachings.

As I have said the devil believes in Jesus and he is not saved and we know his future.

Sinners sin, the church is full of sinners.

 

[Nic]

Never found them (there is one exception) and I grew up in a very RC family, went through their schooling system, taught in RC schools, the priests were around all the time drinking with my alcoholic father. My father was a great contributor to the church.

That's unfortunate save one. I'm sorry.

I met one very old RC woman and she had started a mixed bible study group. Really lovely person, as the only other RC there at the time she pulled me aside and said I cannot find Mary in the bible like we are taught. She was in her 80s I said just keep praying and reading the scripture. She loved Jesus but she is a rarity.

I'm sure there's data on the web like pew research sites and of the like that would corroborate the number of persons in church that are likely seat warmers, esp. in large or popular churches.
Well good on her. Loving Jesus the best of us have trouble with from where I stand.

I mean my grandmother told my father not to worry I would return but no I will never go back to where I know the truth isn't. The old catholic guilt, no longer works on me. I have RC friends and family members who go to mediums. I blame the false teachings about praying to the dead for this. I tell them it is not in scripture and the RCc says not to do it but they still go.

Well there is more data I'm sure that says this Christian group have the highest number of deconversions to LDS and Masons and other non-Christian groups, but these things don't really prove or disprove anything. (AISI) They may be indicators of a problem or a trend but as far as I'll say.

The problem is the syncretism, the way the institution has mixed with the world. I mean my Italian relatives were all into the evil eye and doing signs to avoid it. Seriously, this is what happens when you base your teachings on things of the world and not scripture.

There are lots of people guilty of syncretism, oftentimes they just fail to recognize it in their own backyard.

Yes to the cynics I do have RC friends. But they do not read scriptures. They do not know of Jesus and do not have a relationship with Him. It is a shame. I know others who have left because the do not approve of the way their institution has handled the latest scandals. You can say something until you are black and blue in the face but actions speak louder than words.

Yes sometimes social issues divide churches where in my view it should be doctrine. The trouble is, there isn't enough doctrine left in most churches today to divide over, so they turn to something else.

The scriptures tell us to discern the fruits and when there are false claims, I will point out the evidence. The evidence is in their institutions actions. It does not matter how much they want to put their heads in the sands, those actions tell us their claims are false. Also, if they think these scandals have stopped then they are deluded. Pedophiles might go under ground they do not disappear. Also, they act as if these latest scandals are the only ones. It has a history of scandals century after century, decade after decade. It is poisonous fruit.

I really hate defending all these different things but sinners sin, scandals abound, pretty much everywhere.

They talk a lot, they talk about loving their neighbour we ex RCs have felt that love in their posts.

IMO RCs out up with a lot not too kind rhetoric. Frankly we are lucky to have any of them return to post here with the billy club of love that we often hit them with.

I still do not see Jesus in their actions. Jesus would not allow sin to flourish, He would protect children and the nuns, He would not allow mothers to witness their unbaptised babies being buried in unconsecrated grounds, He would not have allowed the inquistions, He would not put those popes who cared more about themselves that is just some of the ways they do not prove they do not follow Jesus. That does not include false teachings.

As I have said the devil believes in Jesus and he is not saved and we know his future.

Sinners sin, the church is full of sinners. The one person who will judge and whose judgment matters doesn't post at CARM.

 

[Johan]

I really hate defending all these different things but sinners sin, scandals abound, pretty much everywhere.

IMO RCs put up with a lot of not too kind rhetoric. Frankly we are lucky to have any of them return to post here with the billy club of love that we often show them.

Sinners sin, the church is full of sinners.

I try, to the best of my capacity, to avoid ad hominem arguments. Still, I would never refrain from speaking my mind about what I think of Catholic theology (or any theology that I find teaching a false gospel). And I could not care less if anyone feels offended by that. But you sound like a potential revert to me. I get the impression that many Lutherans have a soft spot for Catholicism and even seem to have a bad conscience for the "disunion" that the Reformation caused. The only thing I can deplore is that Protestant theology has not severed its ties completely with Catholicism. Catholicism did not need a "reformation," but a resurrection from the dead.