Despite having faith in Christ

balshan

Well-known member
Never found them (there is one exception) and I grew up in a very RC family, went through their schooling system, taught in RC schools, the priests were around all the time drinking with my alcoholic father. My father was a great contributor to the church.

I met one very old RC woman and she had started a mixed bible study group. Really lovely person, as the only other RC there at the time she pulled me aside and said I cannot find Mary in the bible like we are taught. She was in her 80s I said just keep praying and reading the scripture. She loved Jesus but she is a rarity. I mean my grandmother told my father not to worry I would return but no I will never go back to where I know the truth isn't. The old catholic guilt, no longer works on me. I have RC friends and family members who go to mediums. I blame the false teachings about praying to the dead for this. I tell them it is not in scripture and the RCc says not to do it but they still go. The problem is the syncretism, the way the institution has mixed with the world. I mean my Italian relatives were all into the evil eye and doing signs to avoid it. Seriously, this is what happens when you base your teachings on things of the world and not scripture.

Yes to the cynics I do have RC friends. But they do not read scriptures. They do not know of Jesus and do not have a relationship with Him. It is a shame. I know others who have left because the do not approve of the way their institution has handled the latest scandals. You can say something until you are black and blue in the face but actions speak louder than words.

The scriptures tell us to discern the fruits and when there are false claims, I will point out the evidence. The evidence is in their institutions actions. It does not matter how much they want to put their heads in the sands, those actions tell us their claims are false. Also, if they think these scandals have stopped then they are deluded. Pedophiles might go under ground they do not disappear. Also, they act as if these latest scandals are the only ones. It has a history of scandals century after century, decade after decade. It is poisonous fruit.

They talk a lot, they talk about loving their neighbour we ex RCs have felt that love in their posts.

I still do not see Jesus in their actions. Jesus would not allow sin to flourish, He would protect children and the nuns, He would not allow mothers to witness their unbaptised babies being buried in unconsecrated grounds, He would not have allowed the inquistions, He would not put those popes who cared more about themselves that is just some of the ways they do not prove they do not follow Jesus. That does not include false teachings.

As I have said the devil believes in Jesus and he is not saved and we know his future.
NT
 

balshan

Well-known member
That's unfortunate save one. I'm sorry.

I'm sure there's data on the web like pew research sites and of the like that would corroborate the number of persons in church that are likely seat warmers, esp. in large or popular churches.
Well good on her. Loving Jesus the best of us have trouble with from where I stand.

Well there is more data I'm sure that says this Christian group have the highest number of deconversions to LDS and Masons and other non-Christian groups, but these things don't really prove or disprove anything. (AISI) They may be indicators of a problem or a trend but as far as I'll say.

There are lots of people guilty of syncretism, oftentimes they just fail to recognize it in their own backyard.

Yes sometimes social issues divide churches where in my view it should be doctrine. The trouble is, there isn't enough doctrine left in most churches today to divide over, so they turn to something else.

I really hate defending all these different things but sinners sin, scandals abound, pretty much everywhere.

IMO RCs put up with a lot of not too kind rhetoric. Frankly we are lucky to have any of them return to post here with the billy club of love that we often show them.

Sinners sin, the church is full of sinners.
Your problem is that makes them the same as the world, no difference. Thus proving their claims of being the one true church, the pillar and foundation of truth etc all false. If an institution is the same as the world and it has wolves for leaders then it is the same as the world. There is no Jesus to be found in it.

The real church is different.
 

balshan

Well-known member
That's unfortunate save one. I'm sorry.

I'm sure there's data on the web like pew research sites and of the like that would corroborate the number of persons in church that are likely seat warmers, esp. in large or popular churches.
Well good on her. Loving Jesus the best of us have trouble with from where I stand.

Well there is more data I'm sure that says this Christian group have the highest number of deconversions to LDS and Masons and other non-Christian groups, but these things don't really prove or disprove anything. (AISI) They may be indicators of a problem or a trend but as far as I'll say.

There are lots of people guilty of syncretism, oftentimes they just fail to recognize it in their own backyard.

Yes sometimes social issues divide churches where in my view it should be doctrine. The trouble is, there isn't enough doctrine left in most churches today to divide over, so they turn to something else.

I really hate defending all these different things but sinners sin, scandals abound, pretty much everywhere.

IMO RCs out up with a lot not too kind rhetoric. Frankly we are lucky to have any of them return to post here with the billy club of love that we often hit them with.

Sinners sin, the church is full of sinners. The one person who will judge and whose judgment matters doesn't post at CARM.
I repeat actions speak.

Repeat -

Your problem is that makes them the same as the world, no difference. Thus proving their claims of being the one true church, the pillar and foundation of truth etc all false. If an institution is the same as the world and it has wolves for leaders then it is the same as the world. There is no Jesus to be found in it.

The real church is different. Its actions show they follow Jesus.

The RCC is not and never was what it claims to be. It lies and there is only one father of lies.

I don't do ad hominem but have had plenty thrown my way, I mention facts true facts that is not an ad hominem. The truth is the truth and if you make claims as their institution does, then the actions better live up to the claims.
 

Nic

Well-known member
Your problem is that makes them the same as the world, no difference. Thus proving their claims of being the one true church, the pillar and foundation of truth etc all false. If an institution is the same as the world and it has wolves for leaders then it is the same as the world. There is no Jesus to be found in it.

The real church is different.
If you say so. My pastor is a sinner too, so am I.
The real church advocates are pietists, no?
It probably started with a handful of Lutherans a few centuries back.
 
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Nic

Well-known member
I try, to the best of my capacity, to avoid ad hominem arguments. Still, I would never refrain from speaking my mind about what I think of Catholic theology (or any theology that I find teaching a false gospel). And I could not care less if anyone feels offended by that. But you sound like a potential revert to me. I get the impression that many Lutherans have a soft spot for Catholicism and even seem to have a bad conscience for the "disunion" that the Reformation caused. The only thing I can deplore is that Protestant theology has not severed its ties completely with Catholicism. Catholicism did not need a "reformation," but a resurrection from the dead.
I just see Catholicism as a valid Christian church. Plain and simple. Not everything RC was evil. Some reformers seemed to advocate for rethinking church entirely. Luther accepted the church even as it was as a gift from the holy spirit.
 

balshan

Well-known member
If you say so. My pastor is a sinner too, so am I.
Not if I say so, so patronising. So do you deliberately sin, do you attack children, rape nuns, murder non believers etc. These are what the leaders of the RCC do. So do you keep recrucifying Jesus.

Hebrew 6:4+

For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt

James 4:17

So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.

1 John 3:9

No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God
 

Nic

Well-known member
So do you deliberately sin, do you attack children, rape nuns, murder non believers etc. These are what the leaders of the RCC do. So do you keep recrucifying Jesus.

Hebrew 6:4+

For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt

James 4:17

So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.

1 John 3:9

No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God
Yeah. I'm busted. I do all that.🤮
These kinds of comments make me wonder why Catholics even bother.
 

balshan

Well-known member
And that is the critical difference between us. So if you think it is a valid Christian church, it surely must be teaching a valid gospel, right? And if that is the case, the Reformation was just an unfortunate example of miscommunication.
Wouldn't that make all the reformers heretics?
 

Nic

Well-known member
And that is the critical difference between us. So if you think it is a valid Christian church, it surely must be teaching a valid gospel, right? And if that is the case, the Reformation was just an unfortunate example of miscommunication.
I didn't say it was perfect. I can say a lot about non-Catholics and there faith alone supposed assertion. I do believe the church errors when asserting anything different than faith alone. The epitome of faith alone is an infant sleeping during baptism.
To the best of my knowledge ALL Lutherans acknowledge RCcism as a valid Christian church. No soft spots or revert trajectory necessary.
 
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balshan

Well-known member
I didn't say it was perfect. I can say a lot about non-Catholics and there faith alone supposed assertion. I do believe the church errors when asserting anything different than faith alone. The epitome of faith alone is an infant sleeping during baptism.
You should just return to where your heart is. You don't understand what faith alone really means.
 

Nic

Well-known member
You should just return to where your heart is. You don't understand what faith alone really means.
If you mean attending church services in person, I'll do that when my present duty allows me too.
 
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