Deuteronomy 7:6-8 - A Chosen People

eternomade

Well-known member
1. You claim you deserve hell like everyone else or is that all of a certain group? or is all of mankind?
2. Somehow you received grace while these same people get what they deserve.

You've created a contradiction that you must reconcile.
I do not think these are contradictions. Grace is unmerited favor. If Hitler were to receive grace and Mother Teresa not, it would still be fair....
 

Carbon

Well-known member
Lets break what you're claiming apart.
Okay, sure PY.
1. You claim you deserve hell like everyone else or is that all of a certain group? or is all of mankind?
If you knew scripture the answer is obvious.
all men.
2. Somehow you received grace while these same people get what they deserve.
Yes. Why? Ask God, not me.
You've created a contradiction that you must reconcile.
Nope, you just have no understanding.

I have no issue working with you here to help your understanding of these things. Where I may fall short we have others, like RV, Civic, Theo1689 just to name a few.

So, what say ye?

But you must loose the attitude.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Let me first say that there is a reason I posted

John 6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

This verse shows that God's choice in the 12, as he was referencing in John 6:70, wasn't about anything other than being chosen to be an apostle.

In like manner, the verses you quote are a reference to God's choice in national Israel. It has nothing to do with what Calvinism teaches concerning the "Elect" and the "Damned".
Jesus Christ's choice for Service, is not the same as his Father's choice for Salvation...
 
G

guest1

Guest
I agree with Carbon but maybe I dont understand what PY saw....I believe Judas was eternally predestined to hell.
I believe that is the case but I’m not sure most Calvinists agree. That’s more of double predestination/ hyper C’s.

And I’m not hyper but I believe judas was predestined to do everything he said and did
 
G

guest1

Guest
Who knows what happened to Judas afterwards. I don't know. No one does.
Are you sure about that ?

He was called the son of perdition/destruction by Jesus which is the same name given to the man of sin in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 and judas in John 17:12. The word perdition means eternal damnation. When a person is called the son of perdition it has the meaning of a person in an unredeemable state, someone who is already eternally damned while he is still alive.

Nowhere in scripture does it say that Judas was saved or possessed eternal life. In fact it declares just the opposite. The bible teaches that Judas was the son of perdition from the beginning. He was created for the very purpose and role as the traitor who would betray Jesus. Jesus said of Judas it would of been better off for him to not even been born than to betray the Son of Man.

John 6:63-65
The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life. 64 Yet there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray Him. 65 He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him."

John 6:70-71
Then Jesus replied, "Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!" 71 (He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray Him.)

John 12:4-6
But one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, who was later to betray Him, objected, 5 "Why wasn't this perfume sold and the money given to the poor? It was worth a year's wages." 6 He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it.

John 13:10-11
10 Jesus answered, "A person who has had a bath needs only to wash his feet; his whole body is clean. And you are clean, though not every one of you." 11 For He knew who was going to betray Him, and that was why He said not every one was clean.


John 17:12
12 While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.

Matt 26:23-25
23 Jesus replied, "The one who has dipped his hand into the bowl with me will betray me. 24 The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born."

25 Then Judas, the one who would betray him, said, "Surely not I, Rabbi?"

Jesus answered, "Yes, it is you."

Acts 1:16-19
16 and said, "Brothers, the Scripture had to be fulfilled which the Holy Spirit spoke long ago through the mouth of David concerning Judas, who served as guide for those who arrested Jesus— 17 he was one of our number and shared in this ministry."

18 (With the reward he got for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out. 19 Everyone in Jerusalem heard about this, so they called that field in their language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.)

Acts 1:24-26
Show us which of these two you have chosen 25 to take over this apostolic ministry, which Judas left to go where he belongs." 26 Then they cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias; so he was added to the eleven apostles.

Ps 109:4-8
In return for my friendship they accuse me,
but I am a man of prayer.
5 They repay me evil for good,
and hatred for my friendship.


6 Appoint an evil man to oppose him;
let an accuser stand at his right hand.
7 When he is tried, let him be found guilty,
and may his prayers condemn him.
8 May his days be few;
may another take his place of leadership.
 

Carbon

Well-known member
Let me first say that there is a reason I posted

John 6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

This verse shows that God's choice in the 12, as he was referencing in John 6:70, wasn't about anything other than being chosen to be an apostle.

In like manner, the verses you quote are a reference to God's choice in national Israel. It has nothing to do with what Calvinism teaches concerning the "Elect" and the "Damned".
Why are you stumbling over scripture so often friend?
 

eternomade

Well-known member
How are you judging "fairness". Can you define "fairness"?

It seems you're simply saying it is "fair" because you believe God chose it.
I judge it based on what scripture says, although that is difficult for me.

God judges fairness and He says sin deserves hell. Unless we are found to be in the Beloved.

All have sinned.

God is good.

All deserve hell.

If everyone is in hell, that would be fair.

God tells us that His ways are not our ways. He also says "Who are you to answer back to God?".

I am not sure it would be ok for me to be the judge of fairness
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Grace is established Unconditionally, or it's not Unmerited Favor...
Unmerited Election ~ by ReverendRV

Ephesians 2:8 KJV
; For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Compared to many Christians I know, I consider myself a ‘mini-Theologian’; an ABC, 123 kind of guy. In a way, this can be advantageous; I can say something which is as true as a deep Theologian but say it in a way that’s easier to understand. There’s a Doctrine called Unconditional Election, one of the 5-Points of Calvinism; it means that God chooses you to be Saved before you choose him as your God. I said to a friend that every Evangelical believes in Unconditional Election and I could prove it. Our verse says we are Saved by Grace, which means ‘Unmerited Favor’; there is no condition we can ever meet to earn the Favor of God. God chooses people before they’ve done anything Good to deserve it or before they have done anything bad not to deserve it, that his purpose in Election will stand. I suggested to my friend that we change the name of Unconditional Election to Unmerited Election, and he said this would mean we are Saved by Grace. I said, “Now you’re getting it!” How can we be Saved any other way but by Grace?

Let me explain the problem. ~ Have you ever used the name of God as a cuss word? We take his Name in Vain and this is Blasphemy; what if someone went around running your name through the mud? Have you kept the Sabbath Day Holy? What if you invited someone to your Wedding but they decided to work in the yard instead; how would you feel? What if the person decided to choose your Fiancee for you before they would come? Shouldn’t YOUR purpose in your Engagement stand? These are just three of the Ten Commandments, not even counting Lying and Stealing; if God judged you by his standard would you be innocent or guilty? Would you go to Heaven or to Hell? Shouldn’t he choose anyone else but you to live happily ever after with him? Does this bother you? Then you should check to see if you’ve been invited…

This is what God’s invitation looks like. ~ For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting Life! Jesus Christ is the Son of God and he was the Sinless sacrifice which appeases the Wrath of God against Sinners. He was hung on a Cross and shed his blood for the remission of Sins that he never committed; the Just dying for the Unjust. He arose from the grave and became the Author of Life for everyone who would dare to believe. We’re Saved by God’s Grace through Faith in the Resurrected Savior Jesus Christ, apart from Works; that’s the only way it could be true that it’s not of ourselves. Repent of your Sins, Confess Jesus Christ as Lord and start reading your Bible. ~ Unconditional Election doesn’t mean you can’t be Saved but teaches that God chooses us first, then we choose him. Since God is allowed to choose his people like we are allowed to choose our own spouse, God can choose you even if you think you’re unlovable. God’s Love is special…

John 15:19 KJV; If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
 

Carbon

Well-known member
No matter how you slice it. You and I both believe that God will save some and damn others.

However, it is important how we establish these facts.

In all honesty, "fairness" is a complicated philosophy. Which is why I often mention "perspective". What is fair to some isn't very fair to others. I'll say more later.
It doesn’t matter what is fair to one and not fair to another.
It’s God’s choice.

Why do you think man has something to do with it?
 
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