Developing an Ability to Work With the Biblical Text in the Original Languages

Arkycharlie

Active member
This is not for everyone and for all those who believe that their favorite translation is all they need to understand and interpret Scripture, more power to you. I’m not trying to convert anyone here.

To begin, I want to make clear that I am mainly concerned with the Hebrew and Aramaic text of the OT. And that is particularly true when the subject is OT eschatology. I like the way Gary Stearman put it when he wrote:

“Usually, Biblical prophecy is a lengthy timeline, punctuated by various details that must be carefully connected through long, meticulous and objective study that cuts across the writings of many prophets.”​
Gary Stearman, Prophecy in the News Magazine, 2008​

Anyone who thinks that this can be done as successfully with a favorite English translation as one with an ability to access the text in the original Hebrew is ill informed and lacking an understanding of the liberties taken by translators to make the text conform to often inaccurate presuppositions. These days, I never completely trust a translation in the OT without verifying it with my favorite free Greek / Hebrew interlinear Bible software titled Interlinear Scripture Analyzer (https://www.scripture4all.org/)

There’s a pretty steep learning curve but it is well worth the effort, or at least it completely revolutionized my ability to work with OT prophecy. I will also suggest a couple of books that have been tremendously helpful to me in using the software.

First, I highly recommend Biblical Hebrew: Step by Step Volume. 1 by Menahem Mansoor that’s available on Amazon. In studying it I was able to glean enough about Hebrew grammar to point me in the right direction, so to speak.

I also highly recommend “AMG's Annotated Strong's Dictionaries (Word Study Series) by the now deceased Spiros Zodhiates. It has in-depth definitions of all significant words in the Biblical text that far surpass the old original Strong’s Dictionary. In fact, I highly recommend this book to anyone who is a serious student of Scripture. Of course, this is also available on Amazon.

Again, I emphasize that this is not for everyone and anyone who disagrees with my assertions is welcome to their opinions but know that I make these assertions with many years of experience under my belt.

Blessings!
 

Truth7t7

Active member
This is not for everyone and for all those who believe that their favorite translation is all they need to understand and interpret Scripture, more power to you. I’m not trying to convert anyone here.

To begin, I want to make clear that I am mainly concerned with the Hebrew and Aramaic text of the OT. And that is particularly true when the subject is OT eschatology. I like the way Gary Stearman put it when he wrote:

“Usually, Biblical prophecy is a lengthy timeline, punctuated by various details that must be carefully connected through long, meticulous and objective study that cuts across the writings of many prophets.”​
Gary Stearman, Prophecy in the News Magazine, 2008​

Anyone who thinks that this can be done as successfully with a favorite English translation as one with an ability to access the text in the original Hebrew is ill informed and lacking an understanding of the liberties taken by translators to make the text conform to often inaccurate presuppositions. These days, I never completely trust a translation in the OT without verifying it with my favorite free Greek / Hebrew interlinear Bible software titled Interlinear Scripture Analyzer (https://www.scripture4all.org/)

There’s a pretty steep learning curve but it is well worth the effort, or at least it completely revolutionized my ability to work with OT prophecy. I will also suggest a couple of books that have been tremendously helpful to me in using the software.

First, I highly recommend Biblical Hebrew: Step by Step Volume. 1 by Menahem Mansoor that’s available on Amazon. In studying it I was able to glean enough about Hebrew grammar to point me in the right direction, so to speak.

I also highly recommend “AMG's Annotated Strong's Dictionaries (Word Study Series) by the now deceased Spiros Zodhiates. It has in-depth definitions of all significant words in the Biblical text that far surpass the old original Strong’s Dictionary. In fact, I highly recommend this book to anyone who is a serious student of Scripture. Of course, this is also available on Amazon.

Again, I emphasize that this is not for everyone and anyone who disagrees with my assertions is welcome to their opinions but know that I make these assertions with many years of experience under my belt.

Blessings!
No need for me to look at the Hebrew or Greek, the 60 King James Translators were scholars beyond comparison, and did a fine job in my Holy Bible in the English language, I also use Strongs Concordance

King James Bible Translators

INTRODUCTION​

At least sixty men were directly involved in the translation of the King James Bible (hereinafter KJB). Most were Translators, while a few were project overseers, revisers and editors. Some served in several roles. Who were these men? What were their backgrounds? What did they share? In what ways were they different? They were a diverse group. While some were born in large cities and towns, most were from small villages scattered throughout England. Several were the children of university graduates, most were not. They were sons of mariners, farmers, school teachers, cordwainers (leather merchants), fletchers (makers of bows and arrows), ministers, brewers, tailors, and aristocrats. All were members of the Church of England, but their religious views ran the gamut. Some were ardent Puritans, others staunch defenders of the religious establishment. Some believed in pre-destination and limited salvation as taught by John Calvin, while others believed in self-determination and universal access to heaven as taught by Jacobus Arminius.
All of the Translators were university graduates. Oxford and Cambridge claimed nearly equal numbers of Translators as alumni. All of the Translators except one were ordained Church of England priests. While several of the Translators had traveled to the Continent, only one had ventured to the New World. Most of the Translators were married men (38 of 60) with families. Most of the Translators spent a significant portion of their career associated with their colleges and universities as fellows, involved in teaching and administration. As fellows, they were not allowed to marry. As a result many delayed marriage until they had established themselves in church office away from the university. When the translation commenced in 1604-1605, the majority of the Translators, 22, were in their forties, 16 men were in their thirties, 15 in their fifties, 3 in their sixties and 3 in their twenties.
One Translator died in his thirties, six in their forties, nineteen in their fifties, sixteen in their sixties, four in their seventies, three in their eighties and one, over one hundred. Nine of the Translators died before the KJB was published in the 1611.
Most of the Translators were in comfortable economic circumstances during and after their time involved in the translation. The association and friendships they developed during the translation project generally advanced their careers. Some of the Translators went on to high church and academic office. Five went on to serve as bishops and two as archbishops.
They all had a familiarity with the ancient languages of Latin, Greek, Hebrew, and often many more. They came on the historical scene at a time when the knowledge of early biblical texts and language was exploding. Such a flowering of interest and expertise was unique. Bible historian, Gordon Campbell, has observed:
The population from which scholars can now be drawn is much larger than in the seventeenth century, but it would be difficult now to bring together a group of more than fifty scholars with the range of languages and knowledge of other disciplines that characterized the KJB Translators. (Bible – The Story of the King James Version 1611-2011 Oxford, Gordon Campbell, Oxford University Press 2010.)
For such a diverse group, they worked together in harmony during a generally contentious time. They had disagreements, to be sure, but they labored on, year after year. There were no "tell all books" published after the fact. Miles Smith remarked in his preface to the KJB, the Translators "were greater in other men's eyes than in their own, and sought truth rather than their own praise". They approached the task of translation with humility, understanding they were standing on the shoulders of giants like William Tyndale. Believers all, the Translators, according to Smith "craved the assistance of God's Spirit by prayer" as they proceeded in their work.
Though almost all were well known within the religious and academic community of the time, their involvement in the translation went largely unnoticed by the public. Their individual and group effort was not the subject of historical inquiry until many years after the fact. As a result, little information about the process of translation survived. The lives of the Translators and sometimes their very identity became obscured with time. In certain instances, the place of their birth and burial is unknown, and their family circumstance in doubt. Until this anniversary year, few could name even one Translator, let alone sixty. The following brief biographies are written in the hope to shed further light on these men who contributed so much.
 

Arkycharlie

Active member
No need for me to look at the Hebrew or Greek, the 60 King James Translators were scholars beyond comparison, and did a fine job in my Holy Bible in the English language, I also use Strongs Concordance
My opening statement said, and I quote.:
This is not for everyone and for all those who believe that their favorite translation is all they need to understand and interpret Scripture, more power to you. I’m not trying to convert anyone here.
Your ignorance is exceeded only by your ego and constant craving for attention around here. You're pitiful but completely unaware of the fact.
 

Truth7t7

Active member
My opening statement said, and I quote.:
I was fully aware of your statement :)

It appears that you dislike participants that oppose your opinions, teachings, and beliefs :unsure:

I shared my opinion as a participant, and it's my opinion a person dosen't need to learn Hebrew or Greek, that's what translator's are for.

Questions?

1.) Do you maintain a college degree in Hebrew or Greek, if so from where?

2.) Would you consider your qualifications comparable to the King James Translators, As Seen In The Link Provided Below?


King James Bible Translators

INTRODUCTION​

At least sixty men were directly involved in the translation of the King James Bible (hereinafter KJB). Most were Translators, while a few were project overseers, revisers and editors. Some served in several roles. Who were these men? What were their backgrounds? What did they share? In what ways were they different? They were a diverse group. While some were born in large cities and towns, most were from small villages scattered throughout England. Several were the children of university graduates, most were not. They were sons of mariners, farmers, school teachers, cordwainers (leather merchants), fletchers (makers of bows and arrows), ministers, brewers, tailors, and aristocrats. All were members of the Church of England, but their religious views ran the gamut. Some were ardent Puritans, others staunch defenders of the religious establishment. Some believed in pre-destination and limited salvation as taught by John Calvin, while others believed in self-determination and universal access to heaven as taught by Jacobus Arminius.

All of the Translators were university graduates. Oxford and Cambridge claimed nearly equal numbers of Translators as alumni. All of the Translators except one were ordained Church of England priests. While several of the Translators had traveled to the Continent, only one had ventured to the New World. Most of the Translators were married men (38 of 60) with families. Most of the Translators spent a significant portion of their career associated with their colleges and universities as fellows, involved in teaching and administration. As fellows, they were not allowed to marry. As a result many delayed marriage until they had established themselves in church office away from the university. When the translation commenced in 1604-1605, the majority of the Translators, 22, were in their forties, 16 men were in their thirties, 15 in their fifties, 3 in their sixties and 3 in their twenties.

One Translator died in his thirties, six in their forties, nineteen in their fifties, sixteen in their sixties, four in their seventies, three in their eighties and one, over one hundred. Nine of the Translators died before the KJB was published in the 1611.

Most of the Translators were in comfortable economic circumstances during and after their time involved in the translation. The association and friendships they developed during the translation project generally advanced their careers. Some of the Translators went on to high church and academic office. Five went on to serve as bishops and two as archbishops.

They all had a familiarity with the ancient languages of Latin, Greek, Hebrew, and often many more. They came on the historical scene at a time when the knowledge of early biblical texts and language was exploding. Such a flowering of interest and expertise was unique. Bible historian, Gordon Campbell, has observed:
The population from which scholars can now be drawn is much larger than in the seventeenth century, but it would be difficult now to bring together a group of more than fifty scholars with the range of languages and knowledge of other disciplines that characterized the KJB Translators. (Bible – The Story of the King James Version 1611-2011 Oxford, Gordon Campbell, Oxford University Press 2010.)
For such a diverse group, they worked together in harmony during a generally contentious time. They had disagreements, to be sure, but they labored on, year after year. There were no "tell all books" published after the fact. Miles Smith remarked in his preface to the KJB, the Translators "were greater in other men's eyes than in their own, and sought truth rather than their own praise". They approached the task of translation with humility, understanding they were standing on the shoulders of giants like William Tyndale. Believers all, the Translators, according to Smith "craved the assistance of God's Spirit by prayer" as
they proceeded in their work.

Though almost all were well known within the religious and academic community of the time, their involvement in the translation went largely unnoticed by the public. Their individual and group effort was not the subject of historical inquiry until many years after the fact. As a result, little information about the process of translation survived. The lives of the Translators and sometimes their very identity became obscured with time. In certain instances, the place of their birth and burial is unknown, and their family circumstance in doubt. Until this anniversary year, few could name even one Translator, let alone sixty. The following brief biographies are written in the hope to shed further light on these men who contributed so much.
 
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Arkycharlie

Active member
You answer my question and then I'll answer yours. This word, עם, has 2 possible meanings. What are they and how does one distinguish between the 2 both in reading as well as spoken? Can your trusty KJV tell you that? You're totally ignorant of the fact that the intended meaning of this particular word is critical to a right understanding of one of the most critical prophecies in Scripture and the KJV gets it wrong, in a certain sense. But that's because the Masoretes got it wrong. But the LXX got it right. You follow me?
 

Truth7t7

Active member
You answer my question and then I'll answer yours. This word, עם, has 2 possible meanings. What are they and how does one distinguish between the 2 both in reading as well as spoken? Can your trusty KJV tell you that? You're totally ignorant of the fact that the intended meaning of this particular word is critical to a right understanding of one of the most critical prophecies in Scripture and the KJV gets it wrong, in a certain sense. But that's because the Masoretes got it wrong. But the LXX got it right. You follow me?
Questions?

1.) Do you maintain a college degree in Hebrew or Greek, if so from where?

2.) Would you consider your qualifications comparable to the King James Translators, As Seen In The Link Provided Below?


King James Bible Translators

INTRODUCTION​

At least sixty men were directly involved in the translation of the King James Bible (hereinafter KJB). Most were Translators, while a few were project overseers, revisers and editors. Some served in several roles. Who were these men? What were their backgrounds? What did they share? In what ways were they different? They were a diverse group. While some were born in large cities and towns, most were from small villages scattered throughout England. Several were the children of university graduates, most were not. They were sons of mariners, farmers, school teachers, cordwainers (leather merchants), fletchers (makers of bows and arrows), ministers, brewers, tailors, and aristocrats. All were members of the Church of England, but their religious views ran the gamut. Some were ardent Puritans, others staunch defenders of the religious establishment. Some believed in pre-destination and limited salvation as taught by John Calvin, while others believed in self-determination and universal access to heaven as taught by Jacobus Arminius.

All of the Translators were university graduates. Oxford and Cambridge claimed nearly equal numbers of Translators as alumni. All of the Translators except one were ordained Church of England priests. While several of the Translators had traveled to the Continent, only one had ventured to the New World. Most of the Translators were married men (38 of 60) with families. Most of the Translators spent a significant portion of their career associated with their colleges and universities as fellows, involved in teaching and administration. As fellows, they were not allowed to marry. As a result many delayed marriage until they had established themselves in church office away from the university. When the translation commenced in 1604-1605, the majority of the Translators, 22, were in their forties, 16 men were in their thirties, 15 in their fifties, 3 in their sixties and 3 in their twenties.

One Translator died in his thirties, six in their forties, nineteen in their fifties, sixteen in their sixties, four in their seventies, three in their eighties and one, over one hundred. Nine of the Translators died before the KJB was published in the 1611.

Most of the Translators were in comfortable economic circumstances during and after their time involved in the translation. The association and friendships they developed during the translation project generally advanced their careers. Some of the Translators went on to high church and academic office. Five went on to serve as bishops and two as archbishops.

They all had a familiarity with the ancient languages of Latin, Greek, Hebrew, and often many more. They came on the historical scene at a time when the knowledge of early biblical texts and language was exploding. Such a flowering of interest and expertise was unique. Bible historian, Gordon Campbell, has observed:
The population from which scholars can now be drawn is much larger than in the seventeenth century, but it would be difficult now to bring together a group of more than fifty scholars with the range of languages and knowledge of other disciplines that characterized the KJB Translators. (Bible – The Story of the King James Version 1611-2011 Oxford, Gordon Campbell, Oxford University Press 2010.)
For such a diverse group, they worked together in harmony during a generally contentious time. They had disagreements, to be sure, but they labored on, year after year. There were no "tell all books" published after the fact. Miles Smith remarked in his preface to the KJB, the Translators "were greater in other men's eyes than in their own, and sought truth rather than their own praise". They approached the task of translation with humility, understanding they were standing on the shoulders of giants like William Tyndale. Believers all, the Translators, according to Smith "craved the assistance of God's Spirit by prayer" as
they proceeded in their work.

Though almost all were well known within the religious and academic community of the time, their involvement in the translation went largely unnoticed by the public. Their individual and group effort was not the subject of historical inquiry until many years after the fact. As a result, little information about the process of translation survived. The lives of the Translators and sometimes their very identity became obscured with time. In certain instances, the place of their birth and burial is unknown, and their family circumstance in doubt. Until this anniversary year, few could name even one Translator, let alone sixty. The following brief biographies are written in the hope to shed further light on these men who contributed so much.
 

Arkycharlie

Active member
Your ignorance is exceeded only by your ego. I started this thread just to try and be helpful for those who might have an interest in the subject. I didn't expect much in the way of responses which was fine by me. I shared my own personal experience as to how helpful my suggestions had been for me. I did not for a moment expect to be attacked, but in the back of my mind I suspected that you might have to stick your big fat nose into it. When you pontificate on matters in which you have zero experience you make a fool out of yourself but are too uninformed to realize it. And truthfully, I don’t think for a second that you have the intellect to be able to do what I’ve done. That’s the pity! But perhaps there’s some truth in the old adage, ignorance is bliss. You must be in ecstasy!
 
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