Did God Initially Create Adam With A Sin Nature?

Sketo

Active member
Thinking outside the box (Part 1)

I know this is an odd question, and your knee-jerk reaction is to answer with an emphatic NO... but consider this...

Does God have the natural “ability” to sin?

Was Adam made in the image of God?

Where did Adams “ability” to sin come from?

Did God make Adam with the natural “ability” to sin?

So again... Did God Initially Create Adam With A Sin Nature... unlike God’s nature?


A few extra thought provoking questions on the subject.

What if we have been thinking about it all wrong?

If we call it an “ability”... does it make God “less able” than man?

Why would God create us with an “ability” that He considers a negative thing not allowed in heaven?

What if it is actually a “disability” and God simply does not have the “disability” to sin?

Shouldn’t it be called a “disability” sense God does not have it?

If God created us with a natural “disability” what keeps us from being “totally disabled”?


I thought this would make for an interesting conversation.
What are you guys thoughts?




P.S. - If God is not “disabled”, does this mean Satan is “Totally Disabled”?
 

CrowCross

Active member
Thinking outside the box (Part 1)

I know this is an odd question, and your knee-jerk reaction is to answer with an emphatic NO... but consider this...

Does God have the natural “ability” to sin?

Was Adam made in the image of God?

Where did Adams “ability” to sin come from?

Did God make Adam with the natural “ability” to sin?

So again... Did God Initially Create Adam With A Sin Nature... unlike God’s nature?


A few extra thought provoking questions on the subject.

What if we have been thinking about it all wrong?

If we call it an “ability”... does it make God “less able” than man?

Why would God create us with an “ability” that He considers a negative thing not allowed in heaven?

What if it is actually a “disability” and God simply does not have the “disability” to sin?

Shouldn’t it be called a “disability” sense God does not have it?

If God created us with a natural “disability” what keeps us from being “totally disabled”?


I thought this would make for an interesting conversation.
What are you guys thoughts?




P.S. - If God is not “disabled”, does this mean Satan is “Totally Disabled”?
The answer is no. When adam fell he received the sin nature as well as all of his progeny.

Was Adam created with the ability to sin? That answer is yes. Did Adam have to sin? No.
 

Sketo

Active member
The answer is no. When adam fell he received the sin nature as well as all of his progeny.
You say he received the “sin nature” after he sinned.
What’s the difference between Adams “sin nature”, after the fall, and the nature he had before the fall?
Was Adam created with the ability to sin? That answer is yes.
“Ability” seams to suggest that it makes him “more able” than God.
Why do you consider it an “ability” instead of a “disability”?
 

CrowCross

Active member
You say he received the “sin nature” after he sinned.
What’s the difference between Adams “sin nature”, after the fall, and the nature he had before the fall?

“Ability” seams to suggest that it makes him “more able” than God.
Why do you consider it an “ability” instead of a “disability”?

The sin nature says we will sin. Adam didn't have to sin as he could have told the serpent to go away.

A disability says Adam will sin. No matter what. Adam had the ability to sin...just like the fallen angels. We have the disability because we are a fallen race.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
sketo

Did God Initially Create Adam With A Sin Nature?​


Yes, but it was just innocent at first, but its sinfulness would be revealed by the law God gave them.

Rom 5 20

Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
 

TomFL

Well-known member
sketo



Yes, but it was just innocent at first, but its sinfulness would be revealed by the law God gave them.

Rom 5 20

Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
No

God's creation was very good

Gen. 1:31 —KJV
“¶ And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.”
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
No

God's creation was very good

Gen. 1:31 —KJV
“¶ And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.”
Adam was very good for God's Redempive from sin purpose. That is why He made Adam and Eve with a sin nature so when tempted they would sin
 

Sketo

Active member
That is why He made Adam and Eve with a sin nature so when tempted they would sin
What would be the difference between the initial nature of Adam before the fall and Adams nature after the fall?

And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, "You may surely eat of every tree of the garden, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die." - Genesis 2:16-17
 
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Sketo

Active member
That is why He made Adam and Eve with a sin nature so when tempted they would sin
This seams to suggest God had a purpose in the way he made Adam.

Do you also believe that the combination of
this design of Adam’s and Eve’s nature,
with the design of The Garden of Eden,
and Gods clear command in Gen 2:16-17
in and of themselves alone apart from Satan’s involvement
was plenty enough for them to show their obedience and Love for God?

In other words was Satan necessary in the Garden, for Adam and Eve to show obedience and love for God or was the design insufficient without Satan being brought in?

Or do you believe that Satan was intentionally brought in to the system to bring about the purpose in your quote above “so when tempted they would sin”?
 
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brightfame52

Well-known member
Sketo
.What would be the difference between the initial nature of Adam before the fall and Adams nature after the fall?
Initially Adam nature was innocent, after that his nature would progressively show it's sinfulness .
 

bigthinker

Active member
Thinking outside the box (Part 1)

I know this is an odd question, and your knee-jerk reaction is to answer with an emphatic NO... but consider this...

Does God have the natural “ability” to sin?

Was Adam made in the image of God?

Where did Adams “ability” to sin come from?

Did God make Adam with the natural “ability” to sin?

So again... Did God Initially Create Adam With A Sin Nature... unlike God’s nature?


A few extra thought provoking questions on the subject.

What if we have been thinking about it all wrong?

If we call it an “ability”... does it make God “less able” than man?

Why would God create us with an “ability” that He considers a negative thing not allowed in heaven?

What if it is actually a “disability” and God simply does not have the “disability” to sin?

Shouldn’t it be called a “disability” sense God does not have it?

If God created us with a natural “disability” what keeps us from being “totally disabled”?


I thought this would make for an interesting conversation.
What are you guys thoughts?




P.S. - If God is not “disabled”, does this mean Satan is “Totally Disabled”?
It seems the obvious answer is yes.
Notice that Adam did not have a number of (infinite, actually) other unintended characteristics such as wings, the ability to read other minds, to see through walls, to move objects with his mind etc.
It would seem that Adam was made precisely as all-powerful, all-knowing God intended.
Otherwise, God's meandering cosmic drama wouldn't have worked.
 

Sketo

Active member
It would seem that Adam was made precisely as all-powerful, all-knowing God intended.
I agree it shows Gods great attention to detail.
Otherwise, God's meandering cosmic drama wouldn't have worked.
It seems to be vary careful and precise planning on Gods part.

Do you think it could have “worked” without Satan being brought into the Garden... or was that part of God’s design also?

I ask because it seems to me God could have done many other different things with Satan, like confine him to Planet X on the other side of the universe, but instead he gave Satan direct access to the Garden, in turn direct access to Adam even.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
sketo

This seams to suggest God had a purpose in the way he made Adam.

Exactly He did. Its related to redemption in Christ. Everything was made for that Col 1 14- 16

14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

In other words was Satan necessary in the Garden, for Adam and Eve to show obedience and love for God or was the design insufficient without Satan being brought in?

I think thats forbidden territory to hold Gods Wisdom at Bay like that. We need to embrace what God has revealed to be His Wisdom. All was established by Gods Wisdom, and all the parts thereof Prov 3 19

The Lord by wisdom hath founded the earth; by understanding hath he established the heavens.

Or do you believe that Satan was intentionally brought in to the system to bring about the purpose in your quote above “so when tempted they would sin”?

Yes, satan was created according to Gods Eternal Purpose in Christ Eph 3 10-11

10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
 

bigthinker

Active member
I agree it shows Gods great attention to detail.

It seems to be vary careful and precise planning on Gods part.

Do you think it could have “worked” without Satan being brought into the Garden...
Do you mean the serpent?
or was that part of God’s design also?
If God is all powerful and all knowing, how could ANYTHING happen that wasn't sanctioned by God?
I ask because it seems to me God could have done many other different things with Satan, like confine him to Planet X on the other side of the universe, but instead he gave Satan direct access to the Garden, in turn direct access to Adam even.
The text doesn't say the serpent is Satan. Also, Satan is known as the "king of lies" but what the serpent told Eve the truth. So I'm not certain they're the same character.
 
The answer is no. When adam fell he received the sin nature as well as all of his progeny.

Was Adam created with the ability to sin? That answer is yes. Did Adam have to sin? No.
What scriptures state Adam "received"a sin nature? I'm still wondering where this doctrine comes from.
 
Do you mean the serpent?

If God is all powerful and all knowing, how could ANYTHING happen that wasn't sanctioned by God?

The text doesn't say the serpent is Satan. Also, Satan is known as the "king of lies" but what the serpent told Eve the truth. So I'm not certain they're the same character.
Rev 20:2 seems to call the devil the serpent.
 

zerinus

Active member
Thinking outside the box (Part 1)
All your thinking is being done in the box, not out of the box. If you could learn to think out of the Calvinistic box for a change, all your theological problems would disappear.
I know this is an odd question, and your knee-jerk reaction is to answer with an emphatic NO... but consider this...

Does God have the natural “ability” to sin?
The question is a bit ambiguous and somewhat meaningless. What do you mean by "natural ability to sin"? Is there such a thing as an "unnatural ability to sin"? The only legitimate question that could be asked would be if God has the freedom to choose to sin if he wanted to? The answer is Yes, but he never wants to because he cannot be tempted to, "God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man" (James 1:13).
Was Adam made in the image of God?
Yes.
Where did Adams “ability” to sin come from?
The same wrong question. Man has the same freedom to commit sin that God has; the only difference is that man can be tempted, whereas God cannot be.
Did God make Adam with the natural “ability” to sin?
See above. Is there an "unnatural ability to sin"?
So again... Did God Initially Create Adam With A Sin Nature... unlike God’s nature?
Meaningless line of questioning, see above.
A few extra thought provoking questions on the subject.

What if we have been thinking about it all wrong?
Calvinists definitely have been!
If we call it an “ability”... does it make God “less able” than man?
"Ability" or "inability" are the wrong words to use, see above.
Why would God create us with an “ability” that He considers a negative thing not allowed in heaven?
See above. In heaven Satan is not able to enter, therefore he is not able to tempt anyone to sin. Revelation chapters 20-21 explain how that happens.
What if it is actually a “disability” and God simply does not have the “disability” to sin?
You have a skewed and distorted way of looking at it, which causes all your theological problems. If you would throw your Calvinistic lenses away, and start reading the Bible without your Calvinistic lenses on for a change, you will start getting the correct meaning out of it a lot better and more quickly than you are able to do now.
Shouldn’t it be called a “disability” sense God does not have it?

If God created us with a natural “disability” what keeps us from being “totally disabled”?
Asking the wrong questions will never lead you to the right answers.
 
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Sketo

Active member
The text doesn't say the serpent is Satan. Also, Satan is known as the "king of lies" but what the serpent told Eve the truth.
That’s an interesting thought.

And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, "You may surely eat of every tree of the garden, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die." - Genesis 2:16-17

in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die

Was God speaking about physical death or spiritual death here?

It would seem to be a lie if it is speaking of a physical death because “in the day they ate of it” they did not physically die...
and that would render the word “surely” meaningless!

This is why I lean towards “you shall surely die” to mean spiritual death instead.


And the woman said to the serpent, "We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden, but God said, 'You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.'"But the serpent said to the woman, "You will not surely die. - Genesis 3:2-4

Here it seams that the serpent may be “craftily” speaking truth to the woman when he says “You will not surely die” if he is twisting it to mean physical death when God actually meant spiritual death.

In that case God is telling the truth but the serpent is twisting the truth to refer to something God is not!

What are your thoughts?
 
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