Did God Initially Create Adam With A Sin Nature?

[CrowCross]

There‘s a saying I read once on another Christian forum, “Where the Bible doesn’t speak, neither should we.” So, regardless which side of this we fall on, it’s not a hill worth dying on, as we cannot know with 100% certainty he was or wasn’t there. It seems he was as it says she ate and then gave to him. So, it appears he was there, but it could be she ate and then went and gave to him. I just don’t know which is true. I believe he was there, but realize I don’t know with 100% certainty he was.

I agree 100%. But it can be fun speculating.

 

[CrowCross]

Augustine taught the following:

Pre-fall	1) able to sin, able not to sin (posse peccare, posse non peccare);
post-fall	2) not able not to sin (non posse non peccare);
regenerated man	3) able not to sin (posse non peccare);
glorified man	4) unable to sin (non posse peccare).

#3 is the one I have a problem with. I agree with #3, but somehow we seem to find a way to sin.

1 Cor 10:13 No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.

 

[armylngst]

Not directly but the serpent deceived Eve. I've considered the same theory and can agree with it.

There is some debate if Adam was there when Eve was talking to the serpent.

The way God's punishment goes, it is harder to tell. Adam didn't seem to be surprised with the serpent answer, and neither did God. It would place more emphasis on Adam loving Eve if the serpent wasn't around, and he just took the fruit and ate it, realizing she had.

 

[armylngst]

I believe by Adams submitting to his wife's giving him of the fruit, also showed that his nature was as sinful as hers, for she came out of him. The same properties in eves flesh that appealed to the serpent's enticement were in Adam as well. Of course this whole scene was according to Him who worketh all things after the counsel of His own will !

I don't see it that way, because, unlike Eve, Adam walked with God every day and spoke with God. He allowed Eve, I believe from love, to come between him and God, because he knew that God would probably destroy Eve. I mean, if Adam had not sinned, Eve would have been out, and Adam would have to deal with someone new. (I say that more from a possible viewpoint of Adam). In his mind, he may not have wanted someone new.

 

[brightfame52]

I don't see it that way, because, unlike Eve, Adam walked with God every day and spoke with God. He allowed Eve, I believe from love, to come between him and God, because he knew that God would probably destroy Eve. I mean, if Adam had not sinned, Eve would have been out, and Adam would have to deal with someone new. (I say that more from a possible viewpoint of Adam). In his mind, he may not have wanted someone new.

But Adam did sin and obviously loved Eve above God. That was because his nature was evil.

 

[armylngst]

But Adam did sin and obviously loved Eve above God. That was because his nature was evil.

You realize that if Adam's nature was evil before Adam sinned, then it would be because God gave Adam a nature that was evil? (Which He did not.) Adam was created innocent, and remained innocent until the moment he sinned. The Bible is clear that their eyes were not opened until they ate of the fruit. Everything they did before then (everything) was not a sin. God really meant it when He gave them all liberty except for that one thing...eating the fruit. He didn't even call Eve out as a liar after she misstated what God actually said to the serpent. So, don't get the idea that Adam had a nature that was evil before he sinned. He did not.

 

[brightfame52]

You realize that if Adam's nature was evil before Adam sinned, then it would be because God gave Adam a nature that was evil? (Which He did not.) Adam was created innocent, and remained innocent until the moment he sinned. The Bible is clear that their eyes were not opened until they ate of the fruit. Everything they did before then (everything) was not a sin. God really meant it when He gave them all liberty except for that one thing...eating the fruit. He didn't even call Eve out as a liar after she misstated what God actually said to the serpent. So, don't get the idea that Adam had a nature that was evil before he sinned. He did not.

Yes God gave Adam a nature that was evil in accordance with God's Redempive purpose in Christ Jesus established before the world began. Adam was created for that purpose.

 

[brightfame52]

You realize that if Adam's nature was evil before Adam sinned, then it would be because God gave Adam a nature that was evil? (Which He did not.) Adam was created innocent, and remained innocent until the moment he sinned. The Bible is clear that their eyes were not opened until they ate of the fruit. Everything they did before then (everything) was not a sin. God really meant it when He gave them all liberty except for that one thing...eating the fruit. He didn't even call Eve out as a liar after she misstated what God actually said to the serpent. So, don't get the idea that Adam had a nature that was evil before he sinned. He did not.

Adams evil nature was innocent until he sinned and manifested that it was evil . When he sinned he realized he was evil

 

[armylngst]

Adams evil nature was innocent until he sinned and manifested that it was evil . When he sinned he realized he was evil

So he realized that God, by extension was also evil? God was pretty clear when He said that everything was good. With the definition of good in this usage, God lied if Adam had an evil nature. Adam's nature was completely neutral. No evil. And he was innocent, not understanding until he ate of the fruit and his eyes were open. The comments you have made in this has for me undermined all the comments you have made on other threads, because it justifies those people who say you believe God created evil, and therefore is evil. Adam was completely neutral, which is what made his sin that much worse. He had no propensity for evil, no evil nature, not and evil bone in his body, but for what ever reason, he took the fruit and took a bite. At that moment, what God had created was corrupted.

 

[brightfame52]

So he realized that God, by extension was also evil? God was pretty clear when He said that everything was good. With the definition of good in this usage, God lied if Adam had an evil nature. Adam's nature was completely neutral. No evil. And he was innocent, not understanding until he ate of the fruit and his eyes were open. The comments you have made in this has for me undermined all the comments you have made on other threads, because it justifies those people who say you believe God created evil, and therefore is evil. Adam was completely neutral, which is what made his sin that much worse. He had no propensity for evil, no evil nature, not and evil bone in his body, but for what ever reason, he took the fruit and took a bite. At that moment, what God had created was corrupted.

You came to a erroneous conclusion. God made Adam in accordance with a Holy Redempive purpose in Christ, God did that out of His Love in Christ.

 

[brightfame52]

So he realized that God, by extension was also evil? God was pretty clear when He said that everything was good. With the definition of good in this usage, God lied if Adam had an evil nature. Adam's nature was completely neutral. No evil. And he was innocent, not understanding until he ate of the fruit and his eyes were open. The comments you have made in this has for me undermined all the comments you have made on other threads, because it justifies those people who say you believe God created evil, and therefore is evil. Adam was completely neutral, which is what made his sin that much worse. He had no propensity for evil, no evil nature, not and evil bone in his body, but for what ever reason, he took the fruit and took a bite. At that moment, what God had created was corrupted.

Everything was made good yeah very good in accordance with God's Redemptive Purpose in Christ Jesus. That was God's Eternal Purpose Eph 3:11

11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

 

[armylngst]

You came to a erroneous conclusion. God made Adam in accordance with a Holy Redempive purpose in Christ, God did that out of His Love in Christ.

No, my conclusion is not erroneous. God did not create an imperfect Adam. He created the exact Adam that I said, even with that Holy Redemptive purpose in mind. God did not create a handicapped Adam, an imperfect Adam, an Adam with an evil nature. We are talking about God. You know, the one who caused water to flow out of a rock, in a desert. Adam was completely neutral, which gives meaning to redemption and bringing things back to how they were before Adam sinned. With your presented belief, that means we all have evil nature, but luckily it is innocent, until we once again sin against God? Am I getting this right? Adam's nature was not corrupted, was not evil, until sin entered the world and corrupted it. The Bible is clear that their eyes were not open until they bit into the fruit.

 

[brightfame52]

No, my conclusion is not erroneous. God did not create an imperfect Adam. He created the exact Adam that I said, even with that Holy Redemptive purpose in mind. God did not create a handicapped Adam, an imperfect Adam, an Adam with an evil nature. We are talking about God. You know, the one who caused water to flow out of a rock, in a desert. Adam was completely neutral, which gives meaning to redemption and bringing things back to how they were before Adam sinned. With your presented belief, that means we all have evil nature, but luckily it is innocent, until we once again sin against God? Am I getting this right? Adam's nature was not corrupted, was not evil, until sin entered the world and corrupted it. The Bible is clear that their eyes were not open until they bit into the fruit.

Yes u did. And Adam was far from perfect are you kidding me. Adam was innocent until the law came and exposed his evil natural heart. Adam as I believe was elected to Salvation found his perfection in Christ, the coming seed of the woman. In Him was Adam complete.

 

[armylngst]

Yes u did. And Adam was far from perfect are you kidding me. Adam was innocent until the law came and exposed his evil natural heart. Adam as I believe was elected to Salvation found his perfection in Christ, the coming seed of the woman. In Him was Adam complete.

So God lied. Got it. And God looked upon all He created, and, well, it was not good. It was not perfect. There was a blemish. God didn't mention it though.

 

[brightfame52]

So God lied. Got it. And God looked upon all He created, and, well, it was not good. It was not perfect. There was a blemish. God didn't mention it though.

No God did not lie. Everything was created perfectly for His Redemptive purpose in Christ Jesus. Do you know what Redemptive purpose mean? What is Redemption?

 

[CrowCross]

Yes God gave Adam a nature that was evil in accordance with God's Redempive purpose in Christ Jesus established before the world began. Adam was created for that purpose.

I gotta disagree.

 

[brightfame52]

I gotta disagree.

That is fine. But you must don't understand that Adam needed to be born again don't you. Also he was created for a redempive purpose centered in Christ.

 

[CrowCross]

That is fine. But you must don't understand that Adam needed to be born again don't you. Also he was created for a redempive purpose centered in Christ.

Chapter and verse....no speculation please.

 

[brightfame52]

Chapter and verse....no speculation please.

Flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of God. 1 Cor 15 50

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

 

[armylngst]

No God did not lie. Everything was created perfectly for His Redemptive purpose in Christ Jesus. Do you know what Redemptive purpose mean? What is Redemption?

You fail to understand. Adam was exactly what God made him to be, perfect, and neutral. He had no evil nature, he had no righteous nature, perfectly neutral. He could only do good, since the only law God had in the garden was to stay about from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. That's it. When Adam sinned, that sin corrupted his nature, and thus the sin nature of man was born. It is as simple as that. All of this was in keeping with God's plan, but we should not speculate any further than what scripture has provided. To do that, as you have, is to bring God into question, especially if you are very wrong. Just understand that Adam was not evil, had no evil nature in him when created, for he was created in the very image of God, so...I don't think you really want to go there. He walked with God, talked with God, he would have skewered the serpent. Yet, Eve is the one who met the serpent. The only thing that we can be sure of with how Genesis shares the tale, is that Adam sinned with both eyes open. He was not tempted by the serpent.