Did God Predestine Me To Add This Thread?

Theo1689

Well-known member
Are you saying God knows what we will choose given certain circumstances and therefore

So man makes all the choices, decisions, and determinations, and God is merely a passive spectator who knows what we do.

So why does God get all the glory, instead of man?
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Deut. 30:19 "I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live"

What does that have to do with "believing" or "the gospel"?

Rom 10:9 "IF you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."

Where does that say anything about "choice"?

Compare:

"IF you grow tall, then you can become a star basketball player."

Does that magical word, "if", mean we can "choose" what height we will be?

Sorry, but your grasping at imaginary straws, and tilting at windmills.

Saying we have a choice doesn't negate that God also chooses.

You haven't demonstrated that we HAVE a "choice", regarding "believing" or the "gospel".

And if we allegedly "choose" to believe, then how can God's "choice" change that in any way? Sadly, your blasphemous gospel makes Man sovereign, and God impotent.

No thanks...

God chooses and we choose as well, both are biblical.

Nope, "we choose [to believe]" is NOT the least bit Biblical.
"We choose" [to accept the gospel]" is NOT the least bit Biblical.
 

rossh

Well-known member
and why is that ?
The point is that He was not tainted with the sin nature of Adam and so, He alone was perfect and an acceptable Offering for the Sacrifice for Sin. Lok at Lev 6:
24 ADONAI said to Moshe,

25 "Tell Aharon and his sons, 'This is the law for the sin offering: the sin offering is to be slaughtered before ADONAI in the place where the burnt offering is slaughtered; it is especially holy.

26 The cohen who offers it for sin is to eat it -it is to be eaten in a holy place, in the courtyard of the tent of meeting.

27 Whatever touches its flesh will become holy; if any of its blood splashes on any item of clothing, you are to wash it in a holy place.

ask, why did the Messiah have to DIE for US ?
 

JNelson

Well-known member
So man makes all the choices, decisions, and determinations, and God is merely a passive spectator who knows what we do.

So why does God get all the glory, instead of man?
I've never said God does not choose. Both God and man choose
 

rossh

Well-known member
Deut. 30:19 "I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live"

Rom 10:9 "IF you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."


Saying we have a choice doesn't negate that God also chooses. God chooses and we choose as well, both are biblical.
Amen, yes indeed we all have choices.. to say differently is to try to blame others as well as other issues.
 

shnarkle

Well-known member
I've never said God does not choose. Both God and man choose
A god who can choose is a capricious god. I can choose the Caesar salad over the tossed salad with blue cheese dressing on a whim. I can choose to take a short cut while risking running into a road closure, but a god who makes this choice can only do so in ignorance.

Therefore, omniscience precludes the possibility of choice or free will. An omniscient God cannot have free will. Am omniscient god cannot choose to between doing the wise thing and doing something foolish or idiotic.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
I've never said God does not choose. Both God and man choose

I never said that you said "God does not choose".
Kindly lose the straw-man.
First you straw-manned with "puppets".
Then you straw-manned with "God does not choose".
Stop making arguments I never presented.

Your position of "both choose" is theoretically impossible, and anti-Biblical.

Please provide ANY Scripture which allegedly teaches:

a) "man chooses to believe", or
b) "man chooses to accep the gospel".

Remember, YOU were one who claimed that EVERYTHING you belivee is Scriptural.
Now's the time to put up or shut up.
 

JNelson

Well-known member
A god who can choose is a capricious god. I can choose the Caesar salad over the tossed salad with blue cheese dressing on a whim. I can choose to take a short cut while risking running into a road closure, but a god who makes this choice can only do so in ignorance.

Therefore, omniscience precludes the possibility of choice or free will. An omniscient God cannot have free will. Am omniscient god cannot choose to between doing the wise thing and doing something foolish or idiotic.
So neither man or God can choose?
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Are you ever going to correctly define choice??

You've already demanded a bogus definition, so any definition I offer, you will completely reject, so it's a waste of time.

Further, I refuse to allow you to derail the discussion AWAY from your bogus claims, by trying to put me on the defensive.

YOU claimed that EVERYTHING you believe is SCRIPTURAL.
So I'm STILL waiting for you to show Scripture which teaches we "choose to believe", or "choose to accept the gospel".

I'm guessing you already realize that your position is unBiblical, and are unwiling to admit you made a mistake, which is why you are running away.
 

JNelson

Well-known member
You've already demanded a bogus definition, so any definition I offer, you will completely reject, so it's a waste of time.

Further, I refuse to allow you to derail the discussion AWAY from your bogus claims, by trying to put me on the defensive.

YOU claimed that EVERYTHING you believe is SCRIPTURAL.
So I'm STILL waiting for you to show Scripture which teaches we "choose to believe", or "choose to accept the gospel".

I'm guessing you already realize that your position is unBiblical, and are unwiling to admit you made a mistake, which is why you are running away.
How is asking you to correctly define choice putting you on the defensive??

Here's how I got my definition.

The greek word for choose/choice is ἐκλέγομαι which as per Mounce's Greek Dictionary means, "to pick out; in NT to choose, select"

Choose is the verb and choice is the noun

So the best english word that defines the greek word ἐκλέγομαι is choice/choose which in english, as per the webster dictionary means, " the act of choosing : the act of picking or deciding between two or more possibilities"

So please, go ahead and correctly define choice.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
How is asking you to correctly define choice putting you on the defensive??

You want me to "correctly" define choice.
Once I give you the definition, how do you determine whether it is "correct"?

Here's how I got my definition.

The greek word for choose/choice is ἐκλέγομαι which as per Mounce's Greek Dictionary means, "to pick out; in NT to choose, select"

I agree.
So kindly cease the red herring that *I* have to "define" words in this discussion.

And please notice that his definition did NOT include, "and all the choices had to be possible".

Choose is the verb and choice is the noun

Wow.
Thank you for stating the obvious.
Do you have any more stall tactics at your disposal?

So the best english word that defines the greek word ἐκλέγομαι is choice which in english, as per the webster dictionary means, " the act of choosing : the act of picking or deciding between two or more possibilities"

So now you are SWITCHING from Mounce's definition, to a different definition?!
Why the dishonest tactics?

So please, go ahead and correctly define choice.

I agree with Mounce.
And he disagrees with you.
(And FYI, Mounce is an accomplished Greek scholar, and a Greek professor, and the one from whom I learned Koine Greek. So you're not looking good at this juncture.)


Now, I'm STILL waiting for YOU to provide Scripture which teaches "we choose to believe", or "we choose to accept the gospel".

After all, YOU were the one who boasted that EVERYTHING you believe is SCRIPTURAL.
So now is the time for you to put up or shut up.
 

JNelson

Well-known member
You want me to "correctly" define choice.
Once I give you the definition, how do you determine whether it is "correct"?



I agree.
So kindly cease the red herring that *I* have to "define" words in this discussion.

And please notice that his definition did NOT include, "and all the choices had to be possible".



Wow.
Thank you for stating the obvious.
Do you have any more stall tactics at your disposal?



So now you are SWITCHING from Mounce's definition, to a different definition?!
Why the dishonest tactics?



I agree with Mounce.
And he disagrees with you.
(And FYI, Mounce is an accomplished Greek scholar, and a Greek professor, and the one from whom I learned Koine Greek. So you're not looking good at this juncture.)


Now, I'm STILL waiting for YOU to provide Scripture which teaches "we choose to believe", or "we choose to accept the gospel".

After all, YOU were the one who boasted that EVERYTHING you believe is SCRIPTURAL.
So now is the time for you to put up or shut up.
Bill Mounce says the best English word for ἐκλέγομαι is choice/choose. So what does choose/choice mean? You can’t define a word by simply repeating the word.
 

rossh

Well-known member
Just like the Father, the Son is Impeccable.
well yes of course and, this is yet another reason WHY Yeshua, Gods only flesh and blood Son, was made to be our Messiah by His Death and resurrection by His innocence . Adam, a man sinned and so a man also had to die to pay sin, as in the wages of SIN is Death!
 
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Theo1689

Well-known member
Bill Mounce says the best English word for ἐκλέγομαι is choice/choose. So what does choose/choice mean? You can’t define a word by simply repeating the word.

This is getting tedius.
I can read Koine Greek, and I'm guessing you can't.
In fact, I know you can't, becuase "εκλεγομαι" CANNOT mean "choice/choose", since as you pointed out, "choice" is a noun, and "choose" is a verb. So you again have no clue what you're talking about.

"εκλεγομαι" means "choose" (it's a verb, not a noun).

So for the (what? FOURTH time now), please quote the Bible verse which teaches that man "εκλεγομαι" to believe, or that man "εκλεγομαι" to accept the gospel.

Still waiting...
 

Sketo

Well-known member
You failed to understand my analogy. God preprogrammed every to play out a certain way and thats how its happening.

Your “analogy” missed the mark by miles and miles!

Your analogy is simply 1+20 = 21 which is only true if you remove 2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9+10+11+12+13+14+15+16+17+18+19 from the equation!

Your reduction does not fit biblical reality or Calvinism!
 

shnarkle

Well-known member
So neither man or God can choose?
Only those who are ignorant can make a choice. Human beings are not omniscient so it is only through this inherent ignorance that this illusion of free will can exist.

The numerous factors that influence how one reacts are what determines the effect or outcome. If we knew all of the factors that influence a person, we would know exactly what they would do under any and all circumstances.

Again, we see how the hypnotist, mentalist, etc. uses these observations to manipulate a person's will. People are shocked at how easy they are manipulated by subliminal prompts. With God it's all subliminal. He sustains the whole world, and knows exactly how each and every person will react to each and every prompt presented. We're no different than rats in a maze.
 

rossh

Well-known member
Bill Mounce says the best English word for ἐκλέγομαι is choice/choose. So what does choose/choice mean? You can’t define a word by simply repeating the word.
Good point but ??? is that free will choice or false religion cultish choice or uninformed choice or misinterpreted choice etc; ?
 
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