Did God Predestine Me To Add This Thread?

Theo1689

Well-known member
well I guess that you are right but try reading ALL of your Bible or, get the second half of the one you now use..

How very insulting of you.
Do you think "insulting" is a Chrsitian virtue, "fruit of the Spirit"?
(I don't.)

Ro 6:14 For sin will not have authority over you; because you are not under legalism but under grace. 15 Therefore, what conclusion should we reach? "Let's go on sinning, because we're not under legalism but under grace"? Heaven forbid! 16 Don't you know that if you present yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, then, of the one whom you are obeying, you are slaves - whether of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to being made righteous?

17 By God's grace, you, who were once slaves to sin,

"By God's grace"?
What translation is this?

KJV: "But God be thanked"
ESV: "But thanks be to God"
NET: "But thanks be to God"
NASB "But thanks be to God"

Why should God be thanked, if it was our imaginary "free will"?
Or how can it be "by God's grace", if it was by our imaginary "free will"?

obeyed from your heart the pattern of teaching to which you were exposed; 18 and after you had been set free [passive] from sin, you became enslaved to righteousness. 19 (I am using popular language because your human nature is so weak.) For just as you used to offer your various parts as slaves to impurity and lawlessness, which led to more lawlessness; so now offer your various parts as slaves to righteousness, which leads to being made holy, set apart for God.

Thank you for quoting one of my favourite passages.
Unfortunately for you, it supports my view, and refutes yours.

(Btw, next time you should probably ASK me if I'm familiar with a passage of the Bible, rather than insultingly and ignorantly ASSUMING I'm not familiar with it. It's that "charity" concept that Christ like to speak about. Just sayin'...)

1 Thes 5:8 But since we belong to the day, let us stay sober, putting on trust and love as a breastplate and the hope of being delivered as a helmet.
9 For God has not intended that we should experience his fury, but that we should gain deliverance through our Lord Yeshua the Messiah,
10 who died on our behalf so that whether we are alive or dead, we may live along with him. 11 Therefore, encourage each other, and build each other up - just as you are doing. 12 We ask you, brothers, to respect those who are working hard among you, those who are guiding you in the Lord and confronting you in order to help you change. 13 Treat them with the highest regard and love because of the work they are doing. Live at peace among yourselves; 14 but we urge you, brothers, to confront those who are lazy, your aim being to help them change, to encourage the timid, to assist the weak, and to be patient with everyone. 15 See that no one repays evil for evil; on the contrary, always try to do good to each other, indeed, to everyone. 16 Always be joyful. 17 Pray regularly. 18 In everything give thanks, for this is what God wants from you who are united with the Messiah Yeshua.

Not sure what your point is in quoting this passage.
Nothing about "free will" here...
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Romans 8:7 For the mind controlled by the old nature is hostile to God,

How can you have imaginary "free will", if your mind is "controlled by the old nature"?
Apparently YOU didn't even bother to read your own "proof-text".

because it does not submit itself to God's Torah - indeed, it cannot. 8 Thus, those who identify with their old nature cannot please God.

Wow... What a HORRIFIC translation.
"Those who identify with their old nature"?
SERIOUSLY?!

Here's Rom. 8:8 in the Greek:

Rom. 8:8 οἱ δὲ ἐν σαρκὶ ὄντες θεῷ ἀρέσαι οὐ δύνανται.

Please identify the Greek word rendered "identify".

In the meantime, you might want to get your hands on a more accurate Bible.
 

rossh

Well-known member
How very insulting of you.
Do you think "insulting" is a Chrsitian virtue, "fruit of the Spirit"?
(I don't.)





"By God's grace"?
What translation is this?

KJV: "But God be thanked"
ESV: "But thanks be to God"
NET: "But thanks be to God"
NASB "But thanks be to God"

Why should God be thanked, if it was our imaginary "free will"?
Or how can it be "by God's grace", if it was by our imaginary "free will"?



Thank you for quoting one of my favourite passages.
Unfortunately for you, it supports my view, and refutes yours.

(Btw, next time you should probably ASK me if I'm familiar with a passage of the Bible, rather than insultingly and ignorantly ASSUMING I'm not familiar with it. It's that "charity" concept that Christ like to speak about. Just sayin'...)



Not sure what your point is in quoting this passage.
Nothing about "free will" here...
what ever ? sooooo? what ever you do next we all hope that you finally get some success ? try some lessons in English maybe ? Oh, yes, you have proved to us beyond any doubt that you still need to read Scripture/s try small passage each at first, that should make it much easier for you.. Then again better still ask God and or Yeshua for help,, as THEY DO KNOW what they are talking about...
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
what ever ? sooooo? what ever you do next we all hope that you finally get some success ? try some lessons in English maybe ? Oh, yes, you have proved to us beyond any doubt that you still need to read Scripture/s try small passage each at first, that should make it much easier for you.. Then again better still ask God and or Yeshua for help,, as THEY DO KNOW what they are talking about...

So you have no valid Biblical argument, and only further insult.
Thanks for the admission.
 

rossh

Well-known member
So you have no valid Biblical argument, and only further insult.
Thanks for the admission.
No problem, and, as I see this issue, it is YOU who is the problem with your EDIT PER MOD and seeing insults where there are none at all..
Why would there BE any " biblical argument/s " in the first place ? Gods Word is Gods Word so either believe His Word or do not... As I see things it is YOU alone who is trying to prove that even God Himself is error but YOU are correct in all even in your own mind... BTW, NO one is insulting you, it is your own guilt trip that you need to deal with... and/or it is you who has placed yourself far above all of us.... Just stop your condescending attitude towards all mankind..
I have admitted nothing what so ever, EDIT PER MOD on that matter.. God be praised!!
 
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rossh

Well-known member
How can you have imaginary "free will", if your mind is "controlled by the old nature"?
Apparently YOU didn't even bother to read your own "proof-text".



Wow... What a HORRIFIC translation.
"Those who identify with their old nature"?
SERIOUSLY?!

Here's Rom. 8:8 in the Greek:

Rom. 8:8 οἱ δὲ ἐν σαρκὶ ὄντες θεῷ ἀρέσαι οὐ δύνανται.

Please identify the Greek word rendered "identify".

In the meantime, you might want to get your hands on a more accurate Bible.
Ro 8:7 For the mind controlled by the old nature is hostile to God, because it does not submit itself to God's Torah - indeed, it cannot. 8 Thus, those who identify with their old nature cannot please God. 9 But you, you do not identify with your old nature but with the Spirit - provided the Spirit of God is living inside you, for anyone who doesn't have the Spirit of the Messiah doesn't belong to him.
 

His clay

Well-known member
How many of every single choice we make daily does God predestine?
I'll make my initial response brief and to the point. I do want to at least answer your initial question before further responding to your thread.

In answer to your question above, I believe that the Bible teaches that God works all things according to the counsel of His will (Eph 1:11). Acts 4:27-28 makes is clear that the crucifixion, along with the actions and choices of people, were predestined. They were real actions and choices; the people were responsible for them; the text makes clear that they were "predestined to take place." Further, since God upholds all things by the word of His power (Heb 1:3), since He holds all things together (Col 1:17), since He gives too all men life, and breath, and everything (Acts 17:25), then it follows that creation and human beings do not possess a self-sufficiency from God. Creation and people are always dependent upon God; therefore, there is no such thing as an autonomous will from God. Thus, it is wrong to define "choice," in any biblical sense, as being independent of God in the previous senses addressed.

In light of the previous verses, I am led to believe by God's revelation that every single choice is dependent upon God's providence and causal sustaining hand. Seeking to "get God off the hook for evil," by introducing human autonomy as the solution fails to understand basic biblical reality both in human choice-making and in the nature of the hook itself.

Reality is established by God; God is the measure of what is real. The fall of man in Genesis 3 sought to reverse that, and human beings first tried to autonomously (subjective) assess competing truth claims (God's word vs the serpent's word). Autonomously assessing is different than submissively assessing, which is what defined humanity pre-fall. Since the fall, mankind has sought to decide for himself what is most beneficial or detrimental to himself, rather than submissively walking by faith in God's revelation. This then leads to numerous examples of people living sinfully or autonomously. Thus, it is the natural, sinful bent of mankind to seek to live autonomously from God, which then leads people to try to justify their actions, which leads them to suppress the truth, exchange God for idols, and interpret the universe and themselves as autonomous.

Thus, in light of the God who works all things according to the counsel of His will, Who clearly predestined human action in the crucifixion, Who sustains all that is dependent upon Him, Who humanity sinfully seeks to live autonomously from, I must conclude that all our choices are predestined by Him in some sense.

I repeat, this is a rather brief answer to your opening question. I strongly encourage you to not resort to the straw men, which have unfortunately infected your assessments thus far. Computer code and puppets are not what anyone is arguing for, and it is both a straw man of our position and a reductionist fallacy. Please do not resort to a deliberate misrepresentation of truth in order to make your points. Again, no one is arguing for compute code, play buttons, or puppets; nor does our position reduce down to such; such nonsense is not what anyone is arguing for. Thanks.
 

His clay

Well-known member
It can be a simple code or an infinitely complex code but its still all preprogrammed.
Your response here only repeats the fallacy I just addressed. Repeating your fallacy does not somehow make it true. I suggest that you reread the following.

"Straw man fallacy. Why? Conflating a dissimilar causal matrix with God's decree. You have reduced the various, multi-faceted forms of causation in God's universe down to computer programming and a play button. This is also a prime example of the reductionist fallacy. No one is saying or arguing for such a simplistic rendering."

Once again, you have conflated a dissimilar causal matrix with God's decree. Do you not understand what I'm saying? Further, please don't resort to category errors. Certainly, an apple and an orange are both fruit, but that does not mean that an apple is an orange. In application, both your straw man and our position employ a causal matrix, but that does not mean that they are the same or should be viewed as equivalent entities. If category errors are allowable, then we can say that an adult is the same as a child, since they both share the same quality of being human. An inorganic rock is the same as human being, since they both share the same quality of possessing matter. A tree is the same thing as a star since they both share a connection to light. In short, if a similarity is used to justify ignoring dissimilar realities, then you will have mammoth problems if your reasoning is consistent.
 

rossh

Well-known member
How many of every single choice we make daily does God predestine?
well, why don't you tell us first ? Seems that is it is YOU who is initiating this topic ?
Do you know Isaiah or not ?
Isa 46:10 At the beginning I announce the end, proclaim in advance things not yet done; and I say that my plan will hold, I will do everything I please to do. 11 I call a bird of prey from the east, the man I intended, from a distant country. I have spoken and will bring it about; I have made a plan, and I will fulfill it. 12 Listen to me, you stubborn people, so far from righteousness: 13 I am bringing my justice nearer, it is not far away; my salvation will not be delayed, I will place my salvation in Tziyon for Isra'el my glory.
( did you god get it wrong ? )
 
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