Did Jesus atone for the sins of Adolf Hitler?

Reformedguy

Well-known member
Seeing he did not believe of no benefit

You still have an unbiblical idea of atonement

Romans 3:26 (KJV)
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Okay, it was of no benefit so his sins were not really atoned for then?

Was the sin of unbelief atoned for at the cross?
 

fltom

Well-known member
Okay, it was of no benefit so his sins were not really atoned for then?

Was the sin of unbelief atoned for at the cross?
Once again you do not understand atonement

atonement is not expiation

No sins are forgiven on the cross without faith
 

fltom

Well-known member
Your scripture is irrelevant to the topic. Your I post alot of scripture trying to filibuster the thread is laughable. Especially when your cutting and pasting it from somewhere else. Wise up
Sorry the topic was Is the atonement saving of itself

those verses show it was not

you just ignored them as is your habit

show some respect for the word of God
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
And YOUR faith has merit. Can't get in there without it right?
Provisionism is wrong about the Gospel being the only Grace of God we need. Without Efficacious Prevening Grace, no one will be persuaded to believe the Gospel any more than they would be persuaded to believe the Gospel if Lazarus himself arose from the Dead and preached it to them...
 
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fltom

Well-known member
Provisionism is wrong about the Gospel being the only Grace of God we need. Without Efficacious Prevening Grace, no one will be persuaded to believe the Gospel any more than they would be persuaded to believe the Gospel if Lazarus himself arose from the Dead and preached it to them...
You are repeating yourself

and you ignored the following in your previous rendition

The following facts mitigate again your claim

Men needed to be hardened so they would not believe

John 12:40 —KJV
“He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.”

Had men not hardened themselves they could have believed

Acts 28:27 —KJV
“For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.”

Jesus spoke to men in parables to prevent their understanding

Matt. 13:10–14 —KJV
“And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:”

God's word says/shows it is sufficient

John 20:31 (KJV 1900)

31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

This clearly presupposes the gospel may be understood and believed

2 Timothy 3:15 (KJV 1900)

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

presupposes Holy scriptures may be understood and believed leading to salvation

Isaiah 55:11 (KJV 1900)

11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth:

It shall not return unto me void,

But it shall accomplish that which I please,

And it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

God’s word prospers in whatever it is set out to do

If it is to bring revelation it is capable of accomplishing that task

Psalm 19:7 (KJV 1900)

7 ………………………The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.

It giveth understanding unto the simple.

It obviously must be understood and believed

Psalm 119:130 (KJV 1900)

130 The entrance of thy words giveth light;

again, understanding is assumed along with belief


Acts 17:11 —KJV

“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”

This shows one can judge spiritual truth by the scriptures which must be understood to do so


Acts 18:28 —KJV

“For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publickly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ.”

Presupposes spiritual truth explained can be understood


John 1:7 —KJV

“The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.”

Again, presupposes spiritual truth explained can be understood

Ephesians 3:4 (KJV)
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

Presupposes reading sufficient to know spiritual truth

When God wanted Cornelius to receive the gospel, he sent a preacher


Acts 11:13-14 (KJV)
13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and

call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

The spirit sent Philip to preach the gospel to the Ethiopian Eunuch

Acts 8:27-35 (KJV)
27 And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,
28 Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet.
29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.
30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:
33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.
34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?
35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
That doesn't say, "Jesus came into the world to save ALL sinners".
I didn't say it did...
So hell will be empty, and everyone will be saved?
It doesn't say that
So did Jesus cleanse "sinners", or did He cleanse "ALL" sinners?
He cleanses all those who receive him, but he died for all.
Still doesn't say, "Jesus came into the world to save ALL sinners".
I did not say that verse did...but since you are so bright please show me anyone who was saved that was not a sinner. Up to this point, all who are saved were sinners.
But you keep tryin', okay?
I am not trying anything, you are being silly...
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
He cleanses all those who receive him, but he died for all.

Where does it say, "he died for all" (presumably meaning "every single individual")?

I did not say that verse did...but since you are so bright please show me anyone who was saved that was not a sinner.

Why the irrelevant red herrings.
I never said he saved non-sinners.

Up to this point, all who are saved were sinners.

Correct.
They're the only ones who are in NEED of saving.
Hello?!
McFly?!

I am not trying anything, you are being silly...

I see.
So you are unable to demonstrate that Christ's atonement was universal, and that Christ was not stupid enough to die for people whom He KNEW would never be saved.

Thank you for the admission.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
Where does it say, "he died for all" (presumably meaning "every single individual")?
Where does it say he died only for some?
John 12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
Why the irrelevant red herrings.
I never said he saved non-sinners.
You started the red herrings...
Romans 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Since all have sinned and Jesus came to save sinners then it follows that Jesus came to save all men.
Correct.
They're the only ones who are in NEED of saving.
Hello?!
McFly?!
All men have sinned therefore all men are in need of saving...
I see.
So you are unable to demonstrate that Christ's atonement was universal, and that Christ was not stupid enough to die for people whom He KNEW would never be saved.
Hebrews 7:25
Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
Anyhow you just proved that Christ died for all men since all men have sinned and are in need of saving (the only ones who are in need of saving are those who have sinned... Which men have not sinned so that Christ did not die for them?
Thank you for the admission.
admission of what? Your ignorance?
 

kamaeq

Active member
I feel so bad that your Jesus suffered for the sins of people who are in hell.
For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
(Rom 8:19-22) KJV
For [even the whole] creation [all nature] waits eagerly for the children of God to be revealed. For the creation was subjected to frustration and futility, not willingly [because of some intentional fault on its part], but by the will of Him who subjected it, in hope [Ecc_1:2] that the creation itself will also be freed from its bondage to decay [and gain entrance] into the glorious freedom of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation has been moaning together as in the pains of childbirth until now. (Rom 8:19-22) Amplified

According to the Bible He suffered for the entire Creation.

It appears that your Jesus has a limit on His ability to redeem.

The differences between the views of God and man cause false distinctions by those who cannot even dimly comprehend. God is the Alpha and the Omega, He knew when He created the entirety from Genesis to Revelation. So even though as a man, living with a past, present and future think you have a free choice (you do), He knew all of your choices from the foundations of the world, those who would accept and those who would reject. If He chose not to redeem those who would reject, so be it. If He chose to redeem everything in His power and for His glory, so be it.
 

fltom

Well-known member
Where does it say, "he died for all" (presumably meaning "every single individual")?




1 Timothy 2:4–6
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

2 Corinthians 5:14–15
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
 

eternomade

Well-known member
It appears that your Jesus has a limit on His ability to redeem.
No, I just believe that redeeming has already been done. Your Jesus wants to save everyone but cant because salvation is conditioned upon the person.

The differences between the views of God and man cause false distinctions by those who cannot even dimly comprehend. God is the Alpha and the Omega, He knew when He created the entirety from Genesis to Revelation. So even though as a man, living with a past, present and future think you have a free choice (you do), He knew all of your choices from the foundations of the world, those who would accept and those who would reject. If He chose not to redeem those who would reject, so be it. If He chose to redeem everything in His power and for His glory, so be it.
My God finished the work for His people. Free will doesn't exist.


Romans 1
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is God’s power for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 17 For the righteousness of God is revealed in the gospel from faith to faith, just as it is written, “The righteous by faith will live.”

Romans 10
2 For I can testify that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not in line with the truth. 3 For ignoring the righteousness that comes from God, and seeking instead to establish their own righteousness, they did not submit to God’s righteousness.
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
Sorry the topic was Is the atonement saving of itself

those verses show it was not

you just ignored them as is your habit

show some respect for the word of God
So what is the atonement and how does it benefit all, especially those who have died lost?
 

fltom

Well-known member
So what is the atonement and how does it benefit all, especially those who have died lost?
Atonement is a sacrificial offering which allows God to justify those who believe on Christ while declaring God's righteousness while doing so

Romans 3:25-26 (KJV)
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
Atonement is a sacrificial offering which allows God to justify those who believe on Christ while declaring God's righteousness while doing so

Romans 3:25-26 (KJV)
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
So how does this sacrificial offering benefit those who die lost? If it was in fact made for them?
 
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