Did Jesus atone for the sins of Adolf Hitler?

Reformedguy

Well-known member
It doesn't

unbelief does not benefit
So their sins in the end are not atoned for then.

Which leads to the next question, given the illogical mess you call provisionism, why would Christ sacrifice for those He knows are never coming to faith? Of what benefit and purpose would that serve?
 

fltom

Well-known member
So their sins in the end are not atoned for then.

Which leads to the next question, given the illogical mess you call provisionism, why would Christ sacrifice for those He knows are never coming to faith? Of what benefit and purpose would that serve?
They are not remitted

You mean other than the fact that is what scripture states


Christ died short list

Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
1 Timothy 2:4–6
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Isaiah 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned every one to his own way; And the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
John 6:51
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
2 Corinthians 5:14–15
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
John 11:51
And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
2 Corinthians 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.


but at least we now know what you think of scripture

and know it is not your authority

You have rejected the word of God for the word of man
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
They are not remitted

You mean other than the fact that is what scripture states


Christ died short list

Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
1 Timothy 2:4–6
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Isaiah 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned every one to his own way; And the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
John 6:51
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
2 Corinthians 5:14–15
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
John 11:51
And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
2 Corinthians 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.


but at least we now know what you think of scripture

and know it is not your authority

You have rejected the word of God for the word of man
Again, why does God make provision for something He knows is never going to happen?
 

fltom

Well-known member
Again, why does God make provision for something He knows is never going to happen?
Are you talking back to God?

Questioning his wisdom?

 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
Are you talking back to God?

Questioning his wisdom?

Why does God make provision for something He knows is never going to happen??
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
Again, why do you question God

Do you think he needs correction from your man-made theology?

That he stated it is enough
You have no answer. It's a fair question. This is why provisionism is stupid. So this conversation is over as well. You cannot and will not answer questions other than to parrot the company line.
 

fltom

Well-known member
You have no answer. It's a fair question. This is why provisionism is stupid. So this conversation is over as well. You cannot and will not answer questions other than to parrot the company line.
Duh

The company line is scripture

hello

you ignore it for your theology

God does not share his reasoning, but He stated it nevertheless

If the word of God were your authority you would not question

but you do because it is not your authority

The word of man is your authority
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
Duh

The company line is scripture

hello

you ignore it for your theology

God does not share his reasoning, but He stated it nevertheless

If the word of God were your authority you would not question

but you do because it is not your authority

The word of man is your authority

See ya. If you cannot answer a simple question then this is pointless. And Provisionism remains stupid and illogical.
 

fltom

Well-known member
See ya. If you cannot answer a simple question then this is pointless. And Provisionism remains stupid and illogical.
Now you are describing your thinking

The fact is the bible states

1 John 2:2 (ESV)
2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

that is scripture

that is the word of God

you either have the word of God as your authority or you have the word of man as your authority

seeing as you refuse the word of God it is the word of man which is your authority
 

kamaeq

Active member
No, I just believe that redeeming has already been done. Your Jesus wants to save everyone but cant because salvation is conditioned upon the person.
Never said it wasn't. I don't think you have an idea of what "my Jesus" is. I'd suggest you read the Bible and find Him there.

You have actually just hit the point of the stupidity of this entire thread and its relatives, something I pointed out to start with.

If God's perfect redemption of the creation includes the price being paid for those that end up in hell or God's perfect redemption of the creation does not include bothering to pay the price for those that end up in hell, then that is God's decision on how He does His business. For any human to question that wastes everyone's time.

My God finished the work for His people. Free will doesn't exist.
He finished that work before He started from our point of view, which is why we are chosen from the foundations of the world. Just because someone knows your choices before you make them doesn't mean you are not making choices.

If you want, then I can pull up verses about choice as well. The most classic being: "And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; ...: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD." (Jos 24:15)

If free will doesn't exist, then you didn't choose to make the response you did, as I cannot choose to make this response. Whether you respond or not will not be your choice, but simply the predetermined program running along as you play your part in the great play for... well, I guess God's entertainment. In that case, we are nothing but dolls being played with, because we have nothing we can even attempt to give. The entirety of creation represents nothing more than a live action movie with no errors or script variations. We are ROBOTS then, not people. I can build one of those if I want to, it will do just as I program it to.

Oh, and if you are going to jump on some "Reformed" high horse, I'd suggest you think again, because this "my Jesus" you keep ranting about isn't the one you appear to think it is. He isn't hyper-Ariminian, Pelagian, or hyper-Calvinist, He is simply the one in the Bible.

Romans 1
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is God’s power for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 17 For the righteousness of God is revealed in the gospel from faith to faith, just as it is written, “The righteous by faith will live.”

Romans 10
2 For I can testify that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not in line with the truth. 3 For ignoring the righteousness that comes from God, and seeking instead to establish their own righteousness, they did not submit to God’s righteousness.
 

fltom

Well-known member
No, I just believe that redeeming has already been done. Your Jesus wants to save everyone but cant because salvation is conditioned upon the person.

Do you have a problem with what God had stated

1 Corinthians 1:21 (ESV)
21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe.

Acts 16:31 (ESV)
31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

John 3:14-15 (ESV)
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up,
15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.

John 5:24-25 (ESV)
24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
25 “Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.
 

eternomade

Well-known member
If free will doesn't exist, then you didn't choose to make the response you did, as I cannot choose to make this response. Whether you respond or not will not be your choice, but simply the predetermined program running along as you play your part in the great play for... well, I guess God's entertainment. In that case, we are nothing but dolls being played with, because we have nothing we can even attempt to give. The entirety of creation represents nothing more than a live action movie with no errors or script variations. We are ROBOTS then, not people. I can build one of those if I want to, it will do just as I program it to.

The Bible does not say we are robots, but rather clay. Robots have batteries, clay doesn't. The offense of the cross is that all of us were made from the same lump of clay, yet some are made for wrath and some for mercy.

Oh, and if you are going to jump on some "Reformed" high horse, I'd suggest you think again, because this "my Jesus" you keep ranting about isn't the one you appear to think it is. He isn't hyper-Ariminian, Pelagian, or hyper-Calvinist, He is simply the one in the Bible.

Everyone believes this, including me. I am not Hyper-Arminian, Pelagian or Hyper-Calvinist. I am a Christian. I do not believe we worship the same Jesus. Once you start to define who you worship and what this person accomplished, we differ. I don't know anything about you except what you have stated. Maybe I can ask you some questions since you believe I mat be misrepresenting you. If I have, I apologize.

1. For whom did Christ die?
2. How is a man made righteous before God?
3. What is the Gospel?
 

fltom

Well-known member
No, I believe all these verses(I just understand them differently than you). I do not like to engage with you though because you don't answer direct questions.
You have not shown you are capable of harmonizing those verses with your theology

so it is you who fails to answer and avoids direct evidence

you can't pass your failure off on someone else
 

kamaeq

Active member
The Bible does not say we are robots, but rather clay. Robots have batteries, clay doesn't. The offense of the cross is that all of us were made from the same lump of clay, yet some are made for wrath and some for mercy.
Heh, I will give God the ability to use something other than batteries to run His clay. In fact, quite remarkable ones that go to where it can gather certain raw materials, take them in to process them for energy and store that energy in a form that can be used for later need. Over a decade ago I bought a man made robot that could go to a certain place (the docking station), take in and process the required thing (electricity) and store it for later use (battery).

Yes, and God knows which, but you do not, so do you treat them unequally based on your flawed decisions? It would follow from what you've been saying.
Everyone believes this, including me. I am not Hyper-Arminian, Pelagian or Hyper-Calvinist. I am a Christian. I do not believe we worship the same Jesus. Once you start to define who you worship and what this person accomplished, we differ. I don't know anything about you except what you have stated. Maybe I can ask you some questions since you believe I mat be misrepresenting you. If I have, I apologize.

1. For whom did Christ die?
For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
(Rom 5:6-8)

2. How is a man made righteous before God?
And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. (2Co 5:18-21)

3. What is the Gospel?
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. (Joh 3:16-17)
 

eternomade

Well-known member
Yes, and God knows which, but you do not, so do you treat them unequally based on your flawed decisions? It would follow from what you've been saying.
No, but I'd be curious as to why you think that. I don't know who the sheep and goats are unless they profess what gospel they believe. If one professes a false gospel, I should evangelize.
 

fltom

Well-known member
The Bible does not say we are robots, but rather clay. Robots have batteries, clay doesn't. The offense of the cross is that all of us were made from the same lump of clay, yet some are made for wrath and some for mercy.

Care to provide a verse which actually states some were unconditionally made for wrath and some for mercy from birth?
 

eternomade

Well-known member
Care to provide a verse which actually states some were unconditionally made for wrath and some for mercy from birth?
Romans 9, but I am sure you will say this is not about us but Israel.

19 You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who has ever resisted his will?” 20 But who indeed are you—a mere human being—to talk back to God? Does what is molded say to the molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Has the potter no right to make from the same lump of clay one vessel for special use and another for ordinary use? 22 But what if God, willing to demonstrate his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience the objects of wrath prepared for destruction? 23 And what if he is willing to make known the wealth of his glory on the objects of mercy that he has prepared beforehand for glory—
 
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