Did Jesus atone for the sins of Adolf Hitler?

fltom

Well-known member
Romans 9, but I am sure you will say this is not about us but Israel.

19 You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who has ever resisted his will?” 20 But who indeed are you—a mere human being—to talk back to God? Does what is molded say to the molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Has the potter no right to make from the same lump of clay one vessel for special use and another for ordinary use? 22 But what if God, willing to demonstrate his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience the objects of wrath prepared for destruction? 23 And what if he is willing to make known the wealth of his glory on the objects of mercy that he has prepared beforehand for glory—
It does not say what you hope

it says nothing at all about being created a vessels of wrath before they were born

and of course, it refers to Israel

read the context

Romans 9:21-32 (ESV)
21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?
22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,
23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory—
24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?
25 As indeed he says in Hosea, “Those who were not my people I will call ‘my people,’ and her who was not beloved I will call ‘beloved.’”
26 “And in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ there they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’”
27 And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved,
28 for the Lord will carry out his sentence upon the earth fully and without delay.”
29 And as Isaiah predicted, “If the Lord of hosts had not left us offspring, we would have been like Sodom and become like Gomorrah.”
30 What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith;
31 but that Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness did not succeed in reaching that law.
32 Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone,

Israel failure had nothing at all to do with being chosen a vessel of wrath from birth

They were an elect people. Their lack of faith however caused them to be cutoff
 

kamaeq

Active member
No, but I'd be curious as to why you think that. I don't know who the sheep and goats are unless they profess what gospel they believe. If one professes a false gospel, I should evangelize.
Ah, slightly different question. In the end, you cannot know, only God knows the heart. However, you can be a fruit inspector.

Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. (Mat 7:16-20)

Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. (Gal 5:19-23)

Again, we do not know the heart, but these things can help guide us. Evangelizing isn't some formal thing, it is simply sharing the news. Now, it can be all formal, but for every thing there is a season. I'll note that I've heard what sounded like heretical teachings before, that when I check on it, was not heretical, simply heterodox at worst because it wasn't an incorrect teaching, just not the most popular one.

Quick example: Jesus died for the glory of God and by His Will, implying the crucifixion wasn't for anyone. It is true, but part of that glory and will was to redeem the lost. Bah, when I shorten it down like that, it doesn't sound that bad. It happened during a sermon with the bit about the redeeming being part of getting lost and it caused a bit of a reaction, including charges of teaching a false doctrine.

In such a situation, what I do is ask or talk about it. I seek understanding first.

According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
(2Pe 1:3-9)
 

fltom

Well-known member
Did Jesus atone for the sins of Adolf Hitler?

My answer: I'm not sure. I don't know if Adolf Hitler was elect or non elect.

Christ died for all and his sacrifice would have been sufficient for his sins to be forgiven had he repented and believed
 

kamaeq

Active member
NO. He, the King of the Jews, came for the lost house of Israel and died for their sins. That is why that sign was above his head.

He is the atoning sacrifice for everyone in the whole world, both Jew and Gentile.

... all those who will share in his sufferings.


I am sure.
On the last bit, I'm fairly sure. Hitler's fruits would tend not to be reversed at the last minute in a person. However, I do not claim to know anyone's heart condition before God. In fact, God claims the ability to read the heart and thus to know for sure as His alone.
 

fltom

Well-known member
NO. He, the King of the Jews, came for the lost house of Israel and died for their sins. That is why that sign was above his head.

He is the atoning sacrifice for everyone in the whole world, both Jew and Gentile.

... all those who will share in his sufferings.


I am sure.
Christ died for all



Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
1 Timothy 2:4–6
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Isaiah 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned every one to his own way; And the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

John 6:51
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

2 Corinthians 5:14–15
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

John 11:51
And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;

1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

2 Corinthians 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
 

kamaeq

Active member
You will know them by their fruits.

He didn't say, "You might be able to get a rough idea by their fruits."
Correct, but to claim that 100% surety, we would have to know things that we cannot know. He can. Given what I know about Hitler, his personality and his actions, then I'm almost certain, but I don't know all.

I have made errors by jumping to conclusions when I misunderstood situations. I try to get understanding before I start making judgement calls or claiming I know.
 

fltom

Well-known member
Did Jesus atone for the sins of Adolf Hitler?

My answer: I'm not sure. I don't know if Adolf Hitler was elect or non elect.
Christ died for all


Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
1 Timothy 2:4–6
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Isaiah 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned every one to his own way; And the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
John 6:51
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
2 Corinthians 5:14–15
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
John 11:51
And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
2 Corinthians 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.


Exported from Logos Bible Software, 12:12 PM January 05, 2022.
 

kamaeq

Active member
So, you can absolutely, positively, with 100% certainty say you witnessed until Hitler's dying breath that he did not repent?

You are merely guessing, based on the fruits you are aware of without full knowledge, unless you are claiming a word of knowledge. I am more than willing to back that guess with a wager, because I feel your conclusion is correct, but I don't claim certainty when I am lacking in specific knowledge and direct witness.

After all, there have been others who have repented after heinous crimes and been saved. I can also give examples of the many more who have not and died unsaved.

Anyway, we are straying from the original question, which was the extent of Christ's atonement.
 
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