Did Jesus bear Gods wrath and was He forsaken ?

Carbon

Well-known member
My first question is, if Jesus wasn't forsaken by God, why did Jesus say he he had been forsaken?

Doug
Great question Doug.

He gave me a answer to that question, personally I don’t agree with it. But I’ll let him answer you, this way I may have another look from a different angle?
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Good question. That's what we've been trying to figure out. But enough questions we would like you to thoroughly explain this. Feel free to use versus from both the Old Testament and the New. Plus all the biblical knowledge you've acquired over the years that will shed some light on this topic.
Civic explained it...
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Good question. That's what we've been trying to figure out. But enough questions we would like you to thoroughly explain this. Feel free to use versus from both the Old Testament and the New. Plus all the biblical knowledge you've acquired over the years that will shed some light on this topic.
If you haven't met Tibiasdad/Doug yet, you will probably like him...
 

Predestined

Well-known member
If you haven't met Tibiasdad/Doug yet, you will probably like him...
Are you kidding, he's one of the coolest guys here. Did you see the song he wrote on my birthday?

The Loving Arms of Jesus​


Leap into the loving arms
Of the Savior strong yet meek
Find protection from all harm
Safety from the stormy bleak.
Leap into the loving arms
Ever sure, forever strong
To all our earthly fears disarm
Find the peace for which we long.
Leap in faith, the loving arms
Will always catch you and ensure
Comfort when filled with alarm
Granting hope-- yes hope secure!

© D. Allen Jenkins
11/19/21
 
Last edited:

TibiasDad

Well-known member
Good question. That's what we've been trying to figure out. But enough questions we would like you to thoroughly explain this. Feel free to use versus from both the Old Testament and the New. Plus all the biblical knowledge you've acquired over the years that will shed some light on this topic.
I am merely responding to Civic’s request for me to respond to his thread. @civic seems to be saying that Jesus was not forsaken by the Father, but Jesus, quoting Psalm 22 clearly says that his God has forsaken him.

This is the first and obvious question that has to be asked given Civic’s argument!

Doug
 

TibiasDad

Well-known member
Do Wesleyans hold to Penal Substitutionary Atonement regarding the Substitution of the Wrath of God?
Not as a rule. Theories of the atonement are very overlapping and almost certainly included substitution to one degree or another. Penal Substitution in a uniquely Reformed take, and thus not adhered too by many Wesleyan thinkers. Substitution, yes, but in the sense of for the sake of, not penal/vicariously instead of.

Doug
 

Predestined

Well-known member
I am merely responding to Civic’s request for me to respond to his thread. @civic seems to be saying that Jesus was not forsaken by the Father, but Jesus, quoting Psalm 22 clearly says that his God has forsaken him.

This is the first and obvious question that has to be asked given Civic’s argument!

Doug
I'm sorry Doug, wasn't trying to give you a hard time. I just got excited to see you show up and have a set of fresh eyes on this topic. I'm definitely looking forward to read anything else you might post here. I'm sure this Civic invited You hear he knows you has some good information for us. And I may need my booster shot for "foot in mouth disease".
 

fltom

Well-known member
I am merely responding to Civic’s request for me to respond to his thread. @civic seems to be saying that Jesus was not forsaken by the Father, but Jesus, quoting Psalm 22 clearly says that his God has forsaken him.

This is the first and obvious question that has to be asked given Civic’s argument!

Doug
One question Doug

How can God forsake God and the trinity remain intact ?

From a human point of view do men in times of distress not feel that God has abandoned them

I believe you are familiar with the footsteps in the sand but

"Footprints," also known as "Footprints in the Sand," is a popular allegorical religious poem. It describes a person who sees two pairs of footprints in the sand, one of which belonged to God and another to him or herself. At some points the two pairs of footprints dwindle to one; it is explained that this is where God carried the protagonist.

based on the single set of footprints one might believe god has deserted them but it is not so


In any case Civic justifies his claim from verse 24

Psalm 22:24 (KJV)
24 For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.
 

Carbon

Well-known member
Did I get you @civic ?

There would have been people there who saw the darkness the day Christ was crucified, and when they heard Peter quote the prophecy of Joel they would have known that the darkness was predicted long ago.

The day Christ was Crucified was the Great and Terrible Day of the Lord; right? A Day of the Wrath of God...

@Carbon
I’m still waiting for anyone to address this post.

@civic
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
I’m still waiting for anyone to address this post.

@civic
I realize why Civic never noticed it; because he's a Premillennial Dispensationalist. He said the Great and Terrible Day of the Lord is Future, and it may be; but it's also the Past. Civic says Jesus quoted Psalm 22 to make a point he's the Messiah; Peter quoted Joel to make a point too. Peter intended for those in the crowd to remember that fifty days earlier, the Prophecy of Joel was fulfilled by the Darkness at the Crucifixion. God's Wrath was poured out on Jesus that Day. This Knowledge is a main reason 3,000 people were Cut to the Heart!

You and I are Covenantalists, Amillenialists or Post Millennialists; we noticed...
 
Last edited:

civic

Well-known member
My first question is, if Jesus wasn't forsaken by God, why did Jesus say he he had been forsaken?

Doug
I addressed it in the OP but He felt forsaken as a human experiencing the suffereing and felt alone. And more importantly every Jew knew those words were directly from Psalm 22 which is why from my POV its a deceleration of His Messiah-ship and that it a Messianic Psalm that was being lived out before their very oyes in the greatest of details.
 
Top