Did Jesus bear Gods wrath and was He forsaken ?

[Sethproton]

Jesus said "the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works..."

Did Jesus do the divine works or did his inner Father?

The man Jesus was the conduit. So on one had you can say, as the Bible does, He did miracles. But on the other hand you can say, as the Bible does, the Father did the miracles thru Him. Both, when understood properly, are true

 

[Sethproton]

No, read Psalm 2 and 22. Jesus is there as a human in present tense.

I figured you knew that.

I figured you already knew that God witnesses future event, not predicts them.

The word "prophecy" does have a couple meanings/uses.
It can mean to speak the current truth, but it can also mean to speak what is coming.
In the old testament it tells you that prophets are also called seers. They "see" the future and speak about it.
Sometimes they seem to speak things into existence
The word is flexible and needs context to understand the various uses

 

[ReverendRV]

It means Christ's human nature doesn't have its own human person in the hypostatic union but has the divine person the Logos.

I don't say that the Trinity consists of Human Personhood. But I deny Jesus is not a Human person. Nothing can be introduced into the Trinity. If you say Jesus Incarnate has always been the Second Person in the Trinity, then the Human Nature is a part of the Trinity; though you exclude the Human Personhood from the Trinity...

It's okay to add a Human Nature to the Godhead; as long as that Human Nature excludes the Human Attribute of Personhood?

 

[Sethproton]

The last Adam(per context of resurrecting) was made a quickening spirit(God).

Jesus said "Before Abraham existed, I am."
He claimed to be Jehovah.

 

[Mod10]

Truther and everyone else on here-do NOT debate non-Christian theology on this board. Take it to the Apologetics board, if you wish to do that. This board is for debating all things Armenian and Calvinistic--not Oneness doctrines. Thank you.

 

[ReverendRV]

No, I mean define personless which will in turn shed light on what it actually means. Your above is merely reflective of your philosophical depiction, it isn't following your "personless human nature" phrase.

So, again, define personless.

Humans are persons...

What God has United, let no Man tear it asunder. A human who isn't a person, is like a Human who can't think...

 

[Sethproton]

This thread shows what happens when you allow kids to eat at the adult table.

Yes, you get new life

 

[Truther]

My posts are being deleted because "God inside Christ "is considered a non Christian doctrine.

Thanks for the chat guys and merry Christmas to all.

 

[Sethproton]

Per Phil 2, did God think it not robbery...?

Or, a man thought it not robbery....?

God, because at that point, Jesus had not taken on flesh

 

[Sethproton]

Can something divine die? If Jesus’ flesh was divine, could it die?

Good question, there is nothing Biblical calling flesh divine.
People speak of a glorified body, but since that phrase does not appear in Scripture it is difficult to know what it means

 

[preacher4truth]

Humans are persons...

What God has United, let no Man tear it asunder. A human who isn't a person, is like a Human who can't think...

This is why we need to have him define "personless" instead of supplying philosophical conjecture.

 

[Theo1689]

Who put the X in Xmas?

Good post. But since you identify it as Sproul's, it's no wonder...

There’s No X in Christmas​

First of all, you have to understand that it is not the letter X that is put into Christmas. We see the English letter X there, but actually what it involves is the first letter of the Greek name for Christ. Christos is the New Testament Greek for Christ. The first letter of the Greek word Christos is transliterated into our alphabet as an X. That X has come through church history to be a shorthand symbol for the name of Christ.

Fortunately, I've installed a Greek keyboard on my laptop, so we can see:

ΙΗΣΟΥΣ ΧΡΙΣΤΟΣ
Ιησους Χριστος
Jesus Christ

We don't see people protesting the use of the Greek letter theta, which is an O with a line across the middle. We use that as a shorthand abbreviation for God because it is the first letter of the word Theos, the Greek word for God.

Yes, R.C. here is referring to what are called "nomina sacra", which appear to be the first abbreviations, which were created by Christians, just as the "Book" (bound "codex", rather than scroll) was invented by Christans. However, it is an oversimplified description of the nomina sacra ("sacred names").

I suspect they were invented to save space on vellum, which wasn't all that prevalent (scribes would often scrape the text off a piece of vellum to reuse it, resulting in "palimpsests", which is an interesting topic in itself). Words related to God (God, Father, Heaven, Christ, Lord, Holy, Spirit, etc.) were used commonly in Scripture, and it would save space if all these words were reduced in length.

To make a nomem sacrum, the scribe would take the first (or first two) and last letters of the word, and put a horizontal bar over top to signify it as a nomen sacrum, and so we would get:

___
ΘC - θεος (God)
___
ΥC - Υιος (Son)
___
ΚC - Κυριος (Lord)
____
ΠΝΑ - Πνεύμα (Spirit)

I remember once being in a Roman Catholic Church, and in the front of the church was an image of a portion of Greek scripture, and you could see the nomina sacra in the text.

X Has a Long and Sacred History​

The idea of X as an abbreviation for the name of Christ came into use in our culture with no intent to show any disrespect for Jesus. The church has used the symbol of the fish historically because it is an acronym. Fish in Greek (ichthus) involved the use of the first letters for the Greek phrase “Jesus Christ, Son of God, Savior.”

Yes, I was reminded of that myself, and was going to bring it up myself

ΙΧΘΥΣ - "ixthus" ("fish")

Ιησους - Jesus
Χριστος - Christ
Θεου - God's
Υιος - Son
Σωτηρ - Saviour

 

[guest1]

Truther and everyone else on here-do NOT debate non-Christian theology on this board. Take it to the Apologetics board, if you wish to do that. This board is for debating all things Armenian and Calvinistic--not Oneness doctrines. Thank you.

Thank you and Merry Christmas!

 

[Theo1689]

A note for you, some calvinists here try to pressure people to stop posting who are not Calvinist nor Arminian. But the forum is not called Calvinists and Arminians. This forum is about the two religeous concepts and is open for anyone to discuss them, even in reference to their own beliefs,

That's because those who are neither A- nor C- invariably derail discussion into their pet (non-A and non-C) doctrines, such as sola Scriptura, the Trinity, etc.

It's interesting (although not surprising) that you're defending him posting here, since your goal is to sabotage actual productive discussion, since you hate Calvinism so much.

 

[Theo1689]

Truther and everyone else on here-do NOT debate non-Christian theology on this board. Take it to the Apologetics board, if you wish to do that. This board is for debating all things Armenian and Calvinistic--not Oneness doctrines. Thank you.

@Seth - ^^^^^^^^^^ (What he said.)

 

[guest1]

That's because those who are neither A- nor C- invariably derail discussion into their pet (non-A and non-C) doctrines, such as sola Scriptura, the Trinity, etc.

It's interesting (although not surprising) that you're defending him posting here, since your goal is to sabotage actual productive discussion, since you hate Calvinism so much.

Amen he is 100% heterodox.

 

[guest1]

Truther and everyone else on here-do NOT debate non-Christian theology on this board. Take it to the Apologetics board, if you wish to do that. This board is for debating all things Armenian and Calvinistic--not Oneness doctrines. Thank you.

@Sethproton

Do you understand the above ? Yes or no

 

[guest1]

@Sethproton denying Jesus is a man right now in non Christian theology as is denying the bodily Resurrection and that Jesus has a real human body that is physical .

That is non negotiable in Christianity and on this forum as per the moderator.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Predestined]

Good post. But since you identify it as Sproul's, it's no wonder...



Fortunately, I've installed a Greek keyboard on my laptop, so we can see:

ΙΗΣΟΥΣ ΧΡΙΣΤΟΣ
Ιησους Χριστος
Jesus Christ



Yes, R.C. here is referring to what are called "nomina sacra", which appear to be the first abbreviations, which were created by Christians, just as the "Book" (bound "codex", rather than scroll) was invented by Christans. However, it is an oversimplified description of the nomina sacra ("sacred names").

I suspect they were invented to save space on vellum, which wasn't all that prevalent (scribes would often scrape the text off a piece of vellum to reuse it, resulting in "palimpsests", which is an interesting topic in itself). Words related to God (God, Father, Heaven, Christ, Lord, Holy, Spirit, etc.) were used commonly in Scripture, and it would save space if all these words were reduced in length.

To make a nomem sacrum, the scribe would take the first (or first two) and last letters of the word, and put a horizontal bar over top to signify it as a nomen sacrum, and so we would get:

___
ΘC - θεος (God)
___
ΥC - Υιος (Son)
___
ΚC - Κυριος (Lord)
____
ΠΝΑ - Πνεύμα (Spirit)

I remember once being in a Roman Catholic Church, and in the front of the church was an image of a portion of Greek scripture, and you could see the nomina sacra in the text.



Yes, I was reminded of that myself, and was going to bring it up myself

ΙΧΘΥΣ - "ixthus" ("fish")

Ιησους - Jesus
Χριστος - Christ
Θεου - God's
Υιος - Son
Σωτηρ - Saviour

Thanks Theo for taking the time to teach us something.

 

[guest1]

Question for everyone, did the human nature of Jesus Christ, specifically the human mind, resist God like every other human in nature?

If your answer is no, then you have identified a uniqueness in the Incarnation associated with His human nature that does not directly corelate with a human person.

Would you agree or disagree?

Excellent!

Impeccable vs peccable