Did Jesus create the angels?

J

jamesh

Well-known member
According to jw.org Jesus did create the angels.
When Was Jesus Created, and Why Is He Called God’s Son?

When was Jesus created?​

"God created Jesus before creating Adam. In fact, God created Jesus and then used him to make everything else, including the angels. That is why the Bible calls Jesus “the firstborn of all creation” by God.—Read Colossians 1:15, 16.

Before he was born in Bethlehem, Jesus lived as a spirit creature in heaven. When the time came, God transferred Jesus’ life from heaven to Mary’s womb so that he could be born as a human.—Read Luke 1:30-32; John 6:38; 8:23."

But the Bible says that God created the angels. Nehemiah 9:6, "Thou ALONE art the Lord, Thou hast made the heavens, The heaven of the heavens with all their host. The earth and all that is on it, The seas and all that is in them, Thou dost give life to all of them And the heavenly host bows down before Thee."

So how can Jesus have created the angels since God says He created them? Moreover, we read from the Jw's above , "Jesus lived as a spirit creature in heaven." And who was that spirit creature? It was none other than Jesus as Michael the arc angel who God created. Also notice that the spirit creature Jesus who is also Michael had his life transferred into Mary's womb so that he could be born a human. How do the Jw's reconcile these "glaring" contradictions of the Bible?


In Him,
herman
 
S

shnarkle

Well-known member
herman said:
According to jw.org Jesus did create the angels.
When Was Jesus Created, and Why Is He Called God’s Son?

When was Jesus created?​

"God created Jesus before creating Adam. In fact, God created Jesus and then used him to make everything else, including the angels. That is why the Bible calls Jesus “the firstborn of all creation” by God.—Read Colossians 1:15, 16.
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Jesus didn't even officially receive his name until he was eight days old. This is a common error everyone makes. We tend to conflate a name used to identify someone with who they are. As closely related as identification is to identity; identification is not identity.
herman said:
In Him,
herman
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N

Nathan P

Well-known member
Bob Carabbio said:
WHO CARES what "jw.org" says or doesn't say about anything??

SImple answer: In the beginning was the WORD, and the word was WITH God, and the word WAS GOD. So the answer is NEVER.
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A documented man named Jesus only existed about 2,000 years ago and thus Jesus has only existed for around 2,000 years. Now the Word who would be flesh later on could have existed for however long the beginning has been around. Before the beginning only God existed.
 
Bob Carabbio

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
Nathan P said:
A documented man named Jesus only existed about 2,000 years ago and thus Jesus has only existed for around 2,000 years. Now the Word who would be flesh later on could have existed for however long the beginning has been around. Before the beginning only God existed.
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And since the WORD WAS WITH GOD AND WAS GOD, He's eternal also. Simple as that.

WHY IN THE WORLD would you think that the WORD (who was the agent of creation) only goes back to the beginning of it??

Sounds like some lunatic fringe denominational foolishness.
 
The Prophet

The Prophet

Well-known member
jamesh said:
According to jw.org Jesus did create the angels.
When Was Jesus Created, and Why Is He Called God’s Son?

When was Jesus created?​

"God created Jesus before creating Adam. In fact, God created Jesus and then used him to make everything else, including the angels. That is why the Bible calls Jesus “the firstborn of all creation” by God.—Read Colossians 1:15, 16.

Before he was born in Bethlehem, Jesus lived as a spirit creature in heaven. When the time came, God transferred Jesus’ life from heaven to Mary’s womb so that he could be born as a human.—Read Luke 1:30-32; John 6:38; 8:23."

But the Bible says that God created the angels. Nehemiah 9:6, "Thou ALONE art the Lord, Thou hast made the heavens, The heaven of the heavens with all their host. The earth and all that is on it, The seas and all that is in them, Thou dost give life to all of them And the heavenly host bows down before Thee."

So how can Jesus have created the angels since God says He created them? Moreover, we read from the Jw's above , "Jesus lived as a spirit creature in heaven." And who was that spirit creature? It was none other than Jesus as Michael the arc angel who God created. Also notice that the spirit creature Jesus who is also Michael had his life transferred into Mary's womb so that he could be born a human. How do the Jw's reconcile these "glaring" contradictions of the Bible?


In Him,
herman
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The LORD in Nehemiah 9:6 is Jesus ​
 
I

imJRR

Well-known member
The Prophet said:
The LORD in Nehemiah 9:6 is Jesus ​
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Besides the above, there are other problems (plural) with Jesus being Michael:

There is the exchange between Jesus and Philip in John 14:8-9, where Jesus unmistakably tells Philip that seeing Him = seeing God Himself (He tells Thomas the very same thing). Michael would never dare make that claim for Himself. There is a thread posted here on this board about that.

There is also the problem of the founder of the JWs - C.T. Russell - stating that Michael is not Christ and Christ is not Michael. There is a thread posted here on this board about that.

And besides the issue of Jesus Christ not being Michael, there is also the problem of the JW masters amazing statement that a person cannot arrive at JW beliefs by reading the Bible. This statement can be found in the thread, "Want to Contact Jehovah's Witnesses?"
 
S

shnarkle

Well-known member
Nathan P said:
. Before the beginning only God existed.
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This doesn't make any sense to me. Before the beginning is a contradiction. There can't be a time before the beginning of time, or a time after the end of time. To say that God existed is also a contradiction because God is. To claim that God used to exist is to claim a dead God because the past doesn't exist.
 
F

froggy

Active member
Nathan P said:
A documented man named Jesus only existed about 2,000 years ago and thus Jesus has only existed for around 2,000 years. Now the Word who would be flesh later on could have existed for however long the beginning has been around. Before the beginning only God existed.
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Then how did He create everything. All things were made through Him.
 
S

shnarkle

Well-known member
froggy said:
Then how did He create everything. All things were made through Him.
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Everything is created through self sacrificial love, e.g. "slain from the foundation of the world".

All things are made through the word, but when the word becomes flesh, or enters into the created world, that's not what created anything. Jesus the man, didn't create anything because flesh can only "pro-create", and Jesus came in "the likeness of sinful flesh".

So it isn't a man who creates anything, but the word.
 
F

froggy

Active member
shnarkle said:
Everything is created through self sacrificial love, e.g. "slain from the foundation of the world".

All things are made through the word, but when the word becomes flesh, or enters into the created world, that's not what created anything. Jesus the man, didn't create anything because flesh can only "pro-create", and Jesus came in "the likeness of sinful flesh".

So it isn't a man who creates anything, but the word.
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Are you a JW?
 
N

Nathan P

Well-known member
shnarkle said:
Everything is created through self sacrificial love, e.g. "slain from the foundation of the world".

All things are made through the word, but when the word becomes flesh, or enters into the created world, that's not what created anything. Jesus the man, didn't create anything because flesh can only "pro-create", and Jesus came in "the likeness of sinful flesh".

So it isn't a man who creates anything, but the word.
Click to expand...

Bob Carabbio said:
And since the WORD WAS WITH GOD AND WAS GOD, He's eternal also. Simple as that.

WHY IN THE WORLD would you think that the WORD (who was the agent of creation) only goes back to the beginning of it??

Sounds like some lunatic fringe denominational foolishness.
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Because it says in the beginning was the Word. In the beginning means in the beginning and not before or after the beginning.
 
N

Nathan P

Well-known member
froggy said:
Are you a JW?
Click to expand...

shnarkle said:
Everything is created through self sacrificial love, e.g. "slain from the foundation of the world".

All things are made through the word, but when the word becomes flesh, or enters into the created world, that's not what created anything. Jesus the man, didn't create anything because flesh can only "pro-create", and Jesus came in "the likeness of sinful flesh".

So it isn't a man who creates anything, but the word.
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That is what I have been trying to tell them that things were made through the Word and not the man Jesus after the Word became flesh.
 
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