Did Jesus create the angels?

Nathan P

Active member
O yes I can because He is Both God and Man as per John 1:1+14 and that is EXACTLY why God His Father can call ONLY that man ( Jesus Christ His ONLY Begotten Son ) " O God " in Hebrews 1:8! Case closed!
As I proved you can not say in this one case we will read it the way we want and in all other cases we have to read it like it is supposed to be read. No I closed the case.
 

Nathan P

Active member
FYI again those AS IS posted scriptures ( John 1:1+14 ) say " the Word was God " and then BECAME Incarnate ( FLESH ) as Jesus Christ and Rev.19:13 Shows us that Pre-carnate Jesus Christ " was God " the Word in John 1:1 as His NAME is also called " the WORD " ! Then God His Father calls Hin " O God " in Heb.1:8! CASE Closed on your Twisted view ( 2 Peter 3:16 ) that the Real Jesus Christ in not also " God " the former Word in John 1:1, Through/By whom All things were made/created as per John 1:3/Col.1:16! !
You just admitted he was not known as Jesus until the Word became flesh when you said he became incarnate (flesh) as Jesus).
 

rod.ney

Well-known member
The case can not be closed until you provide clear evidence of one named Jesus before the Word became flesh
FYI the Point is that you are WRONG to say that Jesus Christ is just a man and Not God also because John 1:1 says the WORD " was God " and He who " was God " in that verse can't cease to still be God when He becomes " Flesh " ( incarnate ) as Jesus Christ in John 1:14! God can NEVER cease to be God, thus He who " was God " the Word in John 1:1 became God-Man as Jesus Christ in John 1:14! Case closed on your Twisted view ( 2 Peter 3:16 ) that the REAL Jesus Christ is a man only ( like the JW's Wrongfully insist upon )! The JW's say they still go by the 10 commandments and that they accept Jesus Christ as their Savior, but they believe He ( the WORD ) is a god in John 1:1 and Not " was God "! Well that clearly breaks one of the 10 commandments that says " you shall have no other gods besides Me "! When the JW's come knocking on my door, I don't send them away, I just ask them if they go by the 10 Commandments and if they accept Jesus Christ as their Savior! They say " YES " to both Questions! Then I ask them is they accept Jesus Christ as a god or God, they say " a god " since their NWT made that change ( From " was God " to " a god " in John 1:1! Thus they have broken one of the 10 Commandments that they said they still go by! When the scriptures mention gods, it means non-divine created angels and humans! They then have no answer to explain what I confronted them with and they leave! So, are you a JW?!
 

rod.ney

Well-known member
As I proved you can not say in this one case we will read it the way we want and in all other cases we have to read it like it is supposed to be read. No I closed the case.
Yes case closed because you Twist ( 2 Peter 3:16 ) what you read in order to stay with your agenda ( man's word as opposed to God's word )!
 

rod.ney

Well-known member
You just admitted he was not known as Jesus until the Word became flesh when you said he became incarnate (flesh) as Jesus).
But He is still known as the WORD in Rev.19:13 Long after John 1:1+14 transpired ! Different names that He goes by will never make Him someone else, which is why the scripture ( Heb.13:8 ) about Him say " Jesus Christ, the same yesterday ( in the past like in John 1:1 ) , and today ( Present - right now ) and forever ( in the never ending Future ) " ------------------ He's the same in the past, present & future according to this God inspired scripture ----------

Hebrews 13:8​

New International Version​

8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. ----------------------------- So yes He was actually Pre-carnate Jesus Christ called the Word in John 1:1! Thus Case closed!
 
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Nathan P

Active member
But He is still known as the WORD in Rev.19:13 Long after John 1:1+14 transpired ! Different names that He goes by will never make Him someone else, which is why the scripture ( Heb.13:8 ) about Him say " Jesus Christ, the same yesterday ( in the past like in John 1:1 ) , and today ( Present - right now ) and forever ( in the never ending Future ) " ------------------ He's the same in the past, present & future according to this God inspired scripture ----------

Hebrews 13:8​

New International Version​

8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. ----------------------------- So yes He was actually Pre-carnate Jesus Christ called the Word in John 1:1! Thus Case closed!
Then say he was the Word before the Word became flesh and not Jesus. And heb. 13:8 was talking about when he was on earth.
 

Nathan P

Active member
Yes case closed because you Twist ( 2 Peter 3:16 ) what you read in order to stay with your agenda ( man's word as opposed to God's word )!
I notice you are not arguing about if it is read this way, then then we can not in only one other case we can read it the way we want to?
 

Nathan P

Active member
FYI the Point is that you are WRONG to say that Jesus Christ is just a man and Not God also because John 1:1 says the WORD " was God " and He who " was God " in that verse can't cease to still be God when He becomes " Flesh " ( incarnate ) as Jesus Christ in John 1:14! God can NEVER cease to be God, thus He who " was God " the Word in John 1:1 became God-Man as Jesus Christ in John 1:14! Case closed on your Twisted view ( 2 Peter 3:16 ) that the REAL Jesus Christ is a man only ( like the JW's Wrongfully insist upon )! The JW's say they still go by the 10 commandments and that they accept Jesus Christ as their Savior, but they believe He ( the WORD ) is a god in John 1:1 and Not " was God "! Well that clearly breaks one of the 10 commandments that says " you shall have no other gods besides Me "! When the JW's come knocking on my door, I don't send them away, I just ask them if they go by the 10 Commandments and if they accept Jesus Christ as their Savior! They say " YES " to both Questions! Then I ask them is they accept Jesus Christ as a god or God, they say " a god " since their NWT made that change ( From " was God " to " a god " in John 1:1! Thus they have broken one of the 10 Commandments that they said they still go by! When the scriptures mention gods, it means non-divine created angels and humans! They then have no answer to explain what I confronted them with and they leave! So, are you a JW?!
You are admitting the Word was God and that Jesus was not God before the Word became flesh.
 

rod.ney

Well-known member
Then say he was the Word before the Word became flesh and not Jesus. And heb. 13:8 was talking about when he was on earth.
And He is still the Word post resurrection as per Rev.19:13! Thus Case still closed! He is God the Word who created us ( John 1:3/Col.1:16 ) and He was with God the Father & Holy Spirit in John 1:1! And God the Father calls Him " O God " in Heb.1:8
 

rod.ney

Well-known member
I notice you are not arguing about if it is read this way, then then we can not in only one other case we can read it the way we want to?
FYI the argument that you made ( like JW's do ) is your say so ( man's word - 2 Peter 3:16 ) that the Real Jesus Christ is not God ( like the Father & Holy Spirit are, but just a man ( a god ) only like all angels, humans, & Idols are! He ( the Real Jesus Christ ) is God-Man as per John 1:1+14 & Heb.1:8 ! Case closed!
 

rod.ney

Well-known member
You are admitting the Word was God and that Jesus was not God before the Word became flesh.
WRONG! Precarnate Jesus Christ " was God " called the WORD in John 1:1! FYI again Incarnate Jesus Christ in John 1:14 is still called the Word in Rev.19:13! Names ( Word, Rock, Jesus, Son of man, Son of God, Savior, Mighty God, everlasting Father, etc. - Jesus was called all these and many more in the scriptures ) h do NOT CHANGE who He is and I posted the verse for you that PROVES that - Jesus Christ the SAME ( Past, Present & Future ) or Yesterday, Today and Forever as ( Heb.13:8 ) tells us so! Case closed! ----------------------------

Hebrews 13:8​

New King James Version​

8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
 

Nathan P

Active member
WRONG! Precarnate Jesus Christ " was God " called the WORD in John 1:1! FYI again Incarnate Jesus Christ in John 1:14 is still called the Word in Rev.19:13! Names ( Word, Rock, Jesus, Son of man, Son of God, Savior, Mighty God, everlasting Father, etc. - Jesus was called all these and many more in the scriptures ) h do NOT CHANGE who He is and I posted the verse for you that PROVES that - Jesus Christ the SAME ( Past, Present & Future ) or Yesterday, Today and Forever as ( Heb.13:8 ) tells us so! Case closed! ----------------------------

Hebrews 13:8​

New King James Version​

8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
No the Word was called God and there was no Jesus until the Word became flesh. You are still saying he was the precarnate Jesus without supplying proof he was called Jesus before the Word became flesh. As for heb. 13:8 that is talking about after the Word became flesh and he was known as Jesus who would be the same yesterday, today and forever.

And what you proved at rev. 19:13 is when John seen him in heaven (see vss 11-13) he was known as the Word of God post resurrection and on earth he was known as Jesus.
 
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rod.ney

Well-known member
No the Word was called God and there was no Jesus until the Word became flesh. You are still saying he was the precarnate Jesus without supplying proof he was called Jesus before the Word became flesh. As for heb. 13:8 that is talking about after the Word became flesh and he was known as Jesus who would be the same yesterday, today and forever.

And what you proved at rev. 19:13 is when John seen him in heaven (see vss 11-13) he was known as the Word of God post resurrection and on earth he was known as Jesus.
FYI again I provided the proof in Heb.13:8! Case closed!
 

rossh

Well-known member
According to jw.org Jesus did create the angels.
When Was Jesus Created, and Why Is He Called God’s Son?

When was Jesus created?​

"God created Jesus before creating Adam. In fact, God created Jesus and then used him to make everything else, including the angels. That is why the Bible calls Jesus “the firstborn of all creation” by God.—Read Colossians 1:15, 16.

Before he was born in Bethlehem, Jesus lived as a spirit creature in heaven. When the time came, God transferred Jesus’ life from heaven to Mary’s womb so that he could be born as a human.—Read Luke 1:30-32; John 6:38; 8:23."

But the Bible says that God created the angels. Nehemiah 9:6, "Thou ALONE art the Lord, Thou hast made the heavens, The heaven of the heavens with all their host. The earth and all that is on it, The seas and all that is in them, Thou dost give life to all of them And the heavenly host bows down before Thee."

So how can Jesus have created the angels since God says He created them? Moreover, we read from the Jw's above , "Jesus lived as a spirit creature in heaven." And who was that spirit creature? It was none other than Jesus as Michael the arc angel who God created. Also notice that the spirit creature Jesus who is also Michael had his life transferred into Mary's womb so that he could be born a human. How do the Jw's reconcile these "glaring" contradictions of the Bible?


In Him,
herman

that is odd the very passage that you have quoted for us, simply disproves what you are attempting to explain,,
 

rossh

Well-known member
A documented man named Jesus only existed about 2,000 years ago and thus Jesus has only existed for around 2,000 years. Now the Word who would be flesh later on could have existed for however long the beginning has been around. Before the beginning only God existed.
yet still wrong.. yet again. HIS Name is Yeshua ( this mean He Saves! ) HE is Hebrew/Jewish NOT Latin... He was killed by the Romans at the request of the Jews.

Matthew 1:17 Thus there were fourteen generations from Avraham to David, fourteen generations from David to the Babylonian Exile, and fourteen generations from the Babylonian Exile to the Messiah.
18 Here is how the birth of Yeshua the Messiah took place. When his mother Miryam was engaged to Yosef, before they were married, she was found to be pregnant from the Ruach HaKodesh.
19 Her husband-to-be, Yosef, was a man who did what was right; so he made plans to break the engagement quietly, rather than put her to public shame.
20 But while he was thinking about this, an angel of ADONAI appeared to him in a dream and said, "Yosef, son of David, do not be afraid to take Miryam home with you as your wife; for what has been conceived in her is from the Ruach HaKodesh.
21 She will give birth to a son, and you are to name him Yeshua, [which means `ADONAI saves,'] because he will save his people from their sins."
22 All this happened in order to fulfill what ADONAI had said through the prophet,
23 "The virgin will conceive and bear a son, and they will call him `Immanu El."a (The name means, "God is with us.")

the above is true and proper translation..
 

jamesh

Well-known member
that is odd the very passage that you have quoted for us, simply disproves what you are attempting to explain,,
I'm quoting what the JW's teach and not what I believe for I'm a Trinitarian. When you scroll down a little bit read all the black lettering where I say, "But the Bible says etc.

IN GOD THE SON,
james
 

Nathan P

Active member
And He is still the Word post resurrection as per Rev.19:13! Thus Case still closed! He is God the Word who created us ( John 1:3/Col.1:16 ) and He was with God the Father & Holy Spirit in John 1:1! And God the Father calls Him " O God " in Heb.1:8
He nothing and I have proven that.
yet still wrong.. yet again. HIS Name is Yeshua ( this mean He Saves! ) HE is Hebrew/Jewish NOT Latin... He was killed by the Romans at the request of the Jews.

Matthew 1:17 Thus there were fourteen generations from Avraham to David, fourteen generations from David to the Babylonian Exile, and fourteen generations from the Babylonian Exile to the Messiah.
18 Here is how the birth of Yeshua the Messiah took place. When his mother Miryam was engaged to Yosef, before they were married, she was found to be pregnant from the Ruach HaKodesh.
19 Her husband-to-be, Yosef, was a man who did what was right; so he made plans to break the engagement quietly, rather than put her to public shame.
20 But while he was thinking about this, an angel of ADONAI appeared to him in a dream and said, "Yosef, son of David, do not be afraid to take Miryam home with you as your wife; for what has been conceived in her is from the Ruach HaKodesh.
21 She will give birth to a son, and you are to name him Yeshua, [which means `ADONAI saves,'] because he will save his people from their sins."
22 All this happened in order to fulfill what ADONAI had said through the prophet,
23 "The virgin will conceive and bear a son, and they will call him `Immanu El."a (The name means, "God is with us.")

the above is true and proper translation..
You still did not provide documentation for one named Jesus before the Word became flesh.
 

Beloved Daughter

Super Member
It is amazing I just proved Jesus was not the creator at John 1 and col. 1 and you all act as if he was without providing evidence like I provided the required evidence. Also creation happened before the Word became flesh as Jesus as you note above and thus Jesus had nothing to do with creation and only the Word had anything to do with creation through God.
Jesus was one of the creators.

Genesis 1: 26

26 Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.
 
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