Did Jesus create the angels?

jamesh

Active member
God created through the Word and Jesus did not exist until billions of years later.
Ok, God created through the Word and Jesus did not exist until billions of years later according to you. Isaiah 44:24 says, "Thus says the Lord your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, I. the Lord, am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens BY MYSELF, And spreading out the earth ALL ALONE."

Since this is true why at Colossians 1:16 say in your NWT, "because by means of him/Jesus Christ all (other) things have been created through him/Jesus Christ and for him." Remember Nathan, there is only one God who is the maker of all things and creating all thing all alone and by Himself.

So what are these "other" things that Jesus created. Look at vs17 in your NWT, "Also, he/Jesus Christ is before all (other) things were made to exists." Explain this "glaring" contradiction?

IN GOD THE SON,
james
 

rod.ney

Well-known member
He nothing and I have proven that.

You still did not provide documentation for one named Jesus before the Word became flesh.
I provided the scriptures that rebukes your Twisted view ( 2 Peter 3:16 ) as per 2 Tim.3:16 that God the Holy Spirit inspired the Apostle Paul to write! Case closed! Precarnate Jesus Christ " was God " the Word in John 1:1, who " was with God " the Father & Holy Spirit! Then He became " Flesh " ( incarnate ) as the God-Man then called Jesus Christ in John 1:14, and is still also named " the WORD " in Rev.19:13!
 

rossh

Well-known member
Jesus was one of the creators.

Genesis 1: 26

26 Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.
Yeshua IS one of The Creators ( let us make " man " in OUR OWN IMAGE AND LIKENESS )

26:26 Then God said, "Let us make humankind in our image, in the likeness of ourselves; and let them rule over the fish in the sea, the birds in the air, the animals, and over all the earth, and over every crawling creature that crawls on the earth."
27 So God created humankind in his own image; in the image of God he created him: male and female he created them.
28 God blessed them: God said to them, "Be fruitful, multiply, fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea, the birds in the air and every living creature that crawls on the earth."

US - OURSELVES,, 27,
 

rossh

Well-known member
Jesus was one of the creators.

Genesis 1: 26

26 Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.
maybe God was talking to the Angels as well ? Well the bad one, Lucifer thought himself to be God by being so great and beautiful like light ..
Lucifer is depicted as a powerful but proud angel who leads a revolt against heaven. Middle English, the morning star, a fallen rebel archangel, the Devil, from Old English, from Latin, the morning star, from lucifer light-bearing, from luc-, lux light + -fer -ferous — more at light Which is the correct spelling?
 

Beloved Daughter

Super Member
God created through the Word and Jesus did not exist until billions of years later.
Complete nonsense. Do you have any scripture that supports this view? Of course you don't. I've read my Bible cover-to-cover many, many times and this idea is nowhere to be found.
 

Nathan P

Active member
Complete nonsense. Do you have any scripture that supports this view? Of course you don't. I've read my Bible cover-to-cover many, many times and this idea is nowhere to be found.
It has been proven many times that there was only a documented Jesus after the Word became flesh and no one can prove with documentation there was one named Jesus or the Son of God before the Word became flesh. Meaning Jesus has only existed for about 2,000 years.
 

Nathan P

Active member
I provided the scriptures that rebukes your Twisted view ( 2 Peter 3:16 ) as per 2 Tim.3:16 that God the Holy Spirit inspired the Apostle Paul to write! Case closed! Precarnate Jesus Christ " was God " the Word in John 1:1, who " was with God " the Father & Holy Spirit! Then He became " Flesh " ( incarnate ) as the God-Man then called Jesus Christ in John 1:14, and is still also named " the WORD " in Rev.19:13!
I said to provide documentation of one named Jesus before the Word became flesh instead of offering as your proof someone who was inspired to write your purported proof. The Word was God because as the Word the Word was the Word of God and not Jesus because as you have been told only after the Word became flesh is there a documented Jesus.
 

Nathan P

Active member
Ok, God created through the Word and Jesus did not exist until billions of years later according to you. Isaiah 44:24 says, "Thus says the Lord your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, I. the Lord, am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens BY MYSELF, And spreading out the earth ALL ALONE."

Since this is true why at Colossians 1:16 say in your NWT, "because by means of him/Jesus Christ all (other) things have been created through him/Jesus Christ and for him." Remember Nathan, there is only one God who is the maker of all things and creating all thing all alone and by Himself.

So what are these "other" things that Jesus created. Look at vs17 in your NWT, "Also, he/Jesus Christ is before all (other) things were made to exists." Explain this "glaring" contradiction?

IN GOD THE SON,
james
It has been proven the subject is the Father from col. 1: 1-17 and thus the by him, for him and through him are referring to the Father. And notice it says him at col. 1: 15 or 16 because the him is the Word who the Father created things through. That is why it does not say Jesus there because there was not a documented Jesus until the Word became flesh.
 

Beloved Daughter

Super Member
It has been proven many times that there was only a documented Jesus after the Word became flesh and no one can prove with documentation there was one named Jesus or the Son of God before the Word became flesh. Meaning Jesus has only existed for about 2,000 years.
Your zeal for your beliefs are evident. But the only thing that matters is the Holy Bible. You can't claim any relationship with God until you figure out where it comes from. Your ideas are mere speculation, the Bible teaches facts in this particular matter.

I sincerely hope you will find the real Jesus. You need Him desperately.
 

Nathan P

Active member
Your zeal for your beliefs are evident. But the only thing that matters is the Holy Bible. You can't claim any relationship with God until you figure out where it comes from. Your ideas are mere speculation, the Bible teaches facts in this particular matter.

I sincerely hope you will find the real Jesus. You need Him desperately.
My ideas are pure speculation? Then why can't any of you provide clear scriptures that there was one named Jesus or the Son of God before the Word became flesh? Until you can the only documentation of one named Jesus goes back about 2,000 years.
 

Nathan P

Active member
I provided the scriptures that rebukes your Twisted view ( 2 Peter 3:16 ) as per 2 Tim.3:16 that God the Holy Spirit inspired the Apostle Paul to write! Case closed! Precarnate Jesus Christ " was God " the Word in John 1:1, who " was with God " the Father & Holy Spirit! Then He became " Flesh " ( incarnate ) as the God-Man then called Jesus Christ in John 1:14, and is still also named " the WORD " in Rev.19:13!
You provided nothing because the Word became flesh and only then was there a Jesus. Nowhere does it say Jesus was God before the Word became flesh because Jesus did not exist until the Word became flesh.
 

Nathan P

Active member
Ok, God created through the Word and Jesus did not exist until billions of years later according to you. Isaiah 44:24 says, "Thus says the Lord your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, I. the Lord, am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens BY MYSELF, And spreading out the earth ALL ALONE."

Since this is true why at Colossians 1:16 say in your NWT, "because by means of him/Jesus Christ all (other) things have been created through him/Jesus Christ and for him." Remember Nathan, there is only one God who is the maker of all things and creating all thing all alone and by Himself.

So what are these "other" things that Jesus created. Look at vs17 in your NWT, "Also, he/Jesus Christ is before all (other) things were made to exists." Explain this "glaring" contradiction?

IN GOD THE SON,
james
No it does not say Jesus created things at col. 1:16 and instead it says him because the him is referring to the Word. The reason it does not say Jesus created things is because Jesus did not exist until after the Word became flesh.
 

Nathan P

Active member
maybe God was talking to the Angels as well ? Well the bad one, Lucifer thought himself to be God by being so great and beautiful like light ..
Lucifer is depicted as a powerful but proud angel who leads a revolt against heaven. Middle English, the morning star, a fallen rebel archangel, the Devil, from Old English, from Latin, the morning star, from lucifer light-bearing, from luc-, lux light + -fer -ferous — more at light Which is the correct spelling?
No the Word was one of the creators because Jesus did not exist at the time.
 

rossh

Well-known member
No the Word was one of the creators because Jesus did not exist at the time.
Yes indeed God Spoke and it happened..
Gen 1:3 Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light. - 6 God said, "Let there be a dome in the middle of the water; let it divide the water from the water."
we already know this, thank you very much..
GOD SPOKE ACTUAL WORDS!!
Yes no Yeshua at that time of course, Matthew 1:1 This is the genealogy of Yeshua the Messiah, son of David, son of Avraham:
2 Avraham was the father of Yitz'chak, Yitz'chak was the father of Ya`akov, Ya`akov was the father of Y'hudah and his brothers,
3 Y'hudah was the father of Peretz and Zerach (their mother was Tamar), Peretz was the father of Hetzron, Hetzron was the father of Ram,
4 Ram was the father of `Amminadav, `Amminadav was the father of Nachshon, Nachshon was the father of Salmon,
5 Salmon was the father of Bo`az (his mother was Rachav), Bo`az was the father of `Oved (his mother was Rut), `Oved was the father of Yishai,
6 Yishai was the father of David the king. David was the father of Shlomo (his mother was the wife of Uriyah),
7 Shlomo was the father of Rechav`am, Rechav`am was the father of Aviyah, Aviyah was the father of Asa,
8 Asa was the father of Y'hoshafat, Y'hoshafat was the father of Yoram, Yoram was the father of `Uziyahu,
9 `Uziyahu was the father of Yotam, Yotam was the father of Achaz, Achaz was the father of Hizkiyahu,
10 Hizkiyahu was the father of M'nasheh, M'nasheh was the father of Amon, Amon was the father of Yoshiyahu,
11 Yoshiyahu was the father of Y'khanyahu and his brothers at the time of the Exile to Bavel.
12 After the Babylonian Exile, Y'khanyahu was the father of Sh'altiel, Sh'altiel was the father of Z'rubavel,
13 Z'rubavel was the father of Avihud, Avihud was the father of Elyakim, Elyakim was the father of `Azur,
14 `Azur was the father of Tzadok, Tzadok was the father of Yakhin, Yakhin was the father of El'ichud,
15 El'ichud was the father of El`azar, El`azar was the father of Mattan, Mattan was the father of Ya`akov,
16 Ya`akov was the father of Yosef the husband of Miryam, from whom was born the Yeshua who was called the Messiah.
17 Thus there were fourteen generations from Avraham to David, fourteen generations from David to the Babylonian Exile, and fourteen generations from the Babylonian Exile to the Messiah.
18 Here is how the birth of Yeshua the Messiah took place. When his mother Miryam was engaged to Yosef, before they were married, she was found to be pregnant from the Ruach HaKodesh.
19 Her husband-to-be, Yosef, was a man who did what was right; so he made plans to break the engagement quietly, rather than put her to public shame.
20 But while he was thinking about this, an angel of ADONAI appeared to him in a dream and said, "Yosef, son of David, do not be afraid to take Miryam home with you as your wife; for what has been conceived in her is from the Ruach HaKodesh.
21 She will give birth to a son, and you are to name him Yeshua, [which means `ADONAI saves,'] because he will save his people from their sins."
22 All this happened in order to fulfill what ADONAI had said through the prophet,
23 "The virgin will conceive and bear a son, and they will call him `Immanu El."a (The name means, "God is with us.")

we already know about this as well... Please tell us something NEW ?
What you seem to not want to recognize is this
Isa 46:4 Till your old age I will be the same - I will carry you until your hair is white. I have made you, and I will bear you; yes, I will carry and save you.
5 To whom will you liken me and equate me? With whom will you compare me, as if we were similar?"
6 They squander the gold from their bags and weigh silver on a scale; they hire a goldsmith to make a god, before which they fall down and worship!
7 It is borne on shoulders and carried, then set in its place; and there it stands. From its place it does not move. If one cries to it, it cannot answer or save anyone from his troubles.
8 Remember this, and stand firm. Keep it in mind, you rebels.
9 "Remember things that happened at the beginning, long ago - that I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me.
10 At the beginning I announce the end, proclaim in advance things not yet done; and I say that my plan will hold, I will do everything I please to do.
11 I call a bird of prey from the east, the man I intended, from a distant country. I have spoken and will bring it about; I have made a plan, and I will fulfill it.
12 Listen to me, you stubborn people, so far from righteousness:
13 I am bringing my justice nearer, it is not far away; my salvation will not be delayed, I will place my salvation in Tziyon for Isra'el my glory.

The above is true, and I can not say that any better.
 

rossh

Well-known member
Jesus was one of the creators.

Genesis 1: 26

26 Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.

Isa 46:8 Remember this, and stand firm. Keep it in mind, you rebels.
9 "Remember things that happened at the beginning, long ago - that I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me.
10 At the beginning I announce the end, proclaim in advance things not yet done; and I say that my plan will hold, I will do everything I please to do.
11 I call a bird of prey from the east, the man I intended, from a distant country. I have spoken and will bring it about; I have made a plan, and I will fulfill it.
12 Listen to me, you stubborn people, so far from righteousness:
13 I am bringing my justice nearer, it is not far away; my salvation will not be delayed, I will place my salvation in Tziyon for Isra'el my glory.

anything else is superfluous !!
 
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