Did Jesus create the angels?

rod.ney

Well-known member
I said to provide documentation of one named Jesus before the Word became flesh instead of offering as your proof someone who was inspired to write your purported proof. The Word was God because as the Word the Word was the Word of God and not Jesus because as you have been told only after the Word became flesh is there a documented Jesus.
FYI precarnate Jesus ( as the Word - who took on a temporary body ) fought with Jacob in Gen. chapter 32!
 

rod.ney

Well-known member
You provided nothing because the Word became flesh and only then was there a Jesus. Nowhere does it say Jesus was God before the Word became flesh because Jesus did not exist until the Word became flesh.
Precarnate Jesus spoke to Moses as a burning bush in Exodus 3:14!
 

QuestionEverything

Active member
Heb 1:1- In many and various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets;
2- but in these last days He has spoken to us by a Son, whom He appointed the heir of all things, through whom also He created the world.

[Note how, as usual, Jesus is being spoken of SEPARATE from God? Notice that in the in the original translation - RSV- the capital game is played; putting the references to the Son in caps, while God himself is referred to in lower case, to add to the illusion!]

3- He reflects the glory of God and bears the very stamp of His nature, upholding the universe by His word of power. When he had made purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
4- having become as much superior to angels as the name he has obtained is more excellent than theirs.
 

QuestionEverything

Active member
I've read the bible, and know of no place in Hebrews where it states that Jesus is an angel. Enlighten me, or concede the fact that you're seeing things that simply are not there.
Mal 3:1- Behold, I send my messenger to prepare the way before me,
and Jehovah whom you seek will suddenly come to his temple;
the ANGEL of the covenant in whom you delight, behold, he is coming,
says Jehovah of hosts. 2- But who can endure the day of his coming,
and who can stand when he appears?
 

QuestionEverything

Active member
Jesus SPEAKS as Archangel...as he LEADS the other Messengers (angels)... (1Thess 4)

An ANGEL is NOT some kind of winged species- the "wings" are only seen in the symbolic visions- depicting fast travel anywhere.
The Hebrew and Greek words translated as "angel" mean ONLY "messenger"- thus even men of God are called such- such as John the Baptist, Christ, and elders in the congregations.
Jesus was the very GREATEST of all God's MESSENGERS (angels) even referred to as God's APOSTLE. He had a name before being GIVEN the name "Jesus"....They don't want to connect the dots....
 

shnarkle

Well-known member
Mal 3:1- Behold, I send my messenger to prepare the way before me,
and Jehovah whom you seek will suddenly come to his temple;
the ANGEL of the covenant in whom you delight, behold, he is coming,
says Jehovah of hosts. 2- But who can endure the day of his coming,
and who can stand when he appears?
That's not Hebrews, but thanks for the quote from Malachi.
 

Nathan P

Active member
I've read the bible, and know of no place in Hebrews where it states that Jesus is an angel. Enlighten me, or concede the fact that you're seeing things that simply are not there.
Read rev. 5: 1- 11 and only Jesus is worthy to take the scroll from the Father and know what is in it. Next go to rev. 19:9 and the angel tells John write because these are the true words words from God, then go to rev. 22:6 -10 and at vs 10 the angel says do not seal up these words you have written from this scroll which is a continuation of 19:9, then read all of chapter 17 and the angel tells John about what is going to happen soon from the scroll. Since only Jesus is worthy to know what is in the scroll and the angel tells John about the scroll, then the angel has to be Jesus, then go to rev. 1 and God gives it to Jesus to tell them what will happen soon, then go to rev. 22:6 and an angel is sent to tell them what will happen soon. Meaning Jesus is the angel sent at rev. 22:6 because Jesus is to tell them what will happen soon, then go to the first of rev.1 and after it was given to Jesus one angel was sent to John about what God wants them to know, then shortly after that it says John was a witness to Jesus about the word of God. Meaning since only one angel was sent to John and John was a witness to only one and that was Jesus about the word of God then the angel sent and Jesus had to be one and the same because you can not have 2 of them telling John about the word of God at the same time.
 

rod.ney

Well-known member
We are not talking about a voice but instead an actual entity.
He ( Precarnate Jesus Christ ) " was God " ( John 1:1 - a Divine entity and not just a voice, but the 2nd Divine Person of the TRINITY, the one True GOD of the scriptures who said " US & OUR " in Gen.1:26 ) when He spoke to Moses as a burning bush in Exodus 3:14! He told Moses that He as God is to be called " I AM ", which is EXACTLY what He ( Incarnate Jesus Christ of John 1:14 ) told the unbelievers ( " I Am " ) in John 8:58 in order for Him ( Precarnate Jesus Christ of John 1:1 ) to have personally known Abraham before Abraham was born! He also took on a temporary human body to wrestle with Jacob in Gen. chapter 32 before He became Permanently Incarnate in John 1:14! Case closed!
 

rod.ney

Well-known member
He created all things in heaven and on earth and not all things like the earth or heaven.
All things were in FACT made/Created through/By Him ( precarnate Jesus Christ who " was God " the Word in John 1:1 ) as per John 1:3/Col.1:16! Case closed! ----------------------------------

John 1:3​

New International Version​

3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. ---------------------- --------------------------------------------

Colossians 1:16​

New International Version​

16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.
 
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