He knew as the Word he had glory with the Father then. You are still failing to clearly document where there was a Son of God before the Word became flesh and can only find scriptures that you want them to infer them to what you want them to say?
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Did Jesus create the angels?
- Thread starter jamesh
- Start date
I can see how this argument works with regards to Jesus because Jesus wasn't even named until eight days after he was born. However, God is unchanging so I don't see how he could become a father. The word is eternal, therefore he has always proceeded from the father. If not, then God spent eternity alone until he said his first word.He knew as the Word he had glory with the Father then. You are still failing to clearly document where there was a Son of God before the Word became flesh and can only find scriptures that you want them to infer them to what you want them to say?
The point you all still miss is if there was Son of God before the Word became flesh God would have surely documented it, like he did after the Word became flesh.I can see how this argument works with regards to Jesus because Jesus wasn't even named until eight days after he was born. However, God is unchanging so I don't see how he could become a father. The word is eternal, therefore he has always proceeded from the father. If not, then God spent eternity alone until he said his first word.
He knew as the Word he had glory with the Father then. You are still failing to clearly document where there was a Son of God before the Word became flesh and can only find scriptures that you want them to infer them to what you want them to say?
I didn't infer anything - Jesus said what He said. The Word = the Person of Jesus Christ.
Continuing from the above: In John 17:5 (and 24), Jesus is speaking as both the Word and the Son, and that's because He is both and always has been. There's never been a time when the Father wasn't the Father; there's never been a time when the Son wasn't the Son. This is simply following the verse.
Hebrews 1:3 speaks of Jesus Christ - the Son - being the exact and/or perfect representation of the being and nature of God. Everything the Father is the Son is. One of those "everythings" is that the Father is eternal. Therefore so is the Son. You can't have an eternal Father without having an eternal Son. Again, that's simply following the verse.
Hebrews 1:3 speaks of Jesus Christ - the Son - being the exact and/or perfect representation of the being and nature of God. Everything the Father is the Son is. One of those "everythings" is that the Father is eternal. Therefore so is the Son. You can't have an eternal Father without having an eternal Son. Again, that's simply following the verse.
It is documented. Christ says he is the Alpha and the Omega. He never says he began and ended. John says that: "in the beginning was the word". He didn't say, 'In the beginning was god". To say 'in the beginning was the word" is not the same as saying "the word began".The point you all still miss is if there was Son of God before the Word became flesh God would have surely documented it, like he did after the Word became flesh.
Logically, existence is necessarily eternal. To claim otherwise is to contradict oneself, e.g. existence doesn't exist. There can be no beginning or end to existence, only things can begin and end.
The Alpha and the Omega is not the same as the Son of God. You know there is nothing to document that there was a Son of God before the Word became flesh and you have to keep making scriptures say what they do not say.It is documented. Christ says he is the Alpha and the Omega. He never says he began and ended. John says that: "in the beginning was the word". He didn't say, 'In the beginning was god". To say 'in the beginning was the word" is not the same as saying "the word began".
Logically, existence is necessarily eternal. To claim otherwise is to contradict oneself, e.g. existence doesn't exist. There can be no beginning or end to existence, only things can begin and end.
What essential or effective difference is there? Words emanate from God just like sons come from fathers.The Alpha and the Omega is not the same as the Son of God.
The metaphors used by Christ himself refute your baseless claims.You know there is nothing to document that there was a Son of God before the Word became flesh and you have to keep making scriptures say what they do not say.
Who told John to write "in the beginning was the Word"?It is documented. Christ says he is the Alpha and the Omega. He never says he began and ended. John says that: "in the beginning was the word". He didn't say, 'In the beginning was god". To say 'in the beginning was the word" is not the same as saying "the word began".
Logically, existence is necessarily eternal. To claim otherwise is to contradict oneself, e.g. existence doesn't exist. There can be no beginning or end to existence, only things can begin and end.
Are you ever going to make a point? I'm not interested in replying to rhetorical questions which have no point to them.Who told John to write "in the beginning was the Word"?
The point is John did not say that and that someone else did and he wrote down what that person said.Are you ever going to make a point? I'm not interested in replying to rhetorical questions which have no point to them.
We do not know what God did before 'in the beginning'. He could have other worlds so far out there that there is zero chance of any contact between civilizations.I can see how this argument works with regards to Jesus because Jesus wasn't even named until eight days after he was born. However, God is unchanging so I don't see how he could become a father. The word is eternal, therefore he has always proceeded from the father. If not, then God spent eternity alone until he said his first word.
And what is the point of this supposed point?The point is John did not say that and that someone else did and he wrote down what that person said.
There is no "before" before the beginning, nor is there an "after" after the end.We do not know what God did before 'in the beginning'.
Yes there was time before the beginning because there are 3 heavens and only the heaven with the earth , stars etc., is in the first heaven and what is in the other 2 heavens we do not know, except that God resides in one of the .other 2.And what is the point of this supposed point?
There is no "before" before the beginning, nor is there an "after" after the end.
Fallacy of Begging the Question. You're assuming that "in the beginning" isn't referring to the beginning at all. There's no reason to assume that. There is no such thing as time before the beginning of time, nor time after the end of time. Nothing exists outside of space either. These are blatant contradictions. Your arguments are incoherent and contradictory.Yes there was time before the beginning because there are 3 heavens and only the heaven with the earth , stars etc., is in the first heaven and what is in the other 2 heavens we do not know, except that God resides in one of the .other 2.
Kai theos en ho logos. And (kai) God (theos) was (en) the Word (logos). Hope this helpsJohn says that "the word was god", but he never claims that God was the word, does he? It's a one way street.
Helps what? John didn't claim that God was the word.Kai theos en ho logos. And (kai) God (theos) was (en) the Word (logos). Hope this helps
OKHelps what? John didn't claim that God was the word.
In the beginning means in the beginning and not before or after the time frame of in the beginning.Fallacy of Begging the Question. You're assuming that "in the beginning" isn't referring to the beginning at all. There's no reason to assume that. There is no such thing as time before the beginning of time, nor time after the end of time. Nothing exists outside of space either. These are blatant contradictions. Your arguments are incoherent and contradictory.
The point is an angel told John information of what to write and only Jesus knew that information rev. 5: 1-10 or 11 and since only Jesus knew that information then the angel who told John that information had to have been Jesus.And what is the point of this supposed point?
There is no "before" before the beginning, nor is there an "after" after the end.