Did Jesus Die To Atone For Judas's Sins Too?

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Is not that meaning, it's value?
The Sacrifice as Sufficient for all, is only a Theory...

But we do say it all the time, don't we...

If we say it all the time, we believe it or are Patronizing them...
 
Last edited:
T

TomFL

Guest
Again, is not that meaning it's value?

Answer: Yes it is.


Christ and the apostles taught a limited atonement. It's only natural for fallen man to develop a system contrary to God's.
Not if you believe scripture


Christ died short list

Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
2 Corinthians 5:14–15
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
1 Timothy 2:4–6
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Isaiah 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned every one to his own way; And the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
John 6:51
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
John 11:51
And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
2 Corinthians 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.


Exported from Logos Bible Software, 12:22 PM April 29, 2021.
 

Carbon

Well-known member
Chapter and verse, please?
You probably know he is referring to Matt 19:27-28

27 Then Peter said in reply, “See, we have left everything and followed you. What then will we have?” 28 Jesus said to them, “Truly, I say to you, in the new world, when the Son of Man will sit on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

But we know Jesus didn't say, "you twelve." But instead, "you who have followed Me will sit on twelve thrones, he also did not say, "your twelve thrones."

Just thought I would mention this. I'm sure your already aware. :)
 

Carbon

Well-known member
That would be a surprise to

Calvin
Johnathan Edwards
Hodge
WGT Shedd
Dabney
A. H. Strong

others

Per David Allen
No, it wouldn't be a surprise to to any one of them. Just to people like yourself that don't understand.

{EDIT} well to be more precise. It wouldn't be a surprise to:
Calvin, Edwards, Hodge..
Not very familiar with the others.

Now you can title anyone how one likes, 4 point Calvinist, 3 pointer, etc... But that does not mean they are a Calvinist.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Is not that meaning, it's value?
I believe Christs death was only purposely sufficient for those God had given to Christ to redeem. Jn 17:2

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

Not a drop of precious blood was shed for the reprobate headed to perdition !
 
T

TomFL

Guest
No, it wouldn't be a surprise to to any one of them. Just to people like yourself that don't understand.

{EDIT} well to be more precise. It wouldn't be a surprise to:
Calvin, Edwards, Hodge..
Not very familiar with the others.

Now you can title anyone how one likes, 4 point Calvinist, 3 pointer, etc... But that does not mean they are a Calvinist.
Are you saying those were not Calvinists

Calvin, Edwards, Hodge..
 
T

TomFL

Guest
I believe Christs death was only purposely sufficient for those God had given to Christ to redeem. Jn 17:2

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

Not a drop of precious blood was shed for the reprobate headed to perdition !
You seem to think the amount of blood shed depends on the number of the redeemed

That is a rather crass commercial theory of atonement
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
You seem to think the amount of blood shed depends on the number of the redeemed

That is a rather crass commercial theory of atonement
God is just, the blood covered the sins of everyone of the Elect. No blood was shed for the non elect goats, the children of perdition !
 

Carbon

Well-known member
God is just, the blood covered the sins of everyone of the Elect.
Of course it did, because the elect are those given to Christ to atone for. It couldn't possibly be any other way.
No blood was shed for the non elect goats, the children of perdition !
Blood was shed, it's just the reprobate aren't covered by the blood.

Though the blood is sufficient, it was not efficient for the reprobate.

I agree, just throwing in my two cents....
 
T

TomFL

Guest
Of course it did, because the elect are those given to Christ to atone for. It couldn't possibly be any other way.

Blood was shed, it's just the reprobate aren't covered by the blood.

Though the blood is sufficient, it was not efficient for the reprobate.

I agree, just throwing in my two cents....
2 Peter 2:1 (ESV)
1 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
carbon

Though the blood is sufficient, it was not efficient for the reprobate.

I dont believe it was even sufficient for the non elect, I believe its sufficiency and efficiency was guided by the purpose of God in saving the elect. Here's an article I commend for your reading. Its 3 parts to it, I found it very edifying.


BTW the way, just because i recommend a author for on some points, doesnt mean I endorse all their beliefs.
 

Carbon

Well-known member
2 Peter 2:1 (ESV)
1 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.
You've been caught.

These people were the people of Israel who had received the law to direct, and guide there lives according to it, and amongst them rose false prophets. Just as there will be false teachers among us, who will lead men away from the foundation of faith and eternal life.

But: these false teachers will secretly bring in false teachings.
who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them

I know your pointing at "even denying the Master who bought them." But I assure you, these are not as you think.
It's quite obvious actually.

1) they secretly bring in destructive heresies.
2) They deny their (professed) Master who bought them.


The obvious shines brightly here. False teachers, secretly bringing in heretical teachings, and denying Christ.
Titus has a great answer here:
They profess to know God, but they deny him by their works. They are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good work. Titus 1:16.

What was your point?
 

Carbon

Well-known member
carbon



I dont believe it was even sufficient for the non elect, I believe its sufficiency and efficiency was guided by the purpose of God in saving the elect. Here's an article I commend for your reading. Its 3 parts to it, I found it very edifying.


BTW the way, just because i recommend a author for on some points, doesnt mean I endorse all their beliefs.
Thanks for the reference.
I will try to find the time to read it.

:)
 
T

TomFL

Guest
You've been caught.

These people were the people of Israel who had received the law to direct, and guide there lives according to it, and amongst them rose false prophets. Just as there will be false teachers among us, who will lead men away from the foundation of faith and eternal life.

But: these false teachers will secretly bring in false teachings.
who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them

I know your pointing at "even denying the Master who bought them." But I assure you, these are not as you think.
It's quite obvious actually.

1) they secretly bring in destructive heresies.
2) They deny their (professed) Master who bought them.


The obvious shines brightly here. False teachers, secretly bringing in heretical teachings, and denying Christ.
Titus has a great answer here:
They profess to know God, but they deny him by their works. They are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good work. Titus 1:16.

What was your point?

The master who bought them - Christ

Parallel passage

Jude 1:4 (ESV)
4 For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.




Christ bought the false prophets
 

Carbon

Well-known member
The master who bought them - Christ

Parallel passage

Jude 1:4 (ESV)
4 For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.




Christ bought the false prophets
John 10: “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door but climbs in by another way, that man is a thief and a robber. 2 But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 To him the gatekeeper opens. The sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4 When he has brought out all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. 5 A stranger they will not follow, but they will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers.”
 
Top