Did Jesus spiritually die at the cross?

JNelson

Well-known member
Interesting that Christ's parables always compared it to a debt.

The point is not that we need money to pay off God.
Right, the parables that emphasizes that the one forgiven is not required to pay anything nor does anyone else pay the bill for him, it’s simply erased, forgiven.
 

Yahchristian

Well-known member
If you deny this, you deny God has equal weights and measures.

If you deny this, you deny that God's holiness always requires the same punishment for sin.

If you deny this, you deny that Jesus took the punishment of what sin deserves.

If you deny this, Jesus got off with less than you do for the same sins!

I gave reasons for my yes, and this is the wrath of God against all ungodliness.

It's very strange and demonic that anyone would deny God's justice and give their own atonement a big discount.

Are you seriously unable to give a simple YES or NO answer to the question...

Did Jesus experience the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone?
 

Caroljeen

Well-known member
Saved from wrath through him. We get wrath but Jesus doesn't makes absolutely no sense.

I defend PSA here:

I think the "wrath of God" is how we view the punishment that comes from God. From God's point of view it would be more like something he has to do that grieves and saddens him.

I'll read through your posts.
 

Dizerner

Well-known member
@Dizerner started this thread by asking the Yes/No question...

Did Jesus spiritually die at the cross?

Yet he is unable to answer this Yes/No question...

Did Jesus experience the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone?

Are YOU able to.

Stop lying and bearing false witness.

I even used your magic "yes" word this time which is not necessary to convey affirmation of a proposition.

I don't want to have to report you, not that they ever listen to me anyway.
 

Dizerner

Well-known member
@Dizerner started this thread by asking the Yes/No question...

Did Jesus spiritually die at the cross?

Yet he is unable to answer this Yes/No question...

Did Jesus experience the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone?

Are YOU able to.

Please watch this and understand what is wrong:

 

Yahchristian

Well-known member
Stop lying and bearing false witness.

I even used your magic "yes" word this time which is not necessary to convey affirmation of a proposition.

I don't want to have to report you, not that they ever listen to me anyway.

Magic “yes”? 😁

Now Yes/No questions are difficult for Trinitarians.

So tell me, when you asked...

Did Jesus spiritually die at the cross?

Were you expecting people to answer with a “magic” yes or no... or NOT?

P.S. In English, questions that begin with “Did” are Yes or No questions.
 

Lilel01

Well-known member
Was Jesus two persons in one: one of flesh and another of spirit inside of it?
Have you now made the trinity into four, two jesuses, one spirit and one father?
 

Dizerner

Well-known member
Exactly Lilel01, everything Jesus was he was as a unified single Person.

And so everything that happened to his humanity also happened to his divinity.
 

Lilel01

Well-known member
Jesus did not have any "divinity" while he was a man; that is a fantasy. This is what the Scriptures say:

Phil. 2:7 (...) he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and became human. 8 More than that, when he came as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death, yes, death on a torture stake. 9 For this very reason, God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name, 10 so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend—of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground— 11 and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.
 

Dizerner

Well-known member
Jesus did not have any "divinity" while he was a man; that is a fantasy. This is what the Scriptures say:

Phil. 2:7 (...) he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and became human. 8 More than that, when he came as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death, yes, death on a torture stake. 9 For this very reason, God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name, 10 so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend—of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground— 11 and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.

He had life and timelessness in himself, no created thing has that by definition.
 

Lilel01

Well-known member
He had life and timelessness in himself, no created thing has that by definition.
Biblical base of that statement?

Are you the one who is going to decide what a created being can receive from God or not?

John 5:26 For just as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted also to the Son to have life in himself. 27 And he has given him authority to do judging, because he is the Son of man.

Do not be afraid to question the doctrine of the trinity. It IS NOT a biblical teaching, so the fear you have is not of the truth, but a fear of your religious leaders and theologians. Do you want to please God or men? Everyone who seeks the truth has to face enemies.
 

Yahchristian

Well-known member
Exactly Lilel01, everything Jesus was he was as a unified single Person.

And so everything that happened to his humanity also happened to his divinity.

Just to verify your Trinitarian view...

Was Jesus’ divinity born of Mary?

I say No.

Luke 1:31... And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
 

Dizerner

Well-known member
Just to verify your Trinitarian view...

Was Jesus’ divinity born of Mary?

I say No.

Luke 1:31... And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

JESUS WAS GOD.

Figure out whether that is "yes" or "no," I believe in you deductive abilities.

 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
Biblical base of that statement?

Are you the one who is going to decide what a created being can receive from God or not?

John 5:26 For just as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted also to the Son to have life in himself. 27 And he has given him authority to do judging, because he is the Son of man.

Do not be afraid to question the doctrine of the trinity. It IS NOT a biblical teaching, so the fear you have is not of the truth, but a fear of your religious leaders and theologians. Do you want to please God or men? Everyone who seeks the truth has to face enemies.
So BOTH Father and Son have life in themselves.
 

OldShepherd

Well-known member
Posted previously this thread.
FWIW I believe that in order for all that was written about Jesus to be true, Jesus had to experience every aspect of being human including the experience of dying. How God did that I will not comment on. After all God is omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent.
Hebrews 4:15
(15) For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.​
 
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