Did Jesus teach he was GOD himself?

DoctrinesofGraceBapt

Well-known member
Some attributes of God were attributed to men being made in his image.
And what attributes are they?
DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
Other's are not. Being three persons is not one of those attributes that are given to men.
Where did you get that the trinity of persons is an attribute of God?
This trinity attribute belongs to each person in the godhead?
And why wouldn't mankind be made in that image as well?

Talk about over analyzing everything to the point of understanding nothing.

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
I'm guessing you don't believe three persons who are the same God is possible.
I don't. Just based on Jesus being on earth vs. God in heaven, ie, location, different thrones, one person praying and worshipping another in the godhead vs. not reciprocated, etc., shows me it's not true.

That's a lot that of things that don't apply at all. "location, different thrones, one person praying and worshipping another in the godhead" are all expected given an incarnation of one member of a Trinity.

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
Can you give a reason why you don't think it's possible?
I'm waiting for you to explain why man was made in a partial image of God

That's easy, If we were a perfect image, then we would be God. We are not God, therefore, we are not a perfect image.

God Bless
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
So, why do you keep on saying we believe in three Gods?
because the Athanasian creed says you must acknowledge each person by himself is God but you are forbidden to say three Gods...Clear as day...
Yes, the real issue is truth, not possibility, but you don't seem to be able to assess our claims of truth because you keep on jumping to three Gods as opposed to three persons who are the same God.
The Athanasian creed says each person by himself is God. You cannot override the Athanasian creed.
How can you show three persons who are the same God is false if all of your arguments circle around three Gods?
You are teaching contrary to your Athanasian creed.
1. Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith;
19. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord;
20. So are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say; There are three Gods or three Lords.



What part of believing in three persons who are the same God is so hard for you to grasp?
The part that you are teaching that is contrary to the Athanasian Creed. Each person by himself is God.
An absurd statement.
That is a statement of fact... You seem not to know that each person by himself is God
The Creed states:
But the divinity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one,
It also states...19. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord;
This is synonymous to "they are all the same God". Perhaps, I know more about Trinitarianism than you do.
Nope. It means they are each divine. 19. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord;
"But the divinity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one," That makes them the same God, not three Gods.
No that means three divine Gods agree as one. Because19. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord;
"But the divinity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one," That makes them the same God, not three Gods.
You cannot override 19. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord;
Else you are not saved...1. Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith;
I'm making a point. It's a classical form of argumentation: reductio ad absurdum. Look it up. My point is that only certain aspects are attributed to men for being in him. Mark 2:28 declares Jesus is "Lord even of the Sabbath". So, are we Lord? Is that our title? How exactly are you Lord? Are you saying Jesus isn't special at all? Just as Jesus is Lord, his disciples are Lord? "Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." Philippians 2: 9-11. Is this applicable to us? No, I think you realize that there are somethings special about Jesus that are not ever attributed to his followers. This is clearly one of them. You're just not willing to admit your error. Jesus is Lord in such a way that his authority even applies to the Sabbath, and such makes him God.

God Bless
You seem to forget that believers are in Christ just as Christ is in God.
1 Corinthians 6:3
Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
Talk about over analyzing everything to the point of understanding nothing.
Why do say that? Because you can't explain yourself?

You've said being 3 persons is a attribute of God based on what? And since each person is God, why wouldn't they be 3 themselves?

That's a lot that of things that don't apply at all. "location, different thrones, one person praying and worshipping another in the godhead" are all expected given an incarnation of one member of a Trinity.
So the persons are different and at least one isn't truly God. God worships no one, but Jesus does.

It's expected God worships no one and bows to no one. It's in the commandments throughout Tanakh.

That's easy, If we were a perfect image, then we would be God. We are not God, therefore, we are not a perfect image.
Then Jesus isn't a perfect image of God as you've proved above.

BTW, I think you confuse image with essence.

God Bless
Likewise.
 
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Tanachreader

Well-known member
Why do say that? Because you can't explain yourself?

You've said being 3 persons is a attribute of God based on what? And since each person is God, why wouldn't they be 3 themselves?


So the persons are different and at least one isn't truly God. God worships no one, but Jesus does.

It's expected God worships no one and bows to no one. It's in the commandments throughout Tanakh.


Then Jesus isn't a perfect image of God as you've proved above.

BTW, I think you confuse image with essence.


Likewise.

John 11:41-42. In this passage, Jesus prays before He raises Lazarus from the dead: "Father, I thank you that you have heard me. I knew that you always hear me, but I said this on account of the people standing around, that they may believe that you sent me." So, one reason Jesus prayed to the Father was for the benefit of those around Him.

Also
Jesus prayed to the Father to enjoy the fellowship with His Father.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
John 11:41-42. In this passage, Jesus prays before He raises Lazarus from the dead: "Father, I thank you that you have heard me. I knew that you always hear me, but I said this on account of the people standing around, that they may believe that you sent me." So, one reason Jesus prayed to the Father was for the benefit of those around Him.

Also
Jesus prayed to the Father to enjoy the fellowship with His Father.
Then Jesus is not God. So why do you keep saying Jesus is God?
 

Tanachreader

Well-known member
Then Jesus is not God. So why do you keep saying Jesus is God?
Why do you say He isn’t?
His prayers showed us his intimacy with His Father.

…and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
John 11:41-42. In this passage, Jesus prays before He raises Lazarus from the dead: "Father, I thank you that you have heard me. I knew that you always hear me, but I said this on account of the people standing around, that they may believe that you sent me." So, one reason Jesus prayed to the Father was for the benefit of those around Him.

Also
Jesus prayed to the Father to enjoy the fellowship with His Father.
He prayed to God in heaven because he himself isn't God. All knees will bow and tongue confess...
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
Why do you say He isn’t?
His prayers showed us his intimacy with His Father.

…and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
That would be the Father as He created all with His spoken word. His word doesn't return void.

Moses, Abraham, judges, angels, kings, altars, are called God too.
 

Tanachreader

Well-known member
That would be the Father as He created all with His spoken word. His word doesn't return void.
And the Word was with God, and the Word was God: With this brilliant statement, John 1:1 sets forth one of the most basic foundations of our faith – the Trinity. We can follow John’s logic:

· There is a Being known as the Word.· This Being is God, because He is eternal (In the beginning)· This Being is God, because He is plainly called God (the Word was God).· At the same time, this Being does not encompass all that God is. God the Father is a distinct Person from the Word (the Word was with God).
i. So, the Father and the Son (the Son is known here as the Word) are equally God, yet distinct in their Person. The Father is not the Son, and the Son is not the Father. Yet they are equally God, with God the Holy Spirit making one God in three Persons.

ii. The Word was with God: “This preposition implies intercourse and therefore separate personality. As Chrysostom says: ‘Not in God but with God, as person with person, eternally.'” (Dods)

iii. And the Word was God: “This is the true form of the sentence; not ‘God was the Word.’ This is absolutely required by the usage of the Greek language.” (Alford)

iv. “Luther says ‘the Word was God’ is against Arius: ‘the Word was with God’ against Sabellius.” (Dods)

v. And the Word was God: “Everything that can be said about God the Father can be said about God the Son. In Jesus dwells all the wisdom, glory, power, love, holiness, justice, goodness, and truth of the Father. In Him, God the Father is known.” (Boice)
Moses, Abraham, judges, angels, kings, altars, are called God too.
Nah
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
And the Word was with God, and the Word was God: With this brilliant statement, John 1:1 sets forth one of the most basic foundations of our faith – the Trinity. We can follow John’s logic:

· There is a Being known as the Word.· This Being is God, because He is eternal (In the beginning)· This Being is God, because He is plainly called God (the Word was God).· At the same time, this Being does not encompass all that God is. God the Father is a distinct Person from the Word (the Word was with God).
i. So, the Father and the Son (the Son is known here as the Word) are equally God, yet distinct in their Person. The Father is not the Son, and the Son is not the Father. Yet they are equally God, with God the Holy Spirit making one God in three Persons.

ii. The Word was with God: “This preposition implies intercourse and therefore separate personality. As Chrysostom says: ‘Not in God but with God, as person with person, eternally.'” (Dods)

iii. And the Word was God: “This is the true form of the sentence; not ‘God was the Word.’ This is absolutely required by the usage of the Greek language.” (Alford)

iv. “Luther says ‘the Word was God’ is against Arius: ‘the Word was with God’ against Sabellius.” (Dods)

v. And the Word was God: “Everything that can be said about God the Father can be said about God the Son. In Jesus dwells all the wisdom, glory, power, love, holiness, justice, goodness, and truth of the Father. In Him, God the Father is known.” (Boice)

Nah
Actually, throughout Tanakh, the term "word" is never a person. So, your argument is DOA. So much for your username. ;)

Bye bye 👋
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
The sabbath happens to be a time on earth...Man has dominion over these things.


Mark 10:42
But Jesus called them to him, and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them.

Your ignorance is amazing.
But NOT one of them is The Lord of the sabbath.
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
Therefore all Christians are compelled to acknowledge three Gods but they are forbidden to say three Gods...
19. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord;
20. So are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say; There are three Gods or three Lords.
ALL Christians are forbidden to say what does NOT exist: to wit, Three Gods or Three Lords.
 

Anthony

Active member
אֲבִיעַ֖ד

What does it mean?


You don't know what the Father of Eternity means?

Think before you post, Anthony.
That's your problem of not understanding. The Son Who is given is called the everlasting Father. It's relative to His people. Not that He was The Father before any creation. It's also common sense.

H5703

Original: עד

Transliteration: ‛ad

Phonetic: ad

BDB Definition
:

  1. perpetuity, for ever, continuing future
    1. ancient (of past time)
    2. for ever (of future time)
      1. of continuous existence
    3. for ever (of God's existence)
The first inference of His being The Father is in Exod 4:

22 “And you shall say to Pharaoh, ‘Thus said יהוה, “Yisra’ĕl is My son, My first-born,

It's covenant relationship between God and Israel.
 

Anthony

Active member
Nope, the RCC's false doctrine is running through the protestant churches. Protestant churches are the children of the RCC

The Vatican

You are conflating two different cities. Jerusalem on earth is never described as a woman Rev 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth. As a matter of fact, Jerusalem does not reign over anything.

Here you are conflating again. It says Mt Sinai answers to Jerusalem that has nothing to do with revelation. It says the Jerusalem from above which has nothing to do with earthly cities.

No it does not. It hovers around the time of the gentiles.
Luke 21:24
And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Romans 11:25
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Actually, God sent his son to save all mankind...after which he will deliver Israel...Paul makes this clear in Rom 11. Have you ever read it? You should.
12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
Romans 11:26
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Israel is not turned from ungodliness at this point, are they?

God did not call anyone to be Christians. Where did you get that from? Gentiles are grafted in there is no mention of christians being grafted in. Read Romans 11.
My goodness! Your post is full or vomit. All false interpretation when scriptures clearly teach that Mystery Babylon corresponds to the Judaism which is without Yeshua Messiah.

Christianity is not in scripture anywhere. The prophetic clock hovers around Israel.

To be a Christian is to follow Christ and has nothing to do with a religion called Christianity. Christ came to fulfill the Torah. Christianity to whom you belong contains hundreds of denominations which aren't in scriptures. RCC, protestantism, JWs, Unitarianism, Christodelphism, Mormonism, UPC, Baptistism, etc, have nothing to do with scriptures.

There is only one truth - It's the history of Israel, it's fall, rise and transition in Yeshua Messiah and true Christians are grafted among them. They aren't grafted to Christianity.
Nobody can understand the NT without God's working on Israel. There is only Jewish cult called Judaism through which is Anti-Messiah (Anti-Christ). I don't know how anyone can understand the Book of Revelation without the OT and historical Israel.

Rev 17: 18 itself gives us the interpretation of what the Mystery Babylon is. It's not RCC. It's easy for anyone who is not a Roman catholic to accuse RCC. It's only a part of world religions.

Rev 17: 18 The woman whom you saw is the great city, which reigns over the kings of the earth.”

The great City is Jerusalem where our Lord was crucified. It's not RCC. RCC wasn't even existing then. It was the Temple soldiers who arrested Yeshua Messiah on High Priests order. Then was handed over to Roman Rulers of that time. But Pilot found Him innocent and handed Him back to Judaizers for crucifixion according to the Torah - how a criminal was to be hanged on a Tree.

Much of brainwashing has happened in Christendom by depriving people from truth. They are being taught a Replacement Theology. Christianity has nothing to do with scriptures at all
 

Anthony

Active member
Another thing you said Jerusalem doesn't rein over kings of the earth. That's false because you are ruled by a Replacement Theology that the church has replaced Israel and that's how you don't know what's going on .

I know hundreds of people who have come out of Christianity and have accepted Messiah, a true Jew. The kings of the earth are believers in Jewish Messiah who have renounced Christianity and Replacement Theology.

The interpretation of who kings are in scriptures themselves:

Rev 5:
9 They sang a new song, saying, “You are worthy to take the book and to open its seals: for you were killed, and bought us for God with your blood out of every tribe, language, people, and nation,

10 and made us kings and priests to our God, and we will reign on the earth.”

The New Song deals with a New Covenant.

The Messiah's Priesthood is after the order of Mekitsedek. The definition of Mekitsedek is King of Righteousness.

He being The High Priest, we are made kings and priests of the kingdom of God by Him.

It's quite obvious these kings have committed adultery with Judaism (The Whore - mystery Babylon). How? By keeping the carnal Torah based on the observation of a Jewish calendar.

I know many from Hebrew movement who keep literally all feasts of Israel in foreign soils. The feasts (Muadym) were to be kept only in specified place by YHWH. That's how we find in Acts 2 that many people from different countries gathered in Jerusalem for the feast of Pentecost.

Israel in transition still kept the feasts in Jerusalem in the Book of Acts. But feasts can't be kept in foreign soils. But these people from Hebrew movement still observe the 7 feasts in foreign soil which accounts to fornication with the Whore - Mystery Babylon. I was also part of that and have come out at this call:

Rev 18: 4 I heard another voice from heaven, saying, “Come out of her, my people, that you have no participation in her sins, and that you don’t receive of her plagues,

Formation of the nation of Israel in Middle East is as per prophecy which is a political country having great influence over the world. Majority of companies are owned by Jewish elites. The Banking system is managed by them as Federal Reserve System. Out of this will be a world religion of Judaism will be established from which Anti-Messiah will manifest. The Covid thing is working in this direction.

Daniel's interpretation of the great image that Nebuchadsnezar saw in his dream symbolize political powers that affected historical Israel and how in the end it will affect spiritual Israel. Last Last kingdom is represented by Iron and clay which is State and Religion mixed. The clay is related to the Potter Who God is which is related to both true and false believers. This kingdom of Anti-Messiah will be thrown down in the end by the 2nd coming of our Great God and Savior Yeshua Messiah. Time is short.

Christendom in general believe that it will be dealt separately and will be raptured before Jacob's trouble. But this belief is false as it's dispensationalism that's nothing to do with scriptures.

Understanding Torah in spirit is very important to understand prophetic scriptures. Yeshua Messiah came to fulfill and not to do away with Torah. It's important to understand prophetic scriptures.


Heb 8:
8 For finding fault with them, he said, “Behold, the days come”, says the Lord, “that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;

9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers, in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; for they didn’t continue in my covenant, and I disregarded them,” says the Lord.

10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel. After those days,” says the Lord; “I will put my laws into their mind, I will also write them on their heart. I will be their God, and they will be my people.

God is not making any new covenant with Christendom but with the house of Judah and Israel. We need to be grafted among them:


Rom 11:
17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the root and of the richness of the olive tree,

18 don’t boast over the branches. But if you boast, it is not you who support the root, but the root supports you.

If you still don't understand I can't help it. The prophetic clock hovers around Israel till the end of this age. That's why I have shunned the religion of Christianity.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
That's your problem of not understanding.
Rotfl... the question was asked of you, not because I didn't know it.

The Son Who is given is called the everlasting Father. It's relative to His people. Not that He was The Father before any creation. It's also common sense.
No, the term is used with respect to eternity not any other relationship after creation. It's common sense.

H5703

Original: עד

Transliteration: ‛ad

Phonetic: ad

BDB Definition
:

  1. perpetuity, for ever, continuing future
    1. ancient (of past time)
    2. for ever (of future time)
      1. of continuous existence
    3. for ever (of God's existence)
Ok.

The first inference of His being The Father is in Exod 4:

22 “And you shall say to Pharaoh, ‘Thus said יהוה, “Yisra’ĕl is My son, My first-born,
And Jesus is called son as well. So, Jesus isn't his own son.

It's covenant relationship between God and Israel.
Your own definitions above contradict you. Again, think before you post, Anthony.
 
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Jewjitzu

Well-known member
FYI, you're the one who does not know Him ( Jesus Christ ) as the Messiah you MUST Go through in order to get to God the Father in Heaven! -------------------------

John 14:6​

New International Version​

6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
This refers to Torah, which is the way, truth, and life.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
Why do you say He isn’t?
His prayers showed us his intimacy with His Father.
His prayers show us his father is God. Therefore he is not God.
…and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
As long as it says "with" God he cannot be God unless he is his own father. If the Word is Jesus and God is his father. It is saying Jesus was with his Father and Jesus was his father.
Can you put persons to the pronouns for this to make sense?

…and the Word(Jesus) was with God (His Father), and the Word (Jesus ) was God (his Father). The same(Jesus) was in the beginning with God(his Father). All things were made by him(Jesus); and without him(Jesus) was not any thing made that was made.

There is no way to formulate that passage without implicating that Jesus was his own Father.
Would you care to break it down to show that Jesus is not his own Father?
 

101G

Well-known member
His prayers show us his father is God. Therefore he is not God.
ERROR, consider this, 1 John 1:5 "This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all."
do you understand? ...... "GOD IS LIGHT"... Correct.... now this, John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
John 1:2 "The same was in the beginning with God."
John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."
John 1:4 "In him was life; and the life was the light of men."
John 1:5 "And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not."John 1:6 "There was a man sent from God, whose name was John."
John 1:7 "The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe."
John 1:8 "He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light."
John 1:9 "That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world."

so, who is the "TRUE LIGHT? ... answer "GOD" and who did John witness to? answer, JESUS the Christ, the Word here in John 1. so the Lord Jesus is the "TRUE GOD."

now this, John 17:3 "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."

NOW, if the Lord Jesus is not the ONE .... "TRUE GOD", then one have two TRUE GODS, wich is anti bible. .

PICJAG, 101G.
 
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