Did Jesus teach he was GOD himself?

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
The questions you were asking did not express any attempt to understand what was being said. The exact same types of questions can be produced ad infinitum as to question anything. I said "Some attributes of God were attributed to men being made in his image. Other's are not." This is a truism for every interpretation of man being made in God's image.
I disagree. The issue I believe is the definition used for tzelem, image. It appears you understand it as essence which i agree wouldn't apply. I believe it means representative, a semblance, which man is on earth.

What isn't a truism is that God consists of 3 persons. There wouldn't be a reason why God couldn't create man to mimic that.

What are the attributes of God along with which attributes are attributed to men and which are not is hotly debated, but that there is disagreement on such doesn't touch the truism. I also said "Being three persons is not one of those attributes that are given to men."
With no reason why. The trinity isn't a truism.

That's my application of this truism to your question. Without any further clarification from you, such fully answers your question.
But, you haven't clarified why the trinity is a truism.

If you think my application is unreasonable, then you have to provide your reasoning. This is true no matter how I would answer your question. That's why those questions in this context express an attempt to over analyze the minutia of situation before understanding what I'm saying.
You're still not explaining why man can't be 3, nor why the trinity is real.

Nope. One who is true God emptied himself as to become man.
But true God doesn't stop being God. He doesn't change.

In that situation, what would his relationship as man be to the other members of the Godhead? Answer, as a creature.
So, you contradict that 3 persons in the godhead are God. Your assertion that the trinity consists of 3 persons as God is not a truism nor attribute. Do you see that?

Therefore, worship is expected as man; while as God, it's expected God worships no one and bows to no one.
But you argue Jesus is both. So, the fact he worshipped the Father shows he isn't the God. You can't get around this.

Sir, Jesus, who is God, as God is the perfect image of God.
But, Jesus wasn't truly God on earth, nor does God's perfect image entail humanity.

God Bless
Likewise
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
One Person is The Father, ONE is The Son, One is The Holy Spirit.
Hope that clears things up.
And each person by himself is God, therefore three Gods.
Athanasian Creed
19. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord;
 

Nathan P

Well-known member
One Person is The Father, ONE is The Son, One is The Holy Spirit.
Hope that clears things up.
If you mean there are 3 person's and one is the Father and one is the Son and one is the HS yes?
One Person is The Father, ONE is The Son, One is The Holy Spirit.
Hope that clears things up.
When you said every person refers to the Father, Son and HS it sounded like you meant everyone of the person's referred to the Father, Son and the HS.
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
If you mean there are 3 person's and one is the Father and one is the Son and one is the HS yes?

When you said every person refers to the Father, Son and HS it sounded like you meant everyone of the person's referred to the Father, Son and the HS.
Which is why I decided to clear things up.
 

DoctrinesofGraceBapt

Well-known member
The questions you were asking did not express any attempt to understand what was being said. The exact same types of questions can be produced ad infinitum as to question anything. I said "Some attributes of God were attributed to men being made in his image. Other's are not." This is a truism for every interpretation of man being made in God's image.
I disagree. The issue I believe is the definition used for tzelem, image. It appears you understand it as essence which i agree wouldn't apply. I believe it means representative, a semblance, which man is on earth.

What isn't a truism is that God consists of 3 persons. There wouldn't be a reason why God couldn't create man to mimic that.

So, humans are omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent? After all, if that truism is false, all attributes of God were attributed to men being made in his image. Does that seem right? Maybe, you are over thinking things. I never implied image necessarily relates to essence.

I never said it is a truism is that God consists of 3 persons. You need to read more carefully.


DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
What are the attributes of God along with which attributes are attributed to men and which are not is hotly debated, but that there is disagreement on such doesn't touch the truism. I also said "Being three persons is not one of those attributes that are given to men."
With no reason why. The trinity isn't a truism.
DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
That's my application of this truism to your question. Without any further clarification from you, such fully answers your question.
But, you haven't clarified why the trinity is a truism.

You aren't reading carefully enough. I never said or implied that the Trinity was a truism.

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
If you think my application is unreasonable, then you have to provide your reasoning. This is true no matter how I would answer your questions. That's why those questions in this context express an attempt to over analyze the minutia of situation before understanding what I'm saying.
You're still not explaining why man can't be 3, nor why the trinity is real.

Sorry dude, you just need to reread what I said. Some attributes of God were attributed to men being made in his image. Other's are not. And, being three persons is not one of those attributes that are given to men.

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
Nope. One who is true God emptied himself as to become man.
But true God doesn't stop being God. He doesn't change.

Did I say Jesus stopped being God too when he became man?

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
In that situation, what would his relationship as man be to the other members of the Godhead? Answer, as a creature.
So, you contradict that 3 persons in the godhead are God. Your assertion that the trinity consists of 3 persons as God is not a truism nor attribute. Do you see that?

Nope. You are reading so much into my statements that I'm not saying.

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
Therefore, worship is expected as man; while as God, it's expected God worships no one and bows to no one.
But you argue Jesus is both. So, the fact he worshipped the Father shows he isn't the God. You can't get around this.

The fact Jesus worshipped the Father as man shows his humanity isn't God.

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
Sir, Jesus, who is God, as God is the perfect image of God.
But, Jesus wasn't truly God on earth, nor does God's perfect image entail humanity.

That Jesus has two natures doesn't change the fact that as God Jesus is the perfect image of God.

God Bless
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
Did I say Jesus stopped being God too when he became man?
God is not a man, is he? Remember each person is God by himself. So one of your Gods became a man which is contrary to scripture. But he remained God and died as a man. How is that?. You have a God that died because you believe a man cannot die for your sins. But you believe that God cannot die since God is immortal. So who died for your sins a man or God?
 

DoctrinesofGraceBapt

Well-known member
No, that the Athanasian creed says "Thus the Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God. Yet there are not three gods; there is but one God." proves that you are misinterpreting the Athanasian creed when you say it's teaching three Gods.
No, it shows that the writers are aware they are saying three Gods so they violate logic by saying ... Yet there are not three Gods. I am nor misinterpreting anything... The Athanasian creed must abide by the scripture not the other way around. They say three Gods then tell me ,yet there are not three. It is clear those are their words. Each by himself is God and Lord.

What's more reasonable? That Millions upon millions of people violated logic, including many of the smartest, logical, rational people in history, as you refuse to explain how they violated logic, or that you misunderstood something? Apply Occam's Razor to that.

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
That Creed states "But the divinity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one," proves you are misinterpreting it.
How am I misinterpreting ...Each person by himself is God? Please explain what each person by himself is God means?

Each person by himself is the SAME God because there is only one divinity, one God.

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
I'm not overriding anything. I'm proving that you are misinterpreting line 19 of the Athanasian creed.
No, I am not. Are you saying that, 19. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord;...means that one must acknowledge every person by himself as not God?

See, you are willfully blind to your own shortcomings.

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
Yes we will judge Angels, does that mean every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Newbirth is Lord, to the glory of God the Father? Nope,
I never made that claim, did I? So it is a strawman.

Not a straw man, reductio ad absurdum. You made a silly comment; I took it to it's logical conclusion.

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
nice job ignoring these passages.
Was the Sabbath made for man or was man made for the Sabbath? If the sabbath was made for me then why should i not have dominion over it?

That nap time was made for my son and my son was not made for nap time imply my four year old has dominion over his nap time?

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
BTW in Isaiah 45:23, God says "By myself I have sworn; from my mouth has gone out in righteousness a word that shall not return: ‘To me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear allegiance.'", and Paul attributes that to Jesus. Paul, referencing a multi-chapter diatribe on the Greatness and Uniqueness of YHWH, attributes such to Jesus. That's argumbly the one of the strongest Biblical evidences for Jesus being God that there can be, and you attribute such to men. That's Blasphemy, pure and simply. Good luck with such beliefs.
In the same chapter please explain 11 Thus saith the Lord, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.
Who is the Maker of the Holy One of Israel?

What aboutism? That's all you've got. So sad; so sad. You're entire position is clearly false, but you have your ways to save face. How about you first deal with Isaiah 45:23 and Paul's application of that to Jesus in Philippines 2? I'll show you how it's done:

Isaiah 45:11 says "Thus says YHWH, the Holy One of Israel, and the one who formed him: “Ask me of things to come; will you command me concerning my children and the work of my hands?" So YHWH is "the Holy One of Israel" and the one who formed "Israel". How is this relevant? Oh yeah, it's not. On the other hand in Isaiah 45:23, God says "By myself I have sworn; from my mouth has gone out in righteousness a word that shall not return: ‘To me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear allegiance.'", and Paul attributes that to Jesus. Paul, referencing a multi-chapter diatribe on the Greatness and Uniqueness of YHWH, attributes such to Jesus. That's argumbly the one of the strongest Biblical evidences for Jesus being God that there can be, and you ignore it.

See, refute the application of the passage the other side presented, then present your own positive argument.


God Bless
 
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DoctrinesofGraceBapt

Well-known member
Did I say Jesus stopped being God too when he became man?
God is not a man, is he?

Did I say God is man? Nope. Moving on.

Remember each person is God by himself. So one of your Gods became a man which is contrary to scripture. But he remained God and died as a man. How is that?. You have a God that died because you believe a man cannot die for your sins. But you believe that God cannot die since God is immortal. So who died for your sins a man or God?

Bearing false witness is a sin.

God Bless
 
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