Did Jesus teach he was GOD himself?

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
So, humans are omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent?
I didn't say that, and you're not paying attention to what I've said.

BTW, Jesus wasn't any of these things either. He admitted he didn't know all things, only did what the Father dictated, confined to earth, etc.

After all, if that truism is false, all attributes of God were attributed to men being made in his image.
You didn't pay attention to what I said was my understanding of the image, which isn't the essence of God.

You still didn't answer why humans can't be 3 persons?

Does that seem right? Maybe, you are over thinking things. I never implied image necessarily relates to essence.
Then, what's the problem?

I never said it is a truism is that God consists of 3 persons. You need to read more carefully.
Great. Then why argue for the trinity in this OP?

You aren't reading carefully enough. I never said or implied that the Trinity was a truism.
See above.

Sorry dude, you just need to reread what I said. Some attributes of God were attributed to men being made in his image. Other's are not. And, being three persons is not one of those attributes that are given to men.
But, you contradict yourself as you've said above the trinity isn't a truism, and therefore not an attribute.

Did I say Jesus stopped being God too when he became man?
You've implied it when you say Jesus as a man relates to the godhead as a creature.

Nope. You are reading so much into my statements that I'm not saying.
Ok. So please make up your mind if the trinity is a truism or not.

The fact Jesus worshipped the Father as man shows his humanity isn't God.
It shows both of his natures bowed to God, as both natures are in a union, correct?

That Jesus has two natures doesn't change the fact that as God Jesus is the perfect image of God.
Not when he bows to God with both natures.

God Bless
Likewise
 
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Newbirth

Well-known member
Each person by himself is the SAME God because there is only one divinity, one God.
19. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord;
It does not say the SAME God does it? You are not making any sense. You seem to be overriding the Athanasian Creed. Clearly the Creed says each person by himself( not together) is God there are three persons therefore three Gods. The next line forbids you from saying three Gods.
 

Tanachreader

Well-known member
I am going with what you are saying. So let us break it down.
The word is Jesus
God is the father of Jesus
Therefore Jesus the Word was God his father.
John say’s the WORD was With and WAS GOD.

John presents the doctrine of the deity of Christ and affirms His co-eternal nature with God as Creator of the universe. He the WORD was always.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
Was the Sabbath made for man or was man made for the Sabbath? If the sabbath was made for me then why should i not have dominion over it?
BTW, you are correct here.

This is derived from the Talmud in Yoma 85b, and elsewhere:

The Sabbath was handed over to you, and you were not handed over to the Sabbath.

This allows for leniency for matters of life or death on the Sabbath.
 

Anthony

Well-known member
The old is over, the new is brought in.
And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body. 27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; 28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Zech
10 And I took my staff, even Beauty, and cut it asunder, that I might break my covenant which I had made with all the people. 11 And it was broken in that day: and so the poor of the flock that waited upon me knew that it was the word of the LORD. 12 And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver. 13 And the LORD said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the LORD. I cut asunder mine other staff, even Bands, that I might break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel.

Ezekiel was conditional and failed. GONE!
Son of man, describe the temple to the people of Israel, that they may be ashamed of their sins. Let them consider its perfection, and if they are ashamed of all they have done, make known to them the design of the temple—its arrangement, its exits and entrances—its whole design and all its regulations and laws.” Ezekiel 43: 10-11
Not
Too summarize all the Jewish people who rejected Yeshua since are lost.
Only a Remnant is saved.
Not only that the whole of historical Israel was dispersed among heathens in all countries. That's one of the reasons we have the NT in Greek. The so called Jews returned to their land since 1948 to prepare for Anti-Messiah since they rejected the true Messiah Yeshua. But according to scriptures they may be ethnic but not true Jews. A true Jew is the one circumcised in his heart and not mere flesh.

But other than these rest of the tribes merged with heathens and lost their ethnic identity. Then how would the prophecy of Abraham becoming father of many nations fulfill?

In reality, true Christians are Abraham's descendants - scriptures gives that assurance. Then how does the prophetic clock hovers only around Israel. The new covenant is made with the same people of the Old Covenant - Heb 8:8-12.

Every book/epistle is addressed to this same people (Torah, Prophets, Psalms, The NT).

Many of us were deluded by a Replacement Theology. This Replacement Theology has brought about divisions in Theology, Christology, Soteriology, Eschatology, etc. This is definitely not the plan of God for His own people. Yeshua said "you will know the truth and the truth will set you free". This is a far cry from what's been happening in Christendom. We need to come out of all this mess and be part of the spiritual Israel be which transitioned from flesh (fleshly ordinances of Torah) to Spirit (where we are priests and kings after the order of Mekitsedek with Messiah as The High Priest).

Hos 1: 9 then He said, “Call his name Lo-Ammi, for you are not My people, and I am not for you.

10 “Yet the number of the children of Yisra’ĕl shall be as the sand of the sea, which is not measured nor counted. And it shall be in the place where it was said to them, ‘You are not My people,’ they shall be called, ‘You are the sons of the living Ěl.

The same people who were once rejected for harlotry as not God's people are being called again God's people and His sons.

Let's see this in NT:

Heb 8:10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel. After those days,” says the Lord; “I will put my laws into their mind, I will also write them on their heart. I will be their God, and they will be my people.

Below I prefer 'Nations' instead of 'Gentiles'. The Greek Word 'Ethnos' corresponds to Hebrew 'Goyim'.

Abraham is the father of many Nations (not Gentiles).

This word 'Gentiles' is the basic foundation of Replacement Theology.

Rom 9: 24 even whom He called, not only us of the Yehuḏim, but also of the nations?

25 As He says in Hoshĕa too, “I shall call them My people, who were not My people, and her beloved, who was not beloved.”

26 “And it shall be in the place where it was said to them, ‘You are not My people,’ there they shall be called sons of the living Elohim.” - TS2009

Don't get me wrong. There is nothing like a perfect translation which includes TS2009. I refer to all translations for clarity and comparisons between Hebrew and Greek words.

Whether Nations or Gentiles it could both refer to believers or heathens depending on the context.

Mat 4:15 The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim, by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles; -kjv

Galilee of gentiles ? Galilee was part of historical Israel just as Samaria was.

The prophetic promise to Abraham that his seed will be multiplied is definite so he would be the father of many nations. It's all because of dispersed Israel.

So when we read the NT we need to be sure that it's addressed to the Jews and dispersed Israel (Greeks, Gentiles, Foreigners, Barbarians, Uncircumcised, Nations, etc). It's not a completely new group but once God rejected as not His people are being called as His people in Yeshua Messiah. He is the Kinsman Redeemer.

Rom 4:
17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were. note

18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations; according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.

We have to come out of confusion of doctrines and be joined to spiritual Israel.
 

Anthony

Well-known member
The old is over, the new is brought in.
And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body. 27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; 28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Zech
10 And I took my staff, even Beauty, and cut it asunder, that I might break my covenant which I had made with all the people. 11 And it was broken in that day: and so the poor of the flock that waited upon me knew that it was the word of the LORD. 12 And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver. 13 And the LORD said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the LORD. I cut asunder mine other staff, even Bands, that I might break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel.

Ezekiel was conditional and failed. GONE!
Son of man, describe the temple to the people of Israel, that they may be ashamed of their sins. Let them consider its perfection, and if they are ashamed of all they have done, make known to them the design of the temple—its arrangement, its exits and entrances—its whole design and all its regulations and laws.” Ezekiel 43: 10-11
Not
Too summarize all the Jewish people who rejected Yeshua since are lost.
Only a Remnant is saved.
Not only that the whole of historical Israel was dispersed among heathens in all countries. That's one of the reasons we have the NT in Greek. The so called Jews returned to their land since 1948 to prepare for Anti-Messiah since they rejected the true Messiah Yeshua. But according to scriptures they may be ethnic but not true Jews. A true Jew is the one circumcised in his heart and not mere flesh.

But other than these rest of the tribes merged with heathens and lost their ethnic identity. Then how would the prophecy of Abraham becoming father of many nations fulfill?

In reality, true Christians are Abraham's descendants - scriptures gives that assurance. Then how does the prophetic clock hovers only around Israel. The new covenant is made with the same people of the Old Covenant - Heb 8:8-12.

Every book/epistle is addressed to this same people (Torah, Prophets, Psalms, The NT).

Many of us were deluded by a Replacement Theology. This Replacement Theology has brought about divisions in Theology, Christology, Soteriology, Eschatology, etc. This is definitely not the plan of God for His own people. Yeshua said "you will know the truth and the truth will set you free". This is a far cry from what's been happening in Christendom. We need to come out of all this mess and be part of the spiritual Israel be which transitioned from flesh (fleshly ordinances of Torah) to Spirit (where we are priests and kings after the order of Mekitsedek with Messiah as The High Priest).

Hos 1: 9 then He said, “Call his name Lo-Ammi, for you are not My people, and I am not for you.

10 “Yet the number of the children of Yisra’ĕl shall be as the sand of the sea, which is not measured nor counted. And it shall be in the place where it was said to them, ‘You are not My people,’ they shall be called, ‘You are the sons of the living Ěl.

The same people who were once rejected for harlotry as not God's people are being called again God's people and His sons.

Let's see this in NT:

Heb 8:10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel. After those days,” says the Lord; “I will put my laws into their mind, I will also write them on their heart. I will be their God, and they will be my people.

Below I prefer 'Nations' instead of 'Gentiles'. The Greek Word 'Ethnos' corresponds to Hebrew 'Goyim'.

Abraham is the father of many Nations (not Gentiles).

This word 'Gentiles' is the basic foundation of Replacement Theology.

Rom 9: 24 even whom He called, not only us of the Yehuḏim, but also of the nations?

25 As He says in Hoshĕa too, “I shall call them My people, who were not My people, and her beloved, who was not beloved.”

26 “And it shall be in the place where it was said to them, ‘You are not My people,’ there they shall be called sons of the living Elohim.” - TS2009

Don't get me wrong. There is nothing like a perfect translation which includes TS2009. I refer to all translations for clarity and comparisons between Hebrew and Greek words.

Whether Nations or Gentiles it could both refer to believers or heathens depending on the context.

Mat 4:15 The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim, by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles; -kjv

Galilee of gentiles ? Galilee was part of historical Israel just as Samaria was.

The prophetic promise to Abraham that his seed will be multiplied is definite so he would be the father of many nations. It's all because of dispersed Israel.

So when we read the NT we need to be sure that it's addressed to the Jews and dispersed Israel (Greeks, Gentiles, Foreigners, Barbarians, Uncircumcised, Nations, etc). It's not a completely new group but once God rejected as not His people are being called as His people in Yeshua Messiah. He is the Kinsman Redeemer.

Rom 4:
17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were. note

18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations; according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.

We have to come out of confusion of doctrines and be joined to spiritual
Sorry mu post is not full of you.

No, it does not.

I already said that

No, it does not. This is the time of the gentiles...
Luke 21:24
And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

To be a christian is a self-appointment. God did not call anyone to be a christian

He did fulfil it.

I belong to Christ so your claim is baseless.

Another baseless claim. The scripture speaks about them. The RCC is the Mother of harlots and Those that came out from her are her daughters...

How does that make any sense? Are you saying nothing else but the history of Israel is true? I already said God did not call anyone to be a christian, therefore christians are not grafted anywhere

They are not grafted to Israel either.

What Israel? To this day the leaders of Israel reject Jesus.

The Jewish leadership was always anti Christ, they killed him, didn't they?

God gives them understanding.

No it does not. Those are two different cities.

It is the RCC The RCC is the leader of world religions...

In terms of Religious leadership, Jerusalem is not reigning over anyone . But the Vatican does

That is another city...
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.


And Jerusalem never reigned over any kings of the earth...18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.


Then it is clear you are conflating two different cities... One where our Lord was crucified and one who reigns over the kings of the earth...

And you are adding to the confusion

And you are teaching two different cities as one city.
It's not possible to belong to Christ and speak against His Deity. That's all I want to say
 

rod.ney

Well-known member
The law is the way to life. Even Jesus confirms this.
Read what Jesus said in John 4:13-14+25+26 ---------------

John 4:13-26​

New International Version​

13 Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, 14 but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”

25 The woman said, “I know that Messiah” (called Christ) “is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us.”
26 Then Jesus declared, “I, the one speaking to you—I am he.”
 

Anthony

Well-known member
Jesus is a man and you say Jesus is God...moving on

Yes, it is...Where did Jesus say he is God? You falsely teach that Jesus is God. This thread is about did Jesus teach he was God himself. No one has been able to show Jesus saying he is God.
That's the nonsense we always hear from Unitarians. Did Yeshua teach He is God. What God you are talking about you don't know. The invisible and His image - same God with form and face. The more you deny the more you adhere to depravity - darkness where Satan is the king.
 

Anthony

Well-known member
Rotfl... as John 14:6 is about SALVATION ( not the Law ) being ONLY THROUGH Jesus Christ! Case closed!
1 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;

2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.

3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world: note

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth. his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

Messiah/Christ is the Living Torah when He said I Am The Way, The Truth and The Way.
 

DoctrinesofGraceBapt

Well-known member
So, humans are omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent?
I didn't say that, and you're not paying attention to what I've said.
BTW, Jesus wasn't any of these things either. He admitted he didn't know all things, only did what the Father dictated, confined to earth, etc.
DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
After all, if that truism is false, all attributes of God were attributed to men being made in his image.
You didn't pay attention to what I said was my understanding of the image, which isn't the essence of God.
You still didn't answer why humans can't be 3 persons?
DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
Does that seem right? Maybe, you are over thinking things. I never implied image necessarily relates to essence.
Then, what's the problem?

Perhaps, you should comment on the extended thought as opposed to breaking it up.

Jesus became man. Therefore, that he didn't know all things, only did what the Father dictated, confined to earth, etc. are expected.
There is no problem, you just saw a problem by assuming I'm talking about essence when I was talking about image.


DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
I never said it is a truism is that God consists of 3 persons. You need to read more carefully.
Great. Then why argue for the trinity in this OP?

You do realize there is a difference between claiming God consists of three persons as a truism and arguing for the Trinity.

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
Sorry dude, you just need to reread what I said. Some attributes of God were attributed to men being made in his image. Other's are not. And, being three persons is not one of those attributes that are given to men.
But, you contradict yourself as you've said above the trinity isn't a truism, and therefore not an attribute.

God being three persons is my position, not a truism. You asked how this works from my perspective. Therefore, any response necessary takes my perspective as a given for the sake of argumentation.

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
Did I say Jesus stopped being God too when he became man?
You've implied it when you say Jesus as a man relates to the godhead as a creature.

Trinitarians have alway talked about the two natures of Christ. As man, Jesus as a man relates to the godhead as a creature. As God, Jesus relates to the godhead as God. No problem here.

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
Nope. You are reading so much into my statements that I'm not saying.
Ok. So please make up your mind if the trinity is a truism or not.

I've already explained this. See above.

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
The fact Jesus worshipped the Father as man shows his humanity isn't God.
It shows both of his natures bowed to God, as both natures are in a union, correct?

No, this shows Jesus with respect to his human nature bowed to God. This does not show that as God Jesus was bowing to God.

God Bless
 

Anthony

Well-known member
Jesus is a man and you say Jesus is God...moving on

Yes, it is...Where did Jesus say he is God? You falsely teach that Jesus is God. This thread is about did Jesus teach he was God himself. No one has been able to show Jesus saying he is God.
You falsely teach He is not God when mankind is created in His image.

He told clearly Philip that he is looking for someone apart from Himself. Those who see Yeshua Messiah have seen God. Full stop.

Phil 2'5-7 says He is the form of God and equal WITH God. But He didn't hold to this reputation of being Equal WITH God because He came in Servant's form - Jacob/Israel is God's servant. It shows He came to represent and Mediate for Israel. Hence He didn't openly say He is God.

But carnal man demands 'where did He say He is God?

Being carnal without any spiritual discernment leads to doom. Scriptures are very clear if you have a nerve to search. But consitently denial shows the person is not saved.

Isaiah 41:8 But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.

Isa 44:1 Yet now hear, O Jacob my servant; and Israel, whom I have chosen:

more

Isa 44:21 Remember these, O Jacob and Israel; for thou art my servant: I have formed thee; thou art my servant: O Israel, thou shalt not be forgotten of me.

Isaiah 42: 1 Behold, my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen, in whom my soul delights: I have put my Spirit on him. He will bring justice to the nations.

6 “I, the LORD, have called you in righteousness. I will hold your hand. I will keep you, and make you a covenant for the people, as a light for the nations,

7 to open the blind eyes, to bring the prisoners out of the dungeon, and those who sit in darkness out of the prison.

Now don't try even to say My Servant, Messiah is not God. The prophetic scriptures may go over your head . Remember Phil 2:5-7 - He didn't hold on to the reputation of His equality With God but opted to be The Servant Jacob. This may be offensive to the unbelieving Jews and Unitarians. God doesn't care what you think of Him.
 
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johnny guitar

Well-known member
Jesus is a man and you say Jesus is God...moving on

Yes, it is...Where did Jesus say he is God? You falsely teach that Jesus is God. This thread is about did Jesus teach he was God himself. No one has been able to show Jesus saying he is God.
Jesus is God AND Man.
 

Anthony

Well-known member
The truth is Yesh
Jesus is God AND Man.
The truth is Jesus is God in the form of Man in whose imag you were created. We can't divide Him between God and Man. The false doctrine has been around since a long time. His Body is not from dust like Adam's corruptible body of dust. His body was prepared from heaven. How could He say He is The Bread from heaven if He got Body from Mary. I'm here to uproot all traditional false doctrines we inherited by means of tradition. He would not have been qualified to offer his Body as sin offering had He got His body from Mary (body of dust).

T
 

DoctrinesofGraceBapt

Well-known member
Did I say God is man? Nope. Moving on.
Jesus is a man and you say Jesus is God...moving on

Do you really think it's rational to argue against a position while refusing to interact with that position? We believe Jesus has two natures, God and man. Therefore, I still never said God is man, and your response isn't interacting with our position at all.

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
Bearing false witness is a sin
Yes, it is...Where did Jesus say he is God? You falsely teach that Jesus is God. This thread is about did Jesus teach he was God himself. No one has been able to show Jesus saying he is God.

So, you're just going to ignore the fact that you are bearing false witness against us?

"Where did Jesus say he is God?" That's a silly question. Jesus taught he was God and the apostles taught he was God without ever using the words "he is God". The meaningful question is where does Scripture teach he is God. But, when have you ever asked a meaningful question when you can play games with empty rhetoric?

"This thread is about did Jesus teach he was God himself." Yes, so why are you arbitrary changing teach to say? Oh yeah, rhetoric. BTW, we've been through this. We present evidence that Jesus taught he was God, and when you are unable to deal with such, you resort to your "three Gods" narrative and switching teach to saying exact words.

Each person by himself is the SAME God because there is only one divinity, one God.
19. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord;
It does not say the SAME God does it? You are not making any sense. You seem to be overriding the Athanasian Creed. Clearly the Creed says each person by himself( not together) is God there are three persons therefore three Gods. The next line forbids you from saying three Gods.

There you go purposefully misinterpreting the creed. The creed says they are each God, and the creed says there is only one God. Therefore, they are the same God. It also directly stats not three Gods. Therefore, every time you accuse of believing three Gods, you are bearing false witness. It's not my fault that you refuse to be corrected no matter what evidence is presented.

God Bless
 
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