Did Jesus teach he was GOD himself?

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
I agree the new Covenant is strictly with Israel which some believing in a Replacement Theology (church replacing Israel) make me a cult.

However, I have to strongly disagree with your rejecting Yeshua being The True Messiah of both the two houses of Israel Who brought about the New Covenant.

I don't believe in a Trinity which has nothing to with either OT or a NT. Neither I believe in what overall Christendom teaches. Christendom also misunderstands 'Gentiles' to mean other than dispersed Israelites. The Hebrew word for Nations is the same Greek word as 'Ethnos' which some translators have translated as 'Gentiles' which have dual meanings. The only difference is that 'Gentiles' have no singular form 'Gentile'.

Israel was Nation. However, Abraham is the father of many nations. Why? It's because of the dispersion of Israel into many countries. It has nothing to do with a Replacement Theology that's popularly taught. God has limited His salvation plan to only Israel which transitioned from the Old Covenant to the New Covenant through Yeshua HaMashyach.
Israel is a nation, not nations. You can join, Isaiah 56:1-8.

Since you don't believe Yeshua is God, what benefit is there in believing in him given that God saved him as well?

The new covenant is the same law written on the hearts and minds, Jeremiah 31:31-34.
 

Anthony

Well-known member
Israel is a nation, not nations. You can join, Isaiah 56:1-8.

Since you don't believe Yeshua is God, what benefit is there in believing in him given that God saved him as well?

The new covenant is the same law written on the hearts and minds, Jeremiah 31:31-34.
Israel was an historic nation but has been in dispersion since a long long time. Hence Abraham became the father of many nations.

The same Law which was written on the tablets of hardened hearts is now written in hearts which are circumcised. Yeshua is the Living Torah as the testimony. The believing Israelites are already grafted among the natural Jewish olive branches under the new Covenant. There has been falling and rising of many in Israel under Yeshua Messiah.

Yes foreigners could join to Israel under the old covenant but only for earthly blessings but salvation is limited only to the 12 tribes of Israel.

The foreigners or strangers were joined as an example to show that Israelites were too strangers and foreigners in Egypt and pilgrims in wilderness journey. BTW, foreigners in Isaiah 56 are outcasts of Israel - Isaiah 56:8

The festival of Sukkot was also to show by living in booths Israelites were pilgrims waiting for salvation.

Moshe didn't lead Israelites to Canaan the land of promise. It under the leadership of Yeshua, s/o Nun that Israel went into the promises land.

Spirituality speaking it's Yeshua HaMashyach (with the same name as s/o Nun in OT) who leads us to heavenly Jerusalem in our salvation which was prefigured by historical Israel going to the land of Canaan.
 

101G

Well-known member
GINOLJC, to all,
Matthew 16:18 "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

Isaiah 28:16 "Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste." Isaiah 28:17 "Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place." Isaiah 28:18 "And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it." Isaiah 28:19 "From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report."

PICJAG, 101G.
 

Tanachreader

Well-known member
Do you understand this to mean Jesus is the Father? If so why do you teach they are not each other? It seems like you are contradicting yourself.
Heb 1:3
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
Love eating lamb 🐑.

But Samuel replied: “Does the LORD delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices as much as in obeying the LORD? To obey is better than sacrifice, and to heed is better than the fat of rams (lambs).

Obedience is better than the lamb, Jesus.
Indeed, obedience to The Lamb who takes away the sin of the world is best.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
Israel was an historic nation but has been in dispersion since a long long time. Hence Abraham became the father of many nations.
Dispersed doesn't mean many nations. That's a mistake. The nations can join Israel. Isaiah 56:1-8.

The same Law which was written on the tablets of hardened hearts is now written in hearts which are circumcised.
And minds. Circumcision is both physically and spiritually.

Yeshua is the Living Torah as the testimony.
Isaiah 8:20
To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, they have no light of dawn.

The believing Israelites are already grafted among the natural Jewish olive branches under the new Covenant.
You don't think you're an Israelite, do you? Based on what? Replacement theology?

There has been falling and rising of many in Israel under Yeshua Messiah.
Yeshua didn't prove anything.

Yes foreigners could join to Israel under the old covenant but only for earthly blessings but salvation is limited only to the 12 tribes of Israel.
No, the new is the old written on the hearts and minds. Same law for the native and stranger.

The foreigners or strangers were joined as an example to show that Israelites were too strangers and foreigners in Egypt and pilgrims in wilderness journey. BTW, foreigners in Isaiah 56 are outcasts of Israel - Isaiah 56:8
No, but werent outcast, they are foreigners considered as a part of God's people, v8, now.

The festival of Sukkot was also to show by living in booths Israelites were pilgrims waiting for salvation.
No, the hag of Sukkot points to the wilderness journey on the way to Israel, pointing to the yetziah mitzrayim.

Moshe didn't lead Israelites to Canaan the land of promise. It under the leadership of Yeshua, s/o Nun that Israel went into the promises land.
True.

Spirituality speaking it's Yeshua HaMashyach (with the same name as s/o Nun in OT) who leads us to heavenly Jerusalem in our salvation which was prefigured by historical Israel going to the land of Canaan.
Jerusalem is on earth. Isaiah 66.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
Heb 1:3
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
This verse does not help your position. This verse shows Jesus seated next to his father when compared to other verses...
Acts 2:33
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Mark 16:19
So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
Luke 22:69
Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God.
Acts 2:33
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Romans 8:34
Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Hebrews 10:12
But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
 

Anthony

Well-known member
Dispersed doesn't mean many nations. That's a mistake. The nations can join Israel. Isaiah 56:1-8.


And minds. Circumcision is both physically and spiritually.


Isaiah 8:20
To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, they have no light of dawn.


You don't think you're an Israelite, do you? Based on what? Replacement theology?


Yeshua didn't prove anything.


No, the new is the old written on the hearts and minds. Same law for the native and stranger.


No, but werent outcast, they are foreigners considered as a part of God's people, v8, now.


No, the hag of Sukkot points to the wilderness journey on the way to Israel, pointing to the yetziah mitzrayim.


True.


Jerusalem is on earth. Isaiah 66.
There are two Jerusalems - on earth which is compared to Hagar, the Bondwoman. There is Jerusalem which is above:

Gal 4:
22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the servant, and one by the free woman.

23 However, the son by the servant was born according to the flesh, but the son by the free woman was born through promise.

24 These things contain an allegory, for these are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children to bondage, which is Hagar.

25 For this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and answers to the Jerusalem that exists now, for she is in bondage with her children.

26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

27 For it is written, “Rejoice, you barren who don’t bear. Break out and shout, you who don’t travail. For the desolate have more children than her who has a husband.”

See the difference between the two Jerusalems. The earthly Jerusalem pertains to the Old Covenant and Jews/Israelites without the Messiah are still in bondage to this earthly Jerusalem which is compared to Hagar and her children through Yishmael.

Those who Jews/Israelites who believe in Yeshua Messiah are in a new Covenant and are children of the free woman Sarah compared to the spiritual Jerusalem.

What makes you say Israel wasn't dispersed? Israel as a political nation was formed only in 1948. Where were the so called Jews before going back to political Israel ? Of course they were in dispersion.

James 1: 1 Jacob, a servant of God and of the Lord Yeshua the Messiah, to the twelve tribes which are in the Diaspora: Greetings.

1Pet 1: 1 Peter, an emissary of Yeshua the Messiah, to the chosen ones who are living as foreigners in the Diaspora in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia.

You don't believe in the NT but the OT says only Jews returned from Babylonian captivity but the majority of 10 tribes didn't return from their Assyrian captivity. They are still in dispersion and will remain dispersed and the chosen in Yeshua Messiah will not return to political Israel because they believe the earthy Jerusalem is like a Bondwoman Hagar.

Many of the Christendom is also deceived into believing that they are a different people other than Israel. But the true believers know that their OT fathers were Israelites with scriptures witnessing to their hearts. There is no other salvation plan. There cannot be a new group of people that can be under the new Covenant apart from having historical fathers under the old covenant. The old covenant still witnessing to us in our flesh nature where by sin results. Apostle Paul mentions of this in Romans 7.

The Torah is distinguished between sin/death AND the Ruach of Life in Yeshua Messiah - Rom 8:1.

That's the difference between earthy Jerusalem and the heavenly Jerusalem.

Luke 19:2 And see, a man called Zakkai! And he was a chief tax collector, and he was rich,
9 Yeshua said to him, “Today, salvation has come to this house, because he also is a son of Abraham.

10 For the Son of Man came to seek and to save that which was lost.”

Yeshua Messiah came to seek for the lost sheep of the house of Israel - promised children of Abraham.

Mat 15:24 But he answered, “I wasn’t sent to anyone but the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

Jewry without Yeshua Messiah is empty.
 

Anthony

Well-known member
Mi
This verse does not help your position. This verse shows Jesus seated next to his father when compared to other verses...
Acts 2:33
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Mark 16:19
So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
Luke 22:69
Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God.
Acts 2:33
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Romans 8:34
Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Hebrews 10:12
But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
Mixing Apples with Oranges.
 

Tanachreader

Well-known member
This verse does not help your position. This verse shows Jesus seated next to his father when compared to other verses...
Acts 2:33
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Mark 16:19
So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
Luke 22:69
Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God.
Acts 2:33
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Romans 8:34
Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Hebrews 10:12
But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
What position are you speaking of as He is God’s Son the Lamb of God.
 

rod.ney

Well-known member
There is no mention of a God the word in the scripture. How many Gods do you really have? You have a God who is the trinity, you have a God who is the father, you have a God who is the son and you have a God who is the HS. But you say you have one God. How can anyone take you seriously?
FYI again Newbirth, John 1:1 POINT BLANK says " the Word was God " before He became " Flesh " as Jesus Christ the God-Man in John 1:14! Thus the correct conclusion is God the Word since the Word " was God "! Case closed on your Twisted nonsense! Thus again if the Son " was God " then it is correct to also say God the Son! Your view remains 100% rebuked by John 1:1+14 & 8:58 ; Heb.1:6+8 and Isaiah 9:6 as per 2 Tim.3:16!
 

rod.ney

Well-known member
Jesus is neither. A son wouldn't be a father to himself. ;)

Psalm 45:6, the original for Hebrews 1:8 which forged its translation, doesn't mention the son.

John 4:21-22
Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.
You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews.

Jesus worshipped the true God. You don't. Jews never worshipped anyone else.
FYI again Jesus is Both fully God ( the Word in John 1:1 & Isaiah 9:6 - Mighty God ) and fully human as a Man ( the Flesh of John 1:14 & the child/son given in Isaiah 9:6! He is the " Everlasting Father " of creation as per John 1:3/Col.1:16 in conjunction with Isaiah 9:6! He is not the Father of His human body, as it was God the Holy Spirit & God the Father that caused His conception ( they provided the "Y " chromosome need for a male baby - His Flesh of John 1:14 ) with one of Mary's eggs ( " X " Chromosome ) in her womb as per Matt.1:20 & Luke 1:34-35! Joseph was His step or Foster Father because Jesus had NO Biological human father! That's why only He is called " the only Begotten Son of God ( the Father & Holy Spirit ) in John 1:18 & 3:16+18! Those NT scriptures in no way contradicts Isaiah 9:6 in the OT! They complement it! The one True GOD of the scriptures is a TRINITY ( FSHS of Matt.28:19 ), and that is exactly why He said " US & OUR " in Gen.1:26! Case closed!
 
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rod.ney

Well-known member
Neither was Jesus.

Moses was called God, Exodus 7:1. So were the judges, Exodus 21:6,22:8-9, Psalm 82:6.

Abraham as God, Genesis 23:6.
Angels as God, Psalm 8:5.
Kings as God, Zechariah 12:8.
Altar as God, Genesis 35:7.
FYI again, Jesus is the given child/Son mentioned in Isaiah 9:6 and He is in Fact called " Mighty God " in that OT scripture! CONTEXT is Key! Those men in Psalm 82:6 are called gods ( non-Deity ) and not God ( Deity ) as per CORRECT CONTEXT! Case closed!
 
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Newbirth

Well-known member
FYI again Newbirth, John 1:1 POINT BLANK says " the Word was God " before He became " Flesh " as Jesus Christ the God-Man in John 1:14! Thus the correct conclusion is God the Word since the Word " was God "! Case closed on your Twisted nonsense!
The passage also says the word was with God. Does this mean two Gods? Is that not teaching multiple Gods?
You are concluding that either the word was his father before he became his own son or that there are two individual Gods in the passage. There is no mention of a God-man in the scripture are you saying that Jesus was a hybrid? A cross between God and man. Half man half God?. Jesus was a man who died.
Thus again if the Son " was God " then it is correct to also say God the Son!
That is like saying the son Jesus was his father God. If there is only one God you cannot say God the Son and God the Father and God the HS. That is three Gods.
Your view remains 100% rebuked by John 1:1+14 & 8:58 ; Heb.1:6+8 and Isaiah 9:6 as per 2 Tim.3:16!
You have not rebuked anything. Jesus cannot be God if his Father id God.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
FYI again, Jesus is the given child/Son mentioned in Isaiah 9:6 and He is in Fact called " Mighty God " in that OT scripture! CONTEXT is Key!
Jesus was never called Mighty God nor any of the other names.

Those men in Psalm 82:6 are called gods ( non-Deity ) and not God ( Deity ) as per CORRECT CONTEXT! Case closed!
The Hebrew elohim is used here. So if God can be pierced as you say, then these judges are God as well.
 
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