Did Jesus teach he was GOD himself?

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
You must be BLIND, as the readers of Matt.24:15 can CLEARLY see the Prophet Daniel mentioned in the NT and it is SPECIFIC to Dan.9:27 of the OT, as Matt.24:29-31 in the NT states that the son of man ( Jesus ) will " Immediately " RETURN ( 2nd coming Jewjitzu ) at the END of the 7 years of Tribulation of the referenced prophet Daniel ( Dan.9:27 ) in verse 15 of Matt.24 in our NT! You WRONGFULLY stated ( on record on CARM ) that it is NOT reference in our NT ( it clearly is in Matt.24:15-31, And yes His 1st coming & getting cut off is mentioned in Dan.9:25-26 ( this already happened, but Not verse 27 that is still future )! Case closed on your say so that it is not! So here it is again for the readers to see what you are completely BLIND to -------------------

Matthew 24:15-31​

New International Version​

15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ( AOD ) ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.
22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.
26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming ( 2nd coming ) of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.
29 “Immediately after the distress of those days
“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’[b]
30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[c] will mourn when they see the Son of Man ( Jesus ) coming ( 2 coming - Post Trib. of Dan.9:27 Jewjitzu - it is still FUTURE - it has NOT happened yet ) on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.[d] 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
Read full chapter

Footnotes​

  1. Matthew 24:15 Daniel 9:27; 11:31; 12:11
  2. Matthew 24:29 Isaiah 13:10; 34:4
  3. Matthew 24:30 Or the tribes of the land
  4. Matthew 24:30 See Daniel 7:13-14.
So, like I said, there is zero proof that Jesus is the fulfillment of Daniel 9:25-27. Nothing is said of a 2nd coming either. You've arbitrarily added that yourself. ;)
 

rod.ney

Well-known member
So, like I said, there is zero proof that Jesus is the fulfillment of Daniel 9:25-27. Nothing is said of a 2nd coming either. You've arbitrarily added that yourself. ;)
So like what you said is still 100% WRONG because I proved it reference in the NT and the readers can CLEARLY see it because I posted those scriptures in the NT ( Matt.24:15-31 ) and they reference the Prophet Daniel in verse 15 and the Son of Man ( Jesus ) making His 2nd coming " Immediately " at the end of those 7 years of Dan.9:27 in verses 29-31! Only the BLIND can't see those references in our NT! Case closed!
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
So like what you said is still 100% WRONG because I proved it reference in the NT and the readers can CLEARLY see it because I posted those scriptures in the NT ( Matt.24:15-31 ) and they reference the Prophet Daniel in verse 15 and the Son of Man ( Jesus ) making His 2nd coming " Immediately " at the end of those 7 years of Dan.9:27 in verses 29-31! Only the BLIND can't see those references in our NT! Case closed!
So, everything is after the events of Daniel 9:25-27. Clearly Jesus nor the NT make reference to him being an anointed from that the frame in Daniel 9:25-27. The events have passed. ;)
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
So like what you said is still 100% WRONG because I proved it reference in the NT and the readers can CLEARLY see it because I posted those scriptures in the NT ( Matt.24:15-31 ) and they reference the Prophet Daniel in verse 15 and the Son of Man ( Jesus ) making His 2nd coming " Immediately " at the end of those 7 years of Dan.9:27 in verses 29-31! Only the BLIND can't see those references in our NT! Case closed!
I know what you posted in the NT. The time came and went. No mention of him being the anointed and he hasn't returned. There's no mention of a 2nd coming either. ;)
 

rod.ney

Well-known member
I know what you posted in the NT. The time came and went. No mention of him being the anointed and he hasn't returned. There's no mention of a 2nd coming either. ;)
FYI the announcement of His second coming is in Acts chapter ONE verse 11 ! Here it is for the READERS to see that you are WRONG to say NO mention of a 2nd coming -----------------------------

Acts 1:11
New International Version

11 “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.” ---------------- Case closed and you remain 100% refuted on that one!
 

Anthony

Active member
I know what you posted in the NT. The time came and went. No mention of him being the anointed and he hasn't returned. There's no mention of a 2nd coming either. ;)
He will return very shortly. There was a Calendar given by YHWH to Israel but since dispersion of Israel they lost it. Weekly Sabbaths, feast of Shavout, Sabbatical years, Jubilee years, etc. Now according to the NT, from Passover to Pentecost/Shavout are fulfilled. But the end of month feasts are still to be fulfilled and they will be fulfilled at the time of the return of Messiah.
God has taken it into His own hands this calendar and accordingly The Messiah will return.

It will happen exactly after accomplishment of 6ooo years (120 Jubilee years) after this will be eternal Sabbath.

God is giving us the clue in Gen 6:3

3 And יהוה said, “My Spirit shall not strive with man forever in his going astray. He is flesh, and his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.”

Now it cannot be literal 120 years but Jubilee years from the time of man's going astray.

We have only 2 translations which correctly translate this verse while all others don't mention 'man's going astray and that's from Adam.

It's been established from the genealogy from Adam to Yeshua Messiah that it's 4000 years. But after Messiah, there is no longer genealogy nor the calendar given to Israel. It was replaced by a Julian Calendar and subsequently by the Gregorian calendar. That's why it's impossible to predict exact day of Messiah's return. However, it will be exactly after 6000 years.

We know the creation took place literally in 6 days:

Exod 20: 11 for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day; therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day, and made it holy.

Forget about NASA and evolutionists We have to look for clues from scriptures.

2Pet 3:

7 But the heavens that exist now and the earth, by the same word have been stored up for fire, being reserved against the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

8 But don’t forget this one thing, beloved, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

9 The Lord is not slow concerning his promise, as some count slowness; but he is patient with us, not wishing that anyone should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

These verses give us the clue of the 2nd coming of Yeshua Messiah.

The present creation (approximately 6000 years from genealogy + 2000 years since first coming of Messiah) is in store for fire of judgement and destruction of ungodly men with Whom YHWH's Ruach strived with man because all He doesn't want anyone from His elect to perish.

6 days of creation where Adam was created on day 6. One day with The Lord is as 1000 years in our perspective and 1000 years as one day. 6*1000 = 6000 years (from Adam's falling) = 120 Jubilee years.

We are quite close and the events happening in the world and Israel is a sign.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
FYI the announcement of His second coming is in Acts chapter ONE verse 11 ! Here it is for the READERS to see that you are WRONG to say NO mention of a 2nd coming -----------------------------

Acts 1:11​

New International Version​

11 “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.” ---------------- Case closed and you remain 100% refuted on that one!
Tanakh doesn't speak of Messiah having 2 comings.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
He will return very shortly. There was a Calendar given by YHWH to Israel but since dispersion of Israel they lost it. Weekly Sabbaths, feast of Shavout, Sabbatical years, Jubilee years, etc. Now according to the NT, from Passover to Pentecost/Shavout are fulfilled. But the end of month feasts are still to be fulfilled and they will be fulfilled at the time of the return of Messiah.
God has taken it into His own hands this calendar and accordingly The Messiah will return.
This is false as we follow the same weekly Sabbath as we did over 2000 years ago, etc.

It will happen exactly after accomplishment of 6ooo years (120 Jubilee years) after this will be eternal Sabbath.
No one knows the time.

God is giving us the clue in Gen 6:3

3 And יהוה said, “My Spirit shall not strive with man forever in his going astray. He is flesh, and his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.”

Now it cannot be literal 120 years but Jubilee years from the time of man's going astray.

We have only 2 translations which correctly translate this verse while all others don't mention 'man's going astray and that's from Adam.
Where did you get this translation?

It's been established from the genealogy from Adam to Yeshua Messiah that it's 4000 years. But after Messiah, there is no longer genealogy nor the calendar given to Israel. It was replaced by a Julian Calendar and subsequently by the Gregorian calendar. That's why it's impossible to predict exact day of Messiah's return. However, it will be exactly after 6000 years.
We still have our own calendar. Messiah hasn't come yet.

We know the creation took place literally in 6 days:

Exod 20: 11 for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day; therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day, and made it holy.

Forget about NASA and evolutionists We have to look for clues from scriptures.
The Genesis accounts show themselves that the days are not literal.

2Pet 3:
7 But the heavens that exist now and the earth, by the same word have been stored up for fire, being reserved against the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

8 But don’t forget this one thing, beloved, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

9 The Lord is not slow concerning his promise, as some count slowness; but he is patient with us, not wishing that anyone should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

These verses give us the clue of the 2nd coming of Yeshua Messiah.

The present creation (approximately 6000 years from genealogy + 2000 years since first coming of Messiah) is in store for fire of judgement and destruction of ungodly men with Whom YHWH's Ruach strived with man because all He doesn't want anyone from His elect to perish.

6 days of creation where Adam was created on day 6. One day with The Lord is as 1000 years in our perspective and 1000 years as one day. 6*1000 = 6000 years (from Adam's falling) = 120 Jubilee years.
Quite a tale.

We are quite close and the events happening in the world and Israel is a sign.
I hope Messiah comes soon.
 

Anthony

Active member
This is false as we follow the same weekly Sabbath as we did over 2000 years ago, etc.


No one knows the time.


Where did you get this translation?


We still have our own calendar. Messiah hasn't come yet.


The Genesis accounts show themselves that the days are not literal.


Quite a tale.


I hope Messiah comes soon.
No, you don't have a correct calendar now and don't believe in the New Covenant already established. If it were correct we would have known the exact day in which Messiah would return.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
No, you don't have a correct calendar now and don't believe in the New Covenant already established. If it were correct we would have known the exact day in which Messiah would return.
It's easy to verify the 7th day Sabbath hasn't changed from the 2nd temple times. The rest follows.

The new covenant in Jeremiah 31:31-34 is exclusively with Israel. It's crystal clear.

Messiah hasn't come yet.
 

Anthony

Active member
This is false as we follow the same weekly Sabbath as we did over 2000 years ago, etc.


No one knows the time.


Where did you get this translation?


We still have our own calendar. Messiah hasn't come yet.


The Genesis accounts show themselves that the days are not literal.


Quite a tale.


I hope Messiah comes soon.
expand...
Where did you get this translation?

Gen 6:3. wayo’mer Yahúwah lo’-yadon Ruchi ba’adam l’`olam b’shagam hu’ basar
w’hayu yamayu me’ah w’`esrim shanah.

Gen6:3 Then YHWH said, My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, in their erring he is flesh; and his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.

Actually the word is from 'Shagah'.


H7686

Original: שׁגה

Transliteration: shâgâh

Phonetic: shaw-gaw'

BDB Definition
:

  1. to go astray, stray, err
    1. (Qal)
      1. to err, stray
      2. to swerve, meander, reel, roll, be intoxicated, err (in drunkenness)
      3. to go astray (morally)
      4. to commit sin of ignorance or inadvertence, err (ignorantly)
    2. (Hiphil)
      1. to lead astray
      2. to lead astray, mislead (mentally)
      3. to lead astray (morally).

The Strong's Hebrew word 'Gam' which is incorrect and has been translated as 'also'.

H1571

Original: גּם

Transliteration: gam

Phonetic: gam

BDB Definition
:

  1. also, even, indeed, moreover, yea.
We have correct translation in TS2009:


Gen 6: 3 And יהוה said, “My Spirit shall not strive with man forever in his going astray. He is flesh, and his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.”

This is what gives us a clue that 120 years is not literal as men died at different ages. This clue that God has given can only be understood with further development in the NT. It has to be Jubilee years (120*50 = 2000) years.

2Pet 3 gives us the time of Mashyach's return:

3 knowing this first: that mockers shall come in the last days with mocking, walking according to their own lusts,

4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming?
For since the fathers fell asleep, all continues as from the beginning of creation.”

Then Peter explains:

5 For they choose to have this hidden from them: that the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, by the Word of Elohim, a

6 through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water.

7 And the present heavens and the earth are treasured up by the same Word, being kept for fire, to a day of judgment and destruction of wicked men.

8 But, beloved ones, let not this one matter be hidden from you: that with יהוה one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

9 יהוה is not slow in regard to the promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward us, not wishing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

Peter explains about the destruction from Noah's flood and the present is kept for judgement of ungodly men. He is still striving with flesh because He wants all His elect to be saved.

Yeshua Messiah also said in the gospel accounts that His 2nd coming is alike the time of Noah.

Mat 24: 37 “And as the days of Noaḥ, so also shall the coming of the Son of Aḏam be.

38 “For as they were in the days before the flood, eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noaḥ entered into the ark,

39 and they did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also shall the coming of the Son of Aḏam be.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
Where did you get this translation?

Gen 6:3. wayo’mer Yahúwah lo’-yadon Ruchi ba’adam l’`olam b’shagam hu’ basar
w’hayu yamayu me’ah w’`esrim shanah.

Gen6:3 Then YHWH said, My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, in their erring he is flesh; and his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.

Actually the word is from 'Shagah'.
Actually, no translation that I know of agrees with yours above.


H7686

Original: שׁגה

Transliteration: shâgâh

Phonetic: shaw-gaw'

BDB Definition
:

  1. to go astray, stray, err
    1. (Qal)
      1. to err, stray
      2. to swerve, meander, reel, roll, be intoxicated, err (in drunkenness)
      3. to go astray (morally)
      4. to commit sin of ignorance or inadvertence, err (ignorantly)
    2. (Hiphil)
      1. to lead astray
      2. to lead astray, mislead (mentally)
      3. to lead astray (morally).

The Strong's Hebrew word 'Gam' which is incorrect and has been translated as 'also'.

H1571

Original: גּם

Transliteration: gam

Phonetic: gam

BDB Definition
:

  1. also, even, indeed, moreover, yea.
We have correct translation in TS2009:


Gen 6: 3 And יהוה said, “My Spirit shall not strive with man forever in his going astray. He is flesh, and his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.”

This is what gives us a clue that 120 years is not literal as men died at different ages. This clue that God has given can only be understood with further development in the NT. It has to be Jubilee years (120*50 = 2000) years.
There are a few explanations that I've seen. One, man's lifetime would be limited in general to 120 years. Two, the generation of the flood had 120 years left.

Your fudge factor for the Jubilee years above, 50, is arbitrary. There's no suggestion this is the context.

2Pet 3 gives us the time of Mashyach's return:

3 knowing this first: that mockers shall come in the last days with mocking, walking according to their own lusts,

4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming?
For since the fathers fell asleep, all continues as from the beginning of creation.”

Then Peter explains:

5 For they choose to have this hidden from them: that the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, by the Word of Elohim, a

6 through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water.

7 And the present heavens and the earth are treasured up by the same Word, being kept for fire, to a day of judgment and destruction of wicked men.

8 But, beloved ones, let not this one matter be hidden from you: that with יהוה one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
Yes, this is stated in the Psalms. How many days are a billion years?

9 יהוה is not slow in regard to the promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward us, not wishing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

Peter explains about the destruction from Noah's flood and the present is kept for judgement of ungodly men. He is still striving with flesh because He wants all His elect to be saved.

Yeshua Messiah also said in the gospel accounts that His 2nd coming is alike the time of Noah.

Mat 24: 37 “And as the days of Noaḥ, so also shall the coming of the Son of Aḏam be.

38 “For as they were in the days before the flood, eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noaḥ entered into the ark,

39 and they did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also shall the coming of the Son of Aḏam be.
And? People in general are not waiting the Messiah. Just like they weren't awaiting destruction in Noah's time.
 

Anthony

Active member
Actually, no translation that I know of agrees with yours above.



There are a few explanations that I've seen. One, man's lifetime would be limited in general to 120 years. Two, the generation of the flood had 120 years left.

Your fudge factor for the Jubilee years above, 50, is arbitrary. There's no suggestion this is the context.


Yes, this is stated in the Psalms. How many days are a billion years?


And? People in general are not waiting the Messiah. Just like they weren't awaiting destruction in Noah's time.
Doesn't matter many translations missed it completely.

There is one more translation AFV+ which translates 'straying away' but fails to give Strong's no.

Totally there are 3 translations I know of which do the same: Baiyit HaMashyach, TS2009 and AFV+

I believe these Translators got it correct while others didn't because it's an important clue to Mashyach's coming.

Gen 6: 3 And יהוה said, “My Spirit shall not strive with man forever in his going astray. He is flesh, and his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.” - TS2009 (it also uses 'YHWH' instead of The LORD).

Gen6:3 Then YHWH said, My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, in their erring he is flesh; and his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.- (http://www.bayithamashiyach.com/Scriptures.html)


And the LORDH3068HNp said,H559HC HVqw3ms "My spiritH7307HNcbsc HSp1cs shall notH3808HTn alwaysH5769HR HNcmsa striveH1777HVqi3ms with manH120HRd HNcmsa in his going astray, for heH1931HPp3ms is but flesh,H1320HNcmsa and yetH1571HR HTr HD his daysH3117HNcmpc HSp3ms shall beH1961HC HVqq3cp a hundredH3967HAcbsa and twentyH6242HC HAcbpa years."H8141HNcfsa - AFV+

120 years is not a literal time period of only one generation. If there was no NT, it would not make any sense. Since you don't believe in the NT, it's difficult for you to understand. Even Christendom has no clue about the prophetic clock hovering over God's Israel. It believes in Church replacing Israel.
 
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Jewjitzu

Well-known member
Doesn't matter many translations missed it completely.
More likely yours did. ;)

There is one more translation AFV+ which translates 'straying away' but fails to give Strong's no.

Totally there are 3 translations I know of which do the same: Baiyit HaMashyach, TS2009 and AFV+

I believe these Translators got it correct while others didn't because it's an important clue to Mashyach's coming.
And that's the problem. A bias towards seeing what they want to see.

Gen 6: 3 And יהוה said, “My Spirit shall not strive with man forever in his going astray. He is flesh, and his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.” - TS2009 (it also uses 'YHWH' instead of The LORD).

Gen6:3 Then YHWH said, My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, in their erring he is flesh; and his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.- (http://www.bayithamashiyach.com/Scriptures.html)
So what?

And the LORDH3068HNp said,H559HC HVqw3ms "My spiritH7307HNcbsc HSp1cs shall notH3808HTn alwaysH5769HR HNcmsa striveH1777HVqi3ms with manH120HRd HNcmsa in his going astray, for heH1931HPp3ms is but flesh,H1320HNcmsa and yetH1571HR HTr HD his daysH3117HNcmpc HSp3ms shall beH1961HC HVqq3cp a hundredH3967HAcbsa and twentyH6242HC HAcbpa years."H8141HNcfsa - AFV+

120 years is not a literal time period of only one generation. If there was no NT, it would not make any sense. Since you don't believe in the NT, it's difficult for you to understand. Even Christendom has no clue about the prophetic clock hovering over God's Israel. It believes in Church replacing Israel.
Again, there's nothing at all in context related to the Jubilee years. It's made up.
 

rod.ney

Well-known member
So is the real Messiah.
Yes the REAL Messiah ( Jesus Christ ) will come AGAIN in the future because Acts Chapter One ( specifically verse 11 ) Tells us He will and it will be at the Immediately after the still future Dan.9:27 distress! Case closed! ----------------------------------------

Acts 1:11​

New International Version​

11 “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.” ---------------------------------

Matthew 24:29-30​

New International Version​

29 Immediately after the distress ( 7 year Trib.- Dan.9:27 ) of those days
“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’
30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man ( Jesus ) in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming ( 2nd coming Jewjitzu ) on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
Yes the REAL Messiah ( Jesus Christ ) will come AGAIN in the future because Acts Chapter One ( specifically verse 11 ) Tells us He will and it will be at the Immediately after the still future Dan.9:27 distress! Case closed! ----------------------------------------

Acts 1:11​

New International Version​

11 “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.” ---------------------------------

Matthew 24:29-30​

New International Version​

29 Immediately after the distress ( 7 year Trib.- Dan.9:27 ) of those days
“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’
30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man ( Jesus ) in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming ( 2nd coming Jewjitzu ) on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.
As I said, the Messiah hasn't arrived nor has 2 comings.
 
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