Did Jesus teach he was GOD himself?

Theo1689

Well-known member
What did Jesus really teach about WHO is GOD to his followers? Did they believe he was God? Did they teach that belief to the next generation of Christians who learned their own beliefs from them?

When did that belief appear on the Christian scene and why is that fact important to us today?

It's sad and a colossal waste of time when you ask questions and you have no interest in the answers, and reject the true answers which are given to you...

But that's pretty much what I've learned to expect from JW's...
 

Lilel01

Well-known member
Yes, it is a colossal waste of time, that I quote Jesus mentioning who the "true worshipers" worship and ... who of you care what he says?

John 4:21 Jesus said to her: “Believe me, woman, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. 22 You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, because salvation begins with the Jews. 23 Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit, and those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth.”
 

rossh

Well-known member
And despite the years of Jewish and Christian scholarship which has clearly shown the correct pronunciation of YHWH is Yahweh.
From the Jewish Encyclopedia
This name is commonly represented in modern translations by the form "Jehovah," which, however, is a philological impossibility (see Jehovah). This form has arisen through attempting to pronounce the consonants of the name with the vowels of Adonai (אדני = "Lord"), which the Masorites have inserted in the text, indicating thereby that Adonai was to be read (as a "keri perpetuum") instead of Yhwh. When the name Adonai itself precedes, to avoid repetition of this name, Yhwh is written by the Masorites with the vowels of Elohim, in which case Elohim is read instead of Yhwh. In consequence of this Masoretic reading the authorized and revised English versions (though not the American edition of the revised version) render Yhwh by the word "Lord" in the great majority of cases.​
I am not Jewish so, I can not comment. I have many Jewish friends just the same. Look up the language, NO " J " in Hebrew/Jewish. google it.
 

rossh

Well-known member
Yes, it is a colossal waste of time, that I quote Jesus mentioning who the "true worshipers" worship and ... who of you care what he says?

John 4:21 Jesus said to her: “Believe me, woman, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. 22 You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, because salvation begins with the Jews. 23 Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit, and those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth.”
simply put the Jews lost the plot yet again...
 

Lilel01

Well-known member
And it is a colossal waste of time, that I quote Jesus mentioning that his own God is the God of his brothers (his disciples) and ... ... who of you care what he says?

John 20:17 Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’ ”
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
And it is a colossal waste of time, that I quote Jesus mentioning that his own God is the God of his brothers (his disciples) and ... ... who of you care what he says?

So you bring attitude to this discussion, and assume that we reject Scripture.
It's too bad you couldn't obey Jesus and try being charitable.

To answer your question, ALL Trinitarians "care what he says".

John 20:17 Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’ ”

Amen!
No Trinitarian ignores the above.
We believe it and love that Scripture!

What did you expect?
Jesus is recognizing His Father as God (as all Trinitarians do).
Did you expect Jesus to be an atheist, and not recognize God?
Seriously?!
But since that passage does NOT say, "Jesus is not God", it's really irrelevant to the SPECIFIC discussion we are having.



In the mean time, YOU are the one who continues to IGNORE:

John: "and the Word was God" (John 1:1);
Jesus: "Before Abraham was, I AM" (John 8:58);
Thomas calling Jesus, "My Lord and my God!" (John 20:28);
Paul: "the church of God, which He bought with His own blood" (Acts 20:28);
Paul: "the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever." (Rom. 9:5);
Paul: "the kingdom of the Christ and God" (Eph. 5:5);
Paul: "[Christ Jesus] though He was in the form of God" (Phil. 2:6);
Paul: "in [Christ] the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily" (Col. 2:9);
Paul: "our God and Lord, Jesus Christ" (2 Thess. 1:12);
Paul: "the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ" (Tit. 2:13);
Hebrews: "But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God" (Heb. 1:8);
Peter: "the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ" (2 Pet. 1:1);

Why do you IGNORE all these passages?
And more importantly, why do you expect ME to ignore these passages?


And since JW's like to try to use the ECF's (which they've clearly never read) to try to disprove the deity of Christ, I also offer the following:

"... by the will of the Father and Jesus Christ our God."
-- Ignatius, Eph. 1:0

... once restored to new life in the Blood of God, ...
-- Ignatius, Eph. 1:1

... having received knowledge of God, that is, Jesus Christ!
-- Ignatius, Eph. 17:2

... The fact is, our God Jesus Christ was conceived by Mary...
-- Ignatius, Eph. 18:2

... God was making His appearance in human form ...
-- Ignatius, Eph. 19:3

... puffed up and cling inseparably to God Jesus Christ, ...
-- Ignatius, Tral. 7:1

... beloved and illuminated through the faith and love of Jesus Christ our God;
-- Ignatius, Rom. 1:0

... Heartiest good wishes for unimpaired joy in Jesus Christ our God, ...
-- Ignatius, Rom. 1:0

... Our God Jesus Christ certainly is the more clearly seen now ...
-- Ignatius, Rom. 3:3

I extol Jesus Christ, the God who has granted you such wisdom.
-- Ignatius, Smyr. 1:1

... it was good of you to give them a warm reception as to servants of Christ God.
-- Ignatius, Smyr. 10:1

I say good-bye to you all forever in Jesus Christ our God,
-- Ignatius, Poly. 8:3

... may He grant unto you a lot and portion among His saints, ... who shall believe on our Lord and God Jesus Christ
-- Polycarp, Phili. 12:2

“ I wish to do in order to prove that Christ is called both God and Lord of hosts, ..."
-- Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho, 36

He was God, Son of the only, unbegotten, unutterable God.”
-- Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho, 126

“And that Christ being Lord, and God the Son of God, and appearing formerly in power ...
-- Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho, 128

"... who also, being the first-begotten Word of God, is even God.
-- Justin Martyr, First Apology, 63

“It was He because of whom the earth quaked.
He that hung up the earth in space was Himself hanged up;
He that fixed the heavens was fixed with nails;
He that bore up the earth was borne up on a tree;
the Lord of all was subjected to ignominy in a naked body—
God put to death! the King of Israel slain with Israel’s right hand!
[...]
they slew God, who hung naked on the tree."
-- Melito of Sardis, Part V

“... in order that to Christ Jesus, our Lord, and God, and Saviour, and King,
-- Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 1.10.1

“... His birth from a virgin, and His essence, that He is God (for the name Emmanuel indicates this)."
-- Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 3.21.4

Christ Himself, therefore, together with the Father, is the God of the living, ..."
-- Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 4.5.2

“He received testimony from all that He was very man, and that He was very God,"
-- Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 4.6.7

This Word, then, the Christ, the cause of both our being at first (for He was in God) and of our well-being, this very Word has now appeared as man, He alone being both, both God and man—the Author of all blessings to us;
-- Clement of Alexandria, Exhortation to the Heathen, 1

"the expiator of sin, the Saviour, the clement, the Divine Word, He that is truly most manifest Deity,”
-- Clement of Alexandria, Exhortation to the Heathen, 10

“For God alone is without sin; and the only man without sin is Christ, since Christ is also God.
-- Tertullian, Treatise on the Soul, Part 1, 41

Thus Christ is Spirit of Spirit, and God of God, as light of light is kindled.”
-- Tertullian, Apology, 21
 
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rossh

Well-known member
I think I mentioned two things.
1. Did Jesus ever disobey a command from the Father?
2. When the Jewish leaders accused Jesus of making Himself God did He deny it?
John 8 what did Jesus say that so infuriated the Jewish leaders that they immediately, without a hearing, picked up stones, in the temple, to stone Him.
αλλα περι βλασφημιας και οτι συ ανθρωπος ων ποιεις σεαυτον θεον.
How can we even know if Yeshua disobeyed a command from the Father ? HOW is it possible to know either way ?
Did He deny being God ? well yes indeed He did, well as far as I can tell form Scriptures He often said that God was His Father.. He also went about proving how bad the Jewish Priests actually were. This is what the real reason is for His being got rid of.. Look back over time and history, mankind has always been the exact same, except for technology that is...
Look,,
John 21:25 25Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.
 

Tanachreader

Well-known member
How can we even know if Yeshua disobeyed a command from the Father ? HOW is it possible to know either way ?
Did He deny being God ? well yes indeed He did, well as far as I can tell form Scriptures He often said that God was His Father.. He also went about proving how bad the Jewish Priests actually were. This is what the real reason is for His being got rid of.. Look back over time and history, mankind has always been the exact same, except for technology that is...
Look,,
John 21:25 25Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.
Anti Christ talk!
 

Tanachreader

Well-known member
why do you even think that, I am a true believe in the Messiah.. Pro Christ to the Max.. Oh I See Troll..... If you know that Yeshua did sin then let us know.. all about it ???
Why would you even think Jesus did wrong?
Never heard that from a believer.
I will leave it alone.
Galatians 5:15 KJV — But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
 

rossh

Well-known member
And it is a colossal waste of time, that I quote Jesus mentioning that his own God is the God of his brothers (his disciples) and ... ... who of you care what he says?

John 20:17 Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’ ”
well ? and what of this ? How does this change anything and what does it change ? Is Yeshua changing everything that He came for and or what He did already by this ? Yes!! we already KNOW what He said, it has been in the Bible for 400 hundred years+- and since the time He actually spoke those words to that woman... I am sure that you have some kind of " point " that you are attempting to make here ?
Well, I am at a total loss, are you and I, apparently having some kind of dispute, that I am totally unaware of ?
Yes, I know about and believe in His Own God, who is MY God Yes,
I know about and believe in His Own God, who is MY God...
I know about and believe in His Own God, who is MY God
I know about and believe in His Own God, who is MY God
 

rossh

Well-known member
Why would you even think Jesus did wrong?
Never heard that from a believer.
I will leave it alone.
Galatians 5:15 KJV — But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
why would you even think that I think that YESHUA did anything wrong.. I at least have His Real True Hebrew Name.... you should go back to your homosexual and pedophilic RCC edited... His Real true Name is Yeshua!!!
 
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rossh

Well-known member
Why would you even think Jesus did wrong?
Never heard that from a believer.
I will leave it alone.
Galatians 5:15 KJV — But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
you terrible misuse of Scripture is sinful, right ?

13 For, brothers, you were called to be free. Only do not let that freedom become an excuse for allowing your old nature to have its way. Instead, serve one another in love. 14 For the whole of the Torah is summed up in this one sentence: “Love your neighbor as yourself”;[a] 15 but if you go on snapping at each other and tearing each other to pieces, watch out, or you will be destroyed by each other!

16 What I am saying is this: run your lives by the Spirit. Then you will not do what your old nature wants. 17 For the old nature wants what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit wants what is contrary to the old nature. These oppose each other, so that you find yourselves unable to carry out your good intentions. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, then you are not in subjection to the system that results from perverting the Torah into legalism.
Verse numbers are for ease of use not for definitions....

Curb you " old nature " ASAP..
 

Tanachreader

Well-known member
you terrible misuse of Scripture is sinful, right ?

13 For, brothers, you were called to be free. Only do not let that freedom become an excuse for allowing your old nature to have its way. Instead, serve one another in love. 14 For the whole of the Torah is summed up in this one sentence: “Love your neighbor as yourself”;[a] 15 but if you go on snapping at each other and tearing each other to pieces, watch out, or you will be destroyed by each other!

16 What I am saying is this: run your lives by the Spirit. Then you will not do what your old nature wants. 17 For the old nature wants what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit wants what is contrary to the old nature. These oppose each other, so that you find yourselves unable to carry out your good intentions. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, then you are not in subjection to the system that results from perverting the Torah into legalism.
Verse numbers are for ease of use not for definitions....

Curb you " old nature " ASAP..
You speak of yourself
 

rossh

Well-known member
You speak of yourself
No, wrong still.. look at what God is saying.. 13 For, brothers, you were called to be free. Only do not let that freedom become an excuse for allowing your old nature to have its way. Instead, serve one another in love. 14 For the whole of the Torah is summed up in this one sentence: “Love your neighbor as yourself”;[a] 15 but if you go on snapping at each other and tearing each other to pieces, watch out, or you will be destroyed by each other!

God Bless the Tanakh -Teacher..
 

rossh

Well-known member
Anti Christ talk!
Still wrrongggggggggggggggggggg,, I am so much PRO Yeshua/Messiah that it is making you sick, as I am saved, from eternal doom and fire because He Yeshua is my Lord and Messiah/Savior!!

Your petty squabbles are very jocular, non scriptural but, very amusing!
 

rossh

Well-known member
Yes, it is a colossal waste of time, that I quote Jesus mentioning who the "true worshipers" worship and ... who of you care what he says?

John 4:21 Jesus said to her: “Believe me, woman, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. 22 You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, because salvation begins with the Jews. 23 Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit, and those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth.”
Now THAT is what I am trying to impart to the unbelievers here, there, and everywhere.. Keep saying and witnessing what you say and witness, Amen!
 

rossh

Well-known member
And it is a colossal waste of time, that I quote Jesus mentioning that his own God is the God of his brothers (his disciples) and ... ... who of you care what he says?

John 20:17 Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’ ”
why ??? He is speaking in a Jewish fashion not like in a USA fashion " eee bro sup ? "
 

DoctrinesofGraceBapt

Well-known member
So, this is my point on this thread: Did Jesus teach he was GOD himself?

If he did, then we should believe it ... but if he did not, what should we do?

Luke 6:46 “Why, then, do you call me ‘Lord! Lord!’ but do not do the things I say?

What do you mean by God himself? Did Jesus teach he was God the Father. Clearly not: "And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed." John 17:5. Did Jesus teach he was God? Clearly yes: "This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God." John 5:18 and "I and the Father, we are one...The Jews answered him, 'It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.'” John 10:30, 33. So, Jesus taught he was God, but not the Father. Add a couple more verses, and we will have full orbed Trinitarianism.

I don't understand the relevance of Luke 6:46. Luke 6:46 is simply chastising hypocrites for calling him Lord while not acting like it..

God Bless
 

rossh

Well-known member
What do you mean by God himself? Did Jesus teach he was God the Father. Clearly not: "And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed." John 17:5. Did Jesus teach he was God? Clearly yes: "This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God." John 5:18 and "I and the Father, we are one...The Jews answered him, 'It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.'” John 10:30, 33. So, Jesus taught he was God, but not the Father. Add a couple more verses, and we will have full orbed Trinitarianism.

I don't understand the relevance of Luke 6:46. Luke 6:46 is simply chastising hypocrites for calling him Lord while not acting like it..

God Bless
He never called Himself GOD at all, so if that is true where is the passage, show us your passage where He is supposed to have done this, eg' " I am God! " no, no such verse or passages ? The Jews ( leaders also ) were full of hypocrisy .

30 I and the Father are one." lol your suppositions are at it again..
I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever. Even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.. are we calling ourselves God too ?
In that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you ?
I am no longer in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, that they may be one even as We are.
But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you..
 
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