Did Jesus teach he was GOD himself?

Theo1689

Well-known member
where Jesus made it very clear that The Father is The Only True God

[...]

17:3 where the grammar makes it clear that there is only one person who is The True God,

Did everyone notice where YWI MOVED the word "only" from modifying "true God" (which is Scripture) to moving it to modify "the Father" (which is NOT found in Scripture)?

"The Father is the ONLY true God" (True)
"ONLY the Father is the true God" (False)
 

Tanachreader

Well-known member
No, he never said he was with the Father before the world was, but rather that he had glory with the Father before the world was and the word "glory" refers to his high esteem, value and worth with God in God's foreknowledge of him before the world was and because of what he would accomplish in his suffering and death and as also per 1 Peter 1:20.

Furthermore, it is the same glory spoken of in the first verse of John 17 that both he and the Father God would be glorified with together from his hour of suffering and death and Jesus spoke of this also in John 12:23-33 below.

John 12:

23 Jesus replied, “The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified.

24 Very truly I tell you, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seeds.

25 Anyone who loves their life will lose it, while anyone who hates their life in this world will keep it for eternal life.

26 Whoever serves me must follow me; and where I am, my servant also will be. My Father will honor the one who serves me.

27 “Now my soul is troubled, and what shall I say? ‘Father, save me from this hour’? No, it was for this very reason I came to this hour.

28 Father, glorify your name!

Then a voice came from heaven,I have glorified it, and will glorify it again.”

29 The crowd that was there and heard it said it had thundered; others said an angel had spoken to him.

30 Jesus said, “This voice was for your benefit, not mine.

31 Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out. 32 And I, when I am lifted up[a] from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”

33 He said this to show the kind of death he was going to die.



Sorry but this is the glory that John was speaking of and that Isaiah saw and it is the same glory that Jesus mentioned in John 17:1 and 5 also and of which Jesus had with God in God's foreknowledge of his suffering and death before the world was.


1 Peter 1:20 "(Jesus the human Son of God) who truly was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was in these last days manifested for you"
John 17:5 KJV — And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
John 6:38 (NASB) “For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.


The above passages alone are sufficient to show Jesus’ pre-existence. Jesus Himself explicitly taught His own pre-existence as shown below.

13And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

33For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

38For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

62What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up
where he was before?

23¶And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

28I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.


If that doesn't convince you than we have The Lord saying He existed prior to Abraham’s birth (John 8:58–59) even though Abraham’s birth preceded Jesus’ own birth by many centuries! Several texts present Jesus as pre-existing with His Father (Romans 8:3; 1 John 1:2; Galatians 4:4). Several passages even identify Jesus as the Creator (John 1:2–3; Colossians 1:16–17; Hebrews 1:2).
 

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
[...]



Did everyone notice where YWI MOVED the word "only" from modifying "true God" (which is Scripture) to moving it to modify "the Father" (which is NOT found in Scripture)?

"The Father is the ONLY true God" (True)
"ONLY the Father is the true God" (False)
This shows your own ignorance and bias, for the words "The Only True God" are an adjective phrase and the whole adjective phrase modifies the Father in the passage and only the Father.

That is clearly seen when Jesus plainly states "that they might know you (Father) The Only True God", for he was praying to the Father and asking that they might know the Father as The Only True God.

He was also basing eternal life on our knowing the Father as The Only True God and in knowing Jesus as The Christ whom he The Father who is The Only True God sent.

This is what I was talking about when I said, you trins go to Bible college to learn Greek and Hebrew and mainly because they think that by it they will prove their own already pre conceived doctrines, but when they see very simple grammar like these words of Jesus in John 17:3, they reject it and try to twist it because they know deep in your guts that it totally demolishes their false doctrines about God and Jesus.


Therefore what you thought you might be able to do with this passage of John 17:3 fails, because the adjective phrase "The Only True God" was applied unto only the Father by Jesus in this passage and the word "monos" used in it reveals that no one other than the Father is the True God.

Then to top it off, Jesus made an even further distinction between himself and The Only True God by going on to say of himself that he is the Christ whom was sent by The Only True God and whom he already had identified as The Father period.
 

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
John 17:5 KJV — And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
John 6:38 (NASB) “For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.


The above passages alone are sufficient to show Jesus’ pre-existence. Jesus Himself explicitly taught His own pre-existence as shown below.

No it doesn't, for actually what Jesus is praying for here, is that God would glorify both himself and Jesus together with the glory that he speaks of in the first verse from his hour of suffering and which Jesus had with the Father in the Father's foreknowledge of it before the world was and just as Peter also confirms as a second witness on this.


1 Peter 1:20 speaking of Jesus "who truly was foreknown (prognosis) before the world was but was in these last days manifested for you"

Peter wouldn't have used the word "prognosis" here if he believed that Jesus was God and pre existed his birth as God but he would have just stated that plainly instead but the word "prognosis" used by Peter here very clearly refers to God's foreknowledge of Jesus and that he was known by God before he existed the same way as Jeremiah was in Jeremiah 1:5 and David was in Psalm 139.

With the exception of the fact, that Jesus was the firstborn over them in God's foreknowledge and which by the way, Paul even reveals in Romans 8:29 below.

Romans 8:29, "For those whom he foreknew, them he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his (human Son) that he might be the firstborn among many (human) brethren".

By the way, this includes all the saints both OT and NT and therefore would include Abraham and John the Baptist also and you might want to consider this when you read verses like John 8:58 and John 1:15, for this is what they are truly revealing and not that Jesus pre existed Abraham and John as God.


For starters, John 1:15 makes it clear when John the Baptist said that Jesus was superior to him only because he was before him and not because he was his God
13And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Notice, Jesus is speaking of himself not as the Son of God here but as the son of man and by the way, the words "which is in heaven" are not found in the best manuscripts and because they are not in all of them anyhow, they are questionable because of this fact.
33For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

Bread is a physical created substance and so was manna and Jesus even makes it clear in John 6 that it was his flesh that would give life and then he makes it clear also that the life was given unto him by God to give unto others and as per John 5:26 and John 6:57.
38For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

Indeed, he was sent from the Father via the Holy Spirit and therefore came down from heaven as a brand new created male seed to replace Adam and his failure and that is why Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:45-47 calls him the second man and last Adam and we see more on this in Romans 5:12-22.
62What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?

Yep, for he began in heaven as a new male seed and creation of God
23¶And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

Yep they are from Adam and he wasn't but instead he was sent from heaven as a brand new human male seed and not tainted by Adam's failure and sin.

This is why in John 8:24, Jesus goes on to say, "for unless you believe that I am from above and not of this world" you will die in your sins, and which simply meant that he was the Messiah that God would send to die for the sins of all men and as Isaiah 53 and Psalm 22 states.
28I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.
Same argument as in my other replies.

If that doesn't convince you than we have The Lord saying He existed prior to Abraham’s birth (John 8:58–59) even though Abraham’s birth preceded Jesus’ own birth by many centuries! Several texts present Jesus as pre-existing with His Father (Romans 8:3; 1 John 1:2; Galatians 4:4). Several passages even identify Jesus as the Creator (John 1:2–3; Colossians 1:16–17; Hebrews 1:2).

Sorry but in John 8:56-58, Jesus was speaking about himself in a vision that Abraham received and by which he saw the day when Jesus would come and walk among the Jewish people his descendants and Jesus never moved from speaking about that vision, for the vision went back further than Abraham and in fact the first prophecy of his coming was in Genesis 3:15.


So what Jesus was speaking of, is the same thing that Paul wrote about in Romans 8:29, that Jesus was the firstborn in God's plan and predestination and in his foreknowledge and also the very image that all other saints would one day be conformed to as well.

Sorry but there is no scriptures that say "Jesus created all things" anywhere in the scriptures but only that "God created all things through and in him".

This simply means that in God created all things through his foreknowledge of Jesus and what he would do on the cross by his death and it was the only reason why God created anything that he did knowing that it would be ruined by sin, for Jesus would be the remedy to make it all worth creating.

For Jesus was the hope through and in which he went ahead and created all things knowing that it would be corrupted by sin and without which hope, God wouldn't have created any of it at all period.
 
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johnny guitar

Well-known member
Do you have any idea at all how absolutely ridiculous your idea is on this?

So Jesus didn't have his own life as God to supply to his own human body in order to become a man huh?

ROFLOL, pure comical nonsense.

Sorry but it doesn't matter what the Logos was in the Beginning, for when it was made "ginomai" flesh, it became flesh period.

For that Greek word "ginomai" as used throughout scripture never refers to a substance only being added to another without a change being made in it's nature, like water that was made "ginomai" wine by Jesus in his first public miracle.



More nonsense, for why did Jesus have to be conceived by the Holy Spirit if Jesus was fully God himself and as God had his own life and would have been able to put himself into the womb of Mary to be made flesh?

How you could even think that your passage from Matthew 1:18 helps you in your nonsense would be a wonder if I didn't know from my own experience of being a trinitarian myself for better than 30 years, how absolutely mesmerized and brain washed trins are.


ROFLOL, first off, where did Jesus specify that he was only speaking as a man in those passages and how many persons is Jesus anyhow, is he also a trinity in your mixed up nonsense?

Again, if he had his own life as God, he wouldn't have needed to receive his human life from God, for he would have been able to give life unto his humanity by his own life that he had as being God himself and that is just how ridiculous your idea is about this.

Sorry but Isaiah 6:1-5 isn't about Jesus but rather Yahweh was revealing himself to Isaiah as part of his calling to be a prophet and mediator for God and his words to Israel.

This is yet another nonsensical idea of trins that John 12:37-41 was speaking of Isaiah 6:1-5 as referring to the glory of Jesus that Isaiah saw and when he never mentioned that passage but rather Isaiah 53 as being that glory instead.

Incidentally, right in the very same context in John 12:23 Jesus himself speaks of his glory as being the hour of his suffering and death and the same as what Isaiah saw and wrote of in Isaiah 53.


Here read it again yourself below.

John 12:
23 Jesus replied, “The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified. 24 Very truly I tell you, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seeds. 25 Anyone who loves their life will lose it, while anyone who hates their life in this world will keep it for eternal life. 26 Whoever serves me must follow me; and where I am, my servant also will be. My Father will honor the one who serves me.

27 “Now my soul is troubled, and what shall I say? ‘Father, save me from this hour’? No, it was for this very reason I came to this hour. 28 Father, glorify your name!”

Then a voice came from heaven, “I have glorified it, and will glorify it again.” 29 The crowd that was there and heard it said it had thundered; others said an angel had spoken to him.

30 Jesus said, “This voice was for your benefit, not mine. 31 Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out. 32 And I, when I am lifted up[g] from the earth, will draw all people to myself.” 33 He said this to show the kind of death he was going to die.



Now go read Isaiah 53 where he saw this glory about Jesus also and spoke of it and wrote about it in this chapter and this is what John mentioned as being the glory and it goes along with the context of Jesus own words in the above from the same chapter and context.
Isaiah saw the glory of Jesus in 6, NOT in 53.
 

Tanachreader

Well-known member
No it doesn't, for actually what Jesus is praying for here, is that God would glorify both himself and Jesus together with the glory that he speaks of in the first verse from his hour of suffering and which Jesus had with the Father in the Father's foreknowledge of it before the world was and just as Peter also confirms as a second witness on this.


1 Peter 1:20 speaking of Jesus "who truly was foreknown (prognosis) before the world was but was in these last days manifested for you"

Peter wouldn't have used the word "prognosis" here if he believed that Jesus was God and pre existed his birth as God but he would have just stated that plainly instead but the word "prognosis" used by Peter here very clearly refers to God's foreknowledge of Jesus and that he was known by God before he existed the same way as Jeremiah was in Jeremiah 1:5 and David was in Psalm 139.

With the exception of the fact, that Jesus was the firstborn over them in God's foreknowledge and which by the way, Paul even reveals in Romans 8:29 below.

Romans 8:29, "For those whom he foreknew, them he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his (human Son) that he might be the firstborn among many (human) brethren".

By the way, this includes all the saints both OT and NT and therefore would include Abraham and John the Baptist also and you might want to consider this when you read verses like John 8:58 and John 1:15, for this is what they are truly revealing and not that Jesus pre existed Abraham and John as God.


For starters, John 1:15 makes it clear when John the Baptist said that Jesus was superior to him only because he was before him and not because he was his God


Notice, Jesus is speaking of himself not as the Son of God here but as the son of man and by the way, the words "which is in heaven" are not found in the best manuscripts and because they are not in all of them anyhow, they are questionable because of this fact.


Bread is a physical created substance and so was manna and Jesus even makes it clear in John 6 that it was his flesh that would give life and then he makes it clear also that the life was given unto him by God to give unto others and as per John 5:26 and John 6:57.


Indeed, he was sent from the Father via the Holy Spirit and therefore came down from heaven as a brand new created male seed to replace Adam and his failure and that is why Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:45-47 calls him the second man and last Adam and we see more on this in Romans 5:12-22.


Yep, for he began in heaven as a new male seed and creation of God


Yep they are from Adam and he wasn't but instead he was sent from heaven as a brand new human male seed and not tainted by Adam's failure and sin.

This is why in John 8:24, Jesus goes on to say, "for unless you believe that I am from above and not of this world" you will die in your sins, and which simply meant that he was the Messiah that God would send to die for the sins of all men and as Isaiah 53 and Psalm 22 states.

Same argument as in my other replies.



Sorry but in John 8:56-58, Jesus was speaking about himself in a vision that Abraham received and by which he saw the day when Jesus would come and walk among the Jewish people his descendants and Jesus never moved from speaking about that vision, for the vision went back further than Abraham and in fact the first prophecy of his coming was in Genesis 3:15.


So what Jesus was speaking of, is the same thing that Paul wrote about in Romans 8:29, that Jesus was the firstborn in God's plan and predestination and in his foreknowledge and also the very image that all other saints would one day be conformed to as well.

Sorry but there is no scriptures that say "Jesus created all things" anywhere in the scriptures but only that "God created all things through and in him".

This simply means that in God created all things through his foreknowledge of Jesus and what he would do on the cross by his death and it was the only reason why God created anything that he did knowing that it would be ruined by sin, for Jesus would be the remedy to make it all worth creating.

For Jesus was the hope through and in which he went ahead and created all things knowing that it would be corrupted by sin and without which hope, God wouldn't have created any of it at all period.
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Jesus is My Lord and my GOD.👍
 

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

The words "I am" are in the first person present tense, and all that Jesus was truly saying here, is that he existed that day in their presence in the present tense in accordance with God's predestined plan and vision before Abraham was in his time.

He never moved from speaking of the vision that Abraham was given and which vision went back with God before the world was and which Peter and Paul spoke of also below.

1 Peter 1:20 "Who truly was foreknown "prognosis" before the foundation of the world but was in these last days manifested for you"

Romans 8:29, "For those whom he foreknew, them he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his (human) Son, that he might be the firstborn among many (human) brethren.

It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to be able to see by these passages above, that if the saints were predestined to be conformed to the image of Jesus as a flesh and blood Son of God and which it is clear that Paul is speaking of him as, that Jesus had to be the first to be predestined so that the others could be conformed to his image.

However, these are Spirit truths that must be taught by the Spirit and cannot be learned or taught by human academic methods and which is what your churches have fallen away from God by doing.


1 Corinthians 2:
13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words. 14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. 15 The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments, 16 for,

“Who has known the mind of the Lord
so as to instruct him?”
But we have the mind of Christ.


Notice, Paul very clearly tells us that Spiritual realities can only be understood through words taught by the Spirit.


This is where the church fell into the apostasy that they are now still walking in, for they began to replace the teaching of the Spirit with the teaching of human wisdom and reasoning and with human intellectualism.


Jesus is My Lord and my GOD.👍

Sorry but if Jesus remains your God up until your death or his return in the clouds, you will not have eternal life, because it was Jesus himself that told us in John 17:3 that we must know the Father as The Only True God and I don't care what kind of manipulation your buddy did with this verse, there is no way out of this, for it clearly what Jesus said period.

There is no way around this, for the words "The Only True God" make up and adjective phrase and Jesus applied it only to the Father and that word "monos" or "only" in that adjective phrase eliminates any one else from being God except for the Father alone and period and that includes Jesus.

So either you have to believe that Jesus made a mistake in saying this, or you have to admit that you are interpreting your other verses like John 1:1 and 1:14 incorrectly, those are your only choices, so you best give this some serious thought and forget about your religious experience.

For religious experiences are not a barometer for the truth of God's word and neither can the save you either and any experiences that look like they are coming from God can easily also be counterfeits of the Devil.

I am saying this because I was also influenced by them when I was a trin but you must forget them and seek and ask God to deliver you from Mystery Babylon that you have fallen a prey unto, otherwise you will also receive of her plaques with all the others who will not turn from her and receive the truth, see Revelation 18:4.

So it isn't just a matter of grace alone that saves us but it is grace and truth and just like the Bible teaches, for grace will not save you if you are believing falsely while trusting to be saved by grace and I don't care how many feelings the Devil counterfeit to keep you hooked on it all.
 

Tanachreader

Well-known member
The words "I am" are in the first person present tense, and all that Jesus was truly saying here, is that he existed that day in their presence in the present tense in accordance with God's predestined plan and vision before Abraham was in his time.

He never moved from speaking of the vision that Abraham was given and which vision went back with God before the world was and which Peter and Paul spoke of also below.

1 Peter 1:20 "Who truly was foreknown "prognosis" before the foundation of the world but was in these last days manifested for you"

Romans 8:29, "For those whom he foreknew, them he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his (human) Son, that he might be the firstborn among many (human) brethren.

It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to be able to see by these passages above, that if the saints were predestined to be conformed to the image of Jesus as a flesh and blood Son of God and which it is clear that Paul is speaking of him as, that Jesus had to be the first to be predestined so that the others could be conformed to his image.

However, these are Spirit truths that must be taught by the Spirit and cannot be learned or taught by human academic methods and which is what your churches have fallen away from God by doing.


1 Corinthians 2:
13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words. 14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. 15 The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments, 16 for,

“Who has known the mind of the Lord
so as to instruct him?”
But we have the mind of Christ.


Notice, Paul very clearly tells us that Spiritual realities can only be understood through words taught by the Spirit.


This is where the church fell into the apostasy that they are now still walking in, for they began to replace the teaching of the Spirit with the teaching of human wisdom and reasoning and with human intellectualism.




Sorry but if Jesus remains your God up until your death or his return in the clouds, you will not have eternal life, because it was Jesus himself that told us in John 17:3 that we must know the Father as The Only True God and I don't care what kind of manipulation your buddy did with this verse, there is no way out of this, for it clearly what Jesus said period.

There is no way around this, for the words "The Only True God" make up and adjective phrase and Jesus applied it only to the Father and that word "monos" or "only" in that adjective phrase eliminates any one else from being God except for the Father alone and period and that includes Jesus.

So either you have to believe that Jesus made a mistake in saying this, or you have to admit that you are interpreting your other verses like John 1:1 and 1:14 incorrectly, those are your only choices, so you best give this some serious thought and forget about your religious experience.

For religious experiences are not a barometer for the truth of God's word and neither can the save you either and any experiences that look like they are coming from God can easily also be counterfeits of the Devil.

I am saying this because I was also influenced by them when I was a trin but you must forget them and seek and ask God to deliver you from Mystery Babylon that you have fallen a prey unto, otherwise you will also receive of her plaques with all the others who will not turn from her and receive the truth, see Revelation 18:4.

So it isn't just a matter of grace alone that saves us but it is grace and truth and just like the Bible teaches, for grace will not save you if you are believing falsely while trusting to be saved by grace and I don't care how many feelings the Devil counterfeit to keep you hooked on it all.
Well your antiChrist a deceiver.
I have been Baptized with the Holy Spirit, and with fire and know and love the Father, His Son and the Holy Spirit.
They are very close me and my wife.
Their are lovely people on this site that hold to the truth not you.
Condemn me by you is a joke.
 

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
Well your antiChrist a deceiver.
I have been Baptized with the Holy Spirit, and with fire and know and love the Father, His Son and the Holy Spirit.
They are very close me and my wife.
Their are lovely people on this site that hold to the truth not you.
Condemn me by you is a joke.
Hey dude, I was a trinitarian for better than 30 years and was in church nearly every time the doors were open and I have also been around many of those so called lovely people and I have also seen the selfish cliques that run in.

The problem with this, is that the real love of God never looks for something in others that is going to make us feel wonderful about ourselves for being their friend and that is the kind of love that I have seen in the churches and it actually reminded me of the same cliques I saw when I was in school also and it is the same kind of love that the world has.

This is the kind of love that as long as someone makes them feel good to be around them or they have something to benefit from by having a relationship with them, they will have close fellowship with them and that is very shallow and not at all any different than what the world has to offer.

I remember one incident when I was teaching the singles, that there was this brother and he was having some emotional struggles that caused him to want to be on his own and not to be in church or around other people and I tried to help the singles see that they needed to reach out to this man as a group and express their love to him but none of them ever did.

I spoke to one of them and he said, I am just not feeling it and I didn't push him on this but my goodness, where does it tell us in the scriptures that we always have to feel like doing what is right, and if you told your pastor that you didn't feel like paying your tithe, I will bet he would give you a lecture on that and tithing isn't even a NT teaching at all but loving and reaching out to a hurting brother is.

Needless to say, that man was never seen in the group again, I went and ministered unto him many times, but he really needed to see the love of the those who he used to fellowship with as a group and not just me or one person out of the group, what a shame!


By the way, it was like this in every single trinitarian church I ever attended or visited also.
 
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rossh

Well-known member
" I never read fiction in a religious website debating room.." Thank you for admitting that none of your posts are worth reading, You are nothing but a dogmatist who refuses to meaningfully interact with anyone. Whenever you get serious, have at it. Until then farewell.

God Bless
Look who is talking ? You have never made any statement which is anywhere relevant to Scripture, you simply use suppositions that suit you hatred of God and all who are true believers!! Why do you think that debating here is a One Way St for non believers ?
 

rossh

Well-known member
" I never read fiction in a religious website debating room.." Thank you for admitting that none of your posts are worth reading, You are nothing but a dogmatist who refuses to meaningfully interact with anyone. Whenever you get serious, have at it. Until then farewell.

God Bless
There is really nothing to debate concerning the Scripture/s. One either truly believes Gods Word or not.. Regardless of what you think I post you still cannot help argue by irrelevant and bad looser replies... ? If having the " last word " make you the " winner " well that says a lot, go for it!! God Bless..
 

DoctrinesofGraceBapt

Well-known member
Look who is talking ? You have never made any statement which is anywhere relevant to Scripture, you simply use suppositions that suit you hatred of God and all who are true believers!! Why do you think that debating here is a One Way St for non believers?

The words of one who needs that last word. How would you know I never made any statement which is anywhere relevant to Scripture? Oh yeah, your hubris won't allow you to believe otherwise so you assert what you cannot know as to pretend such is meaningful. If you believe I simply use suppositions that suit my hatred of God and all who are true believers, then you should point them out. After all, Christians "destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God", cf 2 Corinthians 10:5. Are you admitting that you are not a Christian, or are you just acting like this to hid from the reality that your opinions can't stand in the light of Scripture?

Who said I think that debating here is a One Way St for non believers? Maybe, you should listen more and assume less.


There is really nothing to debate concerning the Scripture/s. One either truly believes Gods Word or not..

Category error. We are not arguing the authority of Scripture. Why are you talking about the authority of Scripture in a discussion of what Scripture teaches on various topics among those who already agree on Scripture's authority. We are using Scripture to correct the errors of men. You are currently using hubris to hid your dogma from Biblical critique. You are literally painting yourself as the one who doesn't trust God and God's word at all. If you were confident, you would be open to the critique because it's more important to be correct than to think you are right. You would also realize these discussions would allow you to destory our arguments. If you truly believed these discussions would not be fruitful, then why are you wasting your time here? If you just think a discussion with me wouldn't be fruitful, you could have simply said I don't think this discussion is worth my time. That's how one can end a discussion like this while saving face. Frankly, I'm always shocked when people kill conversations like this; don't they realize the mud they are smearing all over their position?

Regardless of what you think I post you still cannot help argue by irrelevant and bad looser replies... ? If having the " last word " make you the " winner " well that says a lot, go for it!! God Bless..

"argue by irrelevant and bad looser replies..." The response of one who can't stand the scrutiny of Scripture. Do Christians "destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God", or do they "repay evil with evil or insult with insult"? Just wondering?

FYI, I'm not trying to have the last word, I'm trying to force you to act like the Christian you claim to be. I've even gave you a way to end the conversation as a Christian would if they believed a discussion would be unproductive.

PS, I do find these responses funny in light of Scripture. How often in Scripture do you see Christ or a Christian say something like I never consider fiction in a religious debate? Or, say you make irrelevant and bad looser replies? Paul talked to pagans, and the pagans were the ones who left condemning Paul as the one who was crazy. The same thing constantly occurred with Jesus in his talk with the Jews. The Jews were always walking away in hatred. Well, if it happened to Jesus, should I expect any difference in my life?


God Bless
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
Hey dude, I was a trinitarian for better than 30 years and was in church nearly every time the doors were open and I have also been around many of those so called lovely people and I have also seen the selfish cliques that run in.

The problem with this, is that the real love of God never looks for something in others that is going to make us feel wonderful about ourselves for being their friend and that is the kind of love that I have seen in the churches and it actually reminded me of the same cliques I saw when I was in school also and it is the same kind of love that the world has.

This is the kind of love that as long as someone makes them feel good to be around them or they have something to benefit from by having a relationship with them, they will have close fellowship with them and that is very shallow and not at all any different than what the world has to offer.

I remember one incident when I was teaching the singles, that there was this brother and he was having some emotional struggles that caused him to want to be on his own and not to be in church or around other people and I tried to help the singles see that they needed to reach out to this man as a group and express their love to him but none of them ever did.

I spoke to one of them and he said, I am just not feeling it and I didn't push him on this but my goodness, where does it tell us in the scriptures that we always have to feel like doing what is right, and if you told your pastor that you didn't feel like paying your tithe, I will bet he would give you a lecture on that and tithing isn't even a NT teaching at all but loving and reaching out to a hurting brother is.

Needless to say, that man was never seen in the group again, I went and ministered unto him many times, but he really needed to see the love of the those who he used to fellowship with as a group and not just me or one person out of the group, what a shame!


By the way, it was like this in every single trinitarian church I ever attended or visited also.

You will know them by their fruits. They always seek to please their own fleshly desires in one way or another. They also suppose no one will notice but the true children of God do notice.

"If anyone wishes to come after me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow me."

Few are willing and many pretend. And they only pretend for the approval of men rather than God.
 

Tanachreader

Well-known member
You will know them by their fruits. They always seek to please their own fleshly desires in one way or another. They also suppose no one will notice but the true children of God do notice.

"If anyone wishes to come after me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow me."

Few are willing and many pretend. And they only pretend for the approval of men rather than God.
So you have done what Jesus said?
 
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