Did Jesus teach he was GOD himself?

johnny guitar

Well-known member
I agree !!!

But to clarify our views...

The Word was "God" mentioned in Genesis 1:3. TRUE or FALSE?

Genesis 1:3... And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

I say TRUE.

Since some Trinitarians say "God" in Genesis 1:3 refers to the one Person "God the Father" and "The Word is NOT God the Father", I am interested to see what YOU say.
True.
And.......................
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
Yes it is in those scriptures that I quoted because Acts 5:3-4 says they lied to the Holy Spirit ( not the Father or Son )! In Heb.1:8 the Father calls His Only Begotten Son " O God "! John 1:1 says the WORD ( Precarnate Jesus Christ ) " Was God " and He " was with God " ( the Father & Holy Spirit! So don't tell me that the Holy Spirit was NOT present in the beginning with the Word and Father in John 1:1! Also sine we humans are created in GOD's ( TRINITY ) triune image we do indeed have 3 human PARTS called a BODY, SOUL, & SPIRIT in 1 Thess.5:23 ------------------------------------
In every instance, you are misrepresenting the scripture...Acts 5:3-4 says they lied to the Holy Spirit...They were speaking to men who were filled with the HS. The HS is the spirit of God...Not another God. Heb 1:8 the writer is quoting the Psalms ...the word in the Psalms is Elohim not YHWH. Please know the difference.

1 Thessalonians 5:23​

New International Version​

23 May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Already explained... the body and spirit make a soul...It is there for you to read in Genesis.
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
In every instance, you are misrepresenting the scripture...Acts 5:3-4 says they lied to the Holy Spirit...They were speaking to men who were filled with the HS. The HS is the spirit of God...Not another God. Heb 1:8 the writer is quoting the Psalms ...the word in the Psalms is Elohim not YHWH. Please know the difference.

Already explained... the body and spirit make a soul...It is there for you to read in Genesis.
They lied to God The Holy Spirit.
And The Father addressed His Son as God.
Case closed.
 

rod.ney

Well-known member
Sorry but when John spoke of God as the Logos, he wasn't speaking of another person of God's nature but only as God personified in his thinking and reasoning and through which he created all things and even Tertullian understood this about what John was saying, although being in the lfesh and not the Spirit, he still twisted the truth about it.

Here is his very words about it below.



Tertullian Against Praxeas Chapter V.—The Evolution of the Son or Word of God from the Father by a Divine Procession. Illustrated by the Operation of the Human Thought and Consciousness.

But since they will have the Two to be but One, so that the Father shall be deemed to be the same as the Son, it is only right that the whole question respecting the Son should be examined, as to whether He exists, and who He is and the mode of His existence. Thus shall the truth itself7803 secure its own sanction7804 from the Scriptures, and the interpretations which guard7805 them. There are some who allege that even Genesis opens thus in Hebrew: “In the beginning God made for Himself a Son.”7806 As there is no ground for this, I am led to other arguments derived from God’s own dispensation,7807 in which He existed before the creation of the world, up to the generation of the Son. For before all things God was alone—being in Himself and for Himself universe, and space, and all things. Moreover, He was alone, because there was nothing external to Him but Himself. Yet even not then was He alone; for He had with Him that which He possessed in Himself, that is to say, His own Reason. For God is rational, and Reason was first in Him; and so all things were from Himself. This Reason is His own Thought (or Consciousness)7808 which the Greeks call λόγος, by which term we also designate Word or Discourse7809 and therefore it is now usual with our people, owing to the mere simple interpretation of the term, to say that the Word7810 was in the beginning with God; although it would be more suitable to regard Reason as the more ancient; because God had not Word7811 from the beginning, but He had Reason7812 even before the beginning; because also Word itself consists of Reason, which it thus proves to have been the prior existence as being its own substance.7813 Not that this distinction is of any practical moment. For although God had not yet sent out His Word,7814 He still had Him within Himself, both in company with and included within His very Reason, as He silently planned and arranged within Himself everything which He was afterwards about to utter7815 through His Word. Now, whilst He was thus planning and arranging with His own Reason, He was actually causing that to become Word which He was dealing with in the way of Word or Discourse.7816 And that you may the more readily understand this, consider first of all, from your own self, who are made “in the image and likeness of God,”7817 for what purpose it is that you also possess reason in yourself, who are a rational creature, as being not only made by a rational Artificer, but actually animated out of His substance. Observe, then, that when you are silently con601versing with yourself, this very process is carried on within you by your reason, which meets you with a word at every movement of your thought, at every impulse of your conception. Whatever you think, there is a word; whatever you conceive, there is reason. You must needs speak it in your mind; and while you are speaking, you admit speech as an interlocutor with you, involved in which there is this very reason, whereby, while in thought you are holding converse with your word, you are (by reciprocal action) producing thought by means of that converse with your word. Thus, in a certain sense, the word is a second person within you, through which in thinking you utter speech, and through which also, (by reciprocity of process,) in uttering speech you generate thought. The word is itself a different thing from yourself. Now how much more fully is all this transacted in God, whose image and likeness even you are regarded as being, inasmuch as He has reason within Himself even while He is silent, and involved in that Reason His Word! I may therefore without rashness first lay this down (as a fixed principle) that even then before the creation of the universe God was not alone, since He had within Himself both Reason, and, inherent in Reason, His Word, which He made second to Himself by agitating it within Himself.

Too bad he wasn't being led by the discernment of the Holy Spirit but instead by his own carnal human reasoning and this is made clear when he said that we who are made in God's image also have another person within us like God does, how foolish!

This is what will always happen when man's carnal human reasoning gets involved in attempting to understand the truths of God's inspired word in the scriptures and if you can't see all of the human reasoning he is doing in the above, I certainly don't know why you can't, because it is quite obvious.
Sorry but that is just another man who rejects what the scriptures CLEARLY state in John 1:1 & Heb.1:8! " the WORD was God " and the Father calls Him " O God "! Case closed as Jesus Himself said ( in John 8:58 ) He was " I AM " ( God the WORD ) who spoke to Moses as a burning bush in Exodus 3:14! Then the Fact that ALL things were Made/Created Through/By Him as per John 1:3/Col.1:16! All scriptures ( AS IS ) and NOT some Fallible person's TWISTED comment on it ( 2 Peter 3:16 ), like you posted! Therefore the former HWA response remains 100% rebuked as per 2 Tim.3:16!
 

rod.ney

Well-known member
In every instance, you are misrepresenting the scripture...Acts 5:3-4 says they lied to the Holy Spirit...They were speaking to men who were filled with the HS. The HS is the spirit of God...Not another God. Heb 1:8 the writer is quoting the Psalms ...the word in the Psalms is Elohim not YHWH. Please know the difference.

Already explained... the body and spirit make a soul...It is there for you to read in Genesis.
WRONG, Already Twisted ( 2 Peter 3:16 ) by you in your explanation! Case closed!
 

rod.ney

Well-known member
The biggest blunder with using our being made in the image of God in body, soul and spirit, as a good analogy of the trinity, is the fact that when God made man he was totally Spirit and didn't have a body at all.
God is outside of time and the WORD of John 1:1 does have a body in verse 14!
 

rod.ney

Well-known member
Sorry but John 1:1-3 that was written by John who was taught by Jesus, doesn't remove what Jesus himself clearly said in John 17:3 and neither does the fact that you are confused about John 1:1-3 make what you are saying about it correct either, for no matter how you might argue about it, your doctrine on John 1:1-3 contradicts Jesus' words in John 17:3 complete.

Therefore your doctrine about John 1:1-3 is false.
Well Here's 1 John 5:20 that Civic posted -----------------
Daniel Wallace on 1 John 5:20- Jesus is the True God
ουτος
, in the Gospel and Epistles of John seems to be used in a theologically rich manner.30 Specifically, of the approximately seventy instances in which ουτος has a personal referent, as many as forty- four of them (almost two-thirds of the instances) refer to the Son. Of the remainder, most imply some sort of positive connection with the Son.31 What is most significant is that never is the Father the referent ------------------------------

1 John 5:20
New International Version

20 We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true by being in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.
-
 

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
God is outside of time and the WORD of John 1:1 does have a body in verse 14!
I agree that God in his infinite dimension of existence is outside of time and that is also why he knows the end from the beginning as per Isaiah 46:9-10 and also why he as Paul said in Romans 4 "calls those things that be not as though they already were", also.

Therefore, one could just as easily say that in Genesis 1:26, God was actually speaking to Jesus through Adam and through Eve and through all of Adam's descendants right down to Mary and through Mary to Jesus and being God's infinite dimension of existence is outside of time.

Here is some proof of this also from Paul in Romans 8:29 below.

Romans 8:29, "For those who he foreknew, those he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his (human) Son, that he might be the firstborn among many (human) brethren".

Colossians 1:15 is also proof of this as well, for Paul is actually calling Jesus "the firstborn image of the invisible God of all creation" and just like he also reveals in Romans 8:29 and even though Jesus did not come first in the order of time, he was still the firstborn with God and just like Jacob and others were who weren't born first in time either.

Thus in
Genesis 1:26 when God said, "Let us make man in our image", God was speaking this through Adam's descendants and through time unto Jesus and therefore it is not proof that God was speaking to another person of his being as though he were a trinity and which is never taught in the Bible anyhow.


I personally believe that God is omnipresent in all created time and space and therefore he was at the end simultaneous with the beginning and this is one of the reasons why he proclaims the end from the beginning also.

You could say therefore, that our finite existence and experience in creation is far behind that of God's and therefore what is only beginning to happen for us, is as though it already happened in the dimension of God's eternal infinite existence and experience and there are hints of this in the Bible also.
 

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
Sorry but that is just another man who rejects what the scriptures CLEARLY state in John 1:1 & Heb.1:8! " the WORD was God " and the Father calls Him " O God "! Case closed as Jesus Himself said ( in John 8:58 ) He was " I AM " ( God the WORD ) who spoke to Moses as a burning bush in Exodus 3:14! Then the Fact that ALL things were Made/Created Through/By Him as per John 1:3/Col.1:16! All scriptures ( AS IS ) and NOT some Fallible person's TWISTED comment on it ( 2 Peter 3:16 ), like you posted! Therefore the former HWA response remains 100% rebuked as per 2 Tim.3:16!
He was the very man that began the formulation of your false doctrine of the trinity and just like History reveals about him and that is why most trins won't even comment on this, for I did a post on it and none of them wanted to touch it and that is because they realize it is what he said.

They also understand that Tertullian knew what the Greek words "Logos and pros" really meant in John's prologue and that he also understood what John really meant when he said "And the Logos was "pros" The God" as well and which really proves that he also went south when he still took John to be referring to another literal person of God.
 

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
Well Here's 1 John 5:20 that Civic posted -----------------
Daniel Wallace on 1 John 5:20- Jesus is the True God
ουτος
, in the Gospel and Epistles of John seems to be used in a theologically rich manner.30 Specifically, of the approximately seventy instances in which ουτος has a personal referent, as many as forty- four of them (almost two-thirds of the instances) refer to the Son. Of the remainder, most imply some sort of positive connection with the Son.31 What is most significant is that never is the Father the referent ------------------------------

1 John 5:20​

New International Version​

20 We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true by being in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.
-
Sorry but but that is complete nonsense and if interpreted like you are interpreting it, you have John contradicting his own teacher in John 17:3 where Jesus made it clear that the Father as The Only True God and himself as the Christ whom he sent" is the eternal life of the believer, for that is actually what 1 John 5:20 says as well.

Here let's examine it again.


1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.


Notice first, John is making a clear distinction from the true God and his his Son who came to give us an understanding of the true God and in order that we might now him who is true and which is obviously the Father.


Then what he is saying after this, is that we are in the True God by being in his Son and again we see this distinction between the one being called The True God and his Son and John never reveals the Son here as also be the true God, never!

So when he finished by saying "This is the True God and eternal life" he simply means that it is both the True God (The Father) and Jesus his Son whom he sent that is the eternal life of the believer and just like Jesus who taught John says in John 17:3 also.


Sorry, but in how you are twisting 1 John 5:20 to be meaning, you have John who was the disciples of Jesus and taught by Jesus, contradicting Jesus' very clear words in John 17:3 and which reveals that your doctrine is false also.

What is really amazing to me, is how trins will go to college to learn Greek and Hebrew grammars but then when they read the clear and simple grammar of Jesus in John 17:3 and also that of 1 John 5:20, they totally reject it for their preconceived personal bias that Jesus is God and that God is a trinity.

This is why I wouldn't trust their academic knowledge if my life depended upon it, for they can't even be honest about what Jesus clearly said in John 17:3 at all neither can they be honest with 1 John 5:20 either, for neither passage includes Jesus as being the true God but both reveal that it is the True God and his Son who he sent alone, through which the believer has eternal life.
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
Sorry but but that is complete nonsense and if interpreted like you are interpreting it, you have John contradicting his own teacher in John 17:3 where Jesus made it clear that the Father as The Only True God and himself as the Christ whom he sent" is the eternal life of the believer, for that is actually what 1 John 5:20 says as well.

Here let's examine it again.


1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.


Notice first, John is making a clear distinction from the true God and his his Son who came to give us an understanding of the true God and in order that we might now him who is true and which is obviously the Father.


Then what he is saying after this, is that we are in the True God by being in his Son and again we see this distinction between the one being called The True God and his Son and John never reveals the Son here as also be the true God, never!

So when he finished by saying "This is the True God and eternal life" he simply means that it is both the True God (The Father) and Jesus his Son whom he sent that is the eternal life of the believer and just like Jesus who taught John says in John 17:3 also.


Sorry, but in how you are twisting 1 John 5:20 to be meaning, you have John who was the disciples of Jesus and taught by Jesus, contradicting Jesus' very clear words in John 17:3 and which reveals that your doctrine is false also.

What is really amazing to me, is how trins will go to college to learn Greek and Hebrew grammars but then when they read the clear and simple grammar of Jesus in John 17:3 and also that of 1 John 5:20, they totally reject it for their preconceived personal bias that Jesus is God and that God is a trinity.

This is why I wouldn't trust their academic knowledge if my life depended upon it, for they can't even be honest about what Jesus clearly said in John 17:3 at all neither can they be honest with 1 John 5:20 either, for neither passage includes Jesus as being the true God but both reveal that it is the True God and his Son who he sent alone, through which the believer has eternal life.
We are IN The Son. Jesus Christ. This(Jesus Christ)is the True God.
Case closed.
 

rod.ney

Well-known member
Sorry but but that is complete nonsense and if interpreted like you are interpreting it, you have John contradicting his own teacher in John 17:3 where Jesus made it clear that the Father as The Only True God and himself as the Christ whom he sent" is the eternal life of the believer, for that is actually what 1 John 5:20 says as well.

Here let's examine it again.


1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.


Notice first, John is making a clear distinction from the true God and his his Son who came to give us an understanding of the true God and in order that we might now him who is true and which is obviously the Father.


Then what he is saying after this, is that we are in the True God by being in his Son and again we see this distinction between the one being called The True God and his Son and John never reveals the Son here as also be the true God, never!

So when he finished by saying "This is the True God and eternal life" he simply means that it is both the True God (The Father) and Jesus his Son whom he sent that is the eternal life of the believer and just like Jesus who taught John says in John 17:3 also.


Sorry, but in how you are twisting 1 John 5:20 to be meaning, you have John who was the disciples of Jesus and taught by Jesus, contradicting Jesus' very clear words in John 17:3 and which reveals that your doctrine is false also.

What is really amazing to me, is how trins will go to college to learn Greek and Hebrew grammars but then when they read the clear and simple grammar of Jesus in John 17:3 and also that of 1 John 5:20, they totally reject it for their preconceived personal bias that Jesus is God and that God is a trinity.

This is why I wouldn't trust their academic knowledge if my life depended upon it, for they can't even be honest about what Jesus clearly said in John 17:3 at all neither can they be honest with 1 John 5:20 either, for neither passage includes Jesus as being the true God but both reveal that it is the True God and his Son who he sent alone, through which the believer has eternal life.
Well your life ( HWA ) is NOT a born again one since you have NOT accepted the Real Jesus Christ ( God-Man as per John 1:1+14 ) as your Lord & Savior! Satan has done a good job in deceiving you! The True GOD is a TRINITY ( FSHS )! Thus John 17:3 & 1 John 5:20 do NOT contradict one another because each Divine Person of the True GOD is a true God and that is EXACLY why God the Father calls His Son ( Jesus Christ ) " O God " in Heb.1:8, just after all His created angels WORSHIPED Him ( Jesus Christ ) in Heb.1:6! Angels will NEVER Worship anyone other than God! Case closed!
 

rod.ney

Well-known member
He was the very man that began the formulation of your false doctrine of the trinity and just like History reveals about him and that is why most trins won't even comment on this, for I did a post on it and none of them wanted to touch it and that is because they realize it is what he said.

They also understand that Tertullian knew what the Greek words "Logos and pros" really meant in John's prologue and that he also understood what John really meant when he said "And the Logos was "pros" The God" as well and which really proves that he also went south when he still took John to be referring to another literal person of God.
Nope, what I CORRECTLY Posted CLEARLY rebukes ( 2 Tim.3:16 ) your Twisted ( 2 Peter 3:16 ) doctrines! Case closed!
 
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