Did Jesus teach he was GOD himself?

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
God is outside of time and the WORD of John 1:1 does have a body in verse 14!
I agree that God in his infinite dimension of existence is outside of time and that is also why he knows the end from the beginning as per Isaiah 46:9-10 and also why he as Paul said in Romans 4 "calls those things that be not as though they already were", also.

Therefore, one could just as easily say that in Genesis 1:26, God was actually speaking to Jesus through Adam and through Eve and through all of Adam's descendants right down to Mary and through Mary to Jesus and being God's infinite dimension of existence is outside of time.

Here is some proof of this also from Paul in Romans 8:29 below.

Romans 8:29, "For those who he foreknew, those he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his (human) Son, that he might be the firstborn among many (human) brethren".

Colossians 1:15 is also proof of this as well, for Paul is actually calling Jesus "the firstborn image of the invisible God of all creation" and just like he also reveals in Romans 8:29 and even though Jesus did not come first in the order of time, he was still the firstborn with God and just like Jacob and others were who weren't born first in time either.

Thus in
Genesis 1:26 when God said, "Let us make man in our image", God was speaking this through Adam's descendants and through time unto Jesus and therefore it is not proof that God was speaking to another person of his being as though he were a trinity and which is never taught in the Bible anyhow.


I personally believe that God is omnipresent in all created time and space and therefore he was at the end simultaneous with the beginning and this is one of the reasons why he proclaims the end from the beginning also.

You could say therefore, that our finite existence and experience in creation is far behind that of God's and therefore what is only beginning to happen for us, is as though it already happened in the dimension of God's eternal infinite existence and experience and there are hints of this in the Bible also.
 

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
Sorry but that is just another man who rejects what the scriptures CLEARLY state in John 1:1 & Heb.1:8! " the WORD was God " and the Father calls Him " O God "! Case closed as Jesus Himself said ( in John 8:58 ) He was " I AM " ( God the WORD ) who spoke to Moses as a burning bush in Exodus 3:14! Then the Fact that ALL things were Made/Created Through/By Him as per John 1:3/Col.1:16! All scriptures ( AS IS ) and NOT some Fallible person's TWISTED comment on it ( 2 Peter 3:16 ), like you posted! Therefore the former HWA response remains 100% rebuked as per 2 Tim.3:16!
He was the very man that began the formulation of your false doctrine of the trinity and just like History reveals about him and that is why most trins won't even comment on this, for I did a post on it and none of them wanted to touch it and that is because they realize it is what he said.

They also understand that Tertullian knew what the Greek words "Logos and pros" really meant in John's prologue and that he also understood what John really meant when he said "And the Logos was "pros" The God" as well and which really proves that he also went south when he still took John to be referring to another literal person of God.
 

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
Well Here's 1 John 5:20 that Civic posted -----------------
Daniel Wallace on 1 John 5:20- Jesus is the True God
ουτος
, in the Gospel and Epistles of John seems to be used in a theologically rich manner.30 Specifically, of the approximately seventy instances in which ουτος has a personal referent, as many as forty- four of them (almost two-thirds of the instances) refer to the Son. Of the remainder, most imply some sort of positive connection with the Son.31 What is most significant is that never is the Father the referent ------------------------------

1 John 5:20​

New International Version​

20 We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true by being in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.
-
Sorry but but that is complete nonsense and if interpreted like you are interpreting it, you have John contradicting his own teacher in John 17:3 where Jesus made it clear that the Father as The Only True God and himself as the Christ whom he sent" is the eternal life of the believer, for that is actually what 1 John 5:20 says as well.

Here let's examine it again.


1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.


Notice first, John is making a clear distinction from the true God and his his Son who came to give us an understanding of the true God and in order that we might now him who is true and which is obviously the Father.


Then what he is saying after this, is that we are in the True God by being in his Son and again we see this distinction between the one being called The True God and his Son and John never reveals the Son here as also be the true God, never!

So when he finished by saying "This is the True God and eternal life" he simply means that it is both the True God (The Father) and Jesus his Son whom he sent that is the eternal life of the believer and just like Jesus who taught John says in John 17:3 also.


Sorry, but in how you are twisting 1 John 5:20 to be meaning, you have John who was the disciples of Jesus and taught by Jesus, contradicting Jesus' very clear words in John 17:3 and which reveals that your doctrine is false also.

What is really amazing to me, is how trins will go to college to learn Greek and Hebrew grammars but then when they read the clear and simple grammar of Jesus in John 17:3 and also that of 1 John 5:20, they totally reject it for their preconceived personal bias that Jesus is God and that God is a trinity.

This is why I wouldn't trust their academic knowledge if my life depended upon it, for they can't even be honest about what Jesus clearly said in John 17:3 at all neither can they be honest with 1 John 5:20 either, for neither passage includes Jesus as being the true God but both reveal that it is the True God and his Son who he sent alone, through which the believer has eternal life.
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
Sorry but but that is complete nonsense and if interpreted like you are interpreting it, you have John contradicting his own teacher in John 17:3 where Jesus made it clear that the Father as The Only True God and himself as the Christ whom he sent" is the eternal life of the believer, for that is actually what 1 John 5:20 says as well.

Here let's examine it again.


1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.


Notice first, John is making a clear distinction from the true God and his his Son who came to give us an understanding of the true God and in order that we might now him who is true and which is obviously the Father.


Then what he is saying after this, is that we are in the True God by being in his Son and again we see this distinction between the one being called The True God and his Son and John never reveals the Son here as also be the true God, never!

So when he finished by saying "This is the True God and eternal life" he simply means that it is both the True God (The Father) and Jesus his Son whom he sent that is the eternal life of the believer and just like Jesus who taught John says in John 17:3 also.


Sorry, but in how you are twisting 1 John 5:20 to be meaning, you have John who was the disciples of Jesus and taught by Jesus, contradicting Jesus' very clear words in John 17:3 and which reveals that your doctrine is false also.

What is really amazing to me, is how trins will go to college to learn Greek and Hebrew grammars but then when they read the clear and simple grammar of Jesus in John 17:3 and also that of 1 John 5:20, they totally reject it for their preconceived personal bias that Jesus is God and that God is a trinity.

This is why I wouldn't trust their academic knowledge if my life depended upon it, for they can't even be honest about what Jesus clearly said in John 17:3 at all neither can they be honest with 1 John 5:20 either, for neither passage includes Jesus as being the true God but both reveal that it is the True God and his Son who he sent alone, through which the believer has eternal life.
We are IN The Son. Jesus Christ. This(Jesus Christ)is the True God.
Case closed.
 

rod.ney

Well-known member
Sorry but but that is complete nonsense and if interpreted like you are interpreting it, you have John contradicting his own teacher in John 17:3 where Jesus made it clear that the Father as The Only True God and himself as the Christ whom he sent" is the eternal life of the believer, for that is actually what 1 John 5:20 says as well.

Here let's examine it again.


1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.


Notice first, John is making a clear distinction from the true God and his his Son who came to give us an understanding of the true God and in order that we might now him who is true and which is obviously the Father.


Then what he is saying after this, is that we are in the True God by being in his Son and again we see this distinction between the one being called The True God and his Son and John never reveals the Son here as also be the true God, never!

So when he finished by saying "This is the True God and eternal life" he simply means that it is both the True God (The Father) and Jesus his Son whom he sent that is the eternal life of the believer and just like Jesus who taught John says in John 17:3 also.


Sorry, but in how you are twisting 1 John 5:20 to be meaning, you have John who was the disciples of Jesus and taught by Jesus, contradicting Jesus' very clear words in John 17:3 and which reveals that your doctrine is false also.

What is really amazing to me, is how trins will go to college to learn Greek and Hebrew grammars but then when they read the clear and simple grammar of Jesus in John 17:3 and also that of 1 John 5:20, they totally reject it for their preconceived personal bias that Jesus is God and that God is a trinity.

This is why I wouldn't trust their academic knowledge if my life depended upon it, for they can't even be honest about what Jesus clearly said in John 17:3 at all neither can they be honest with 1 John 5:20 either, for neither passage includes Jesus as being the true God but both reveal that it is the True God and his Son who he sent alone, through which the believer has eternal life.
Well your life ( HWA ) is NOT a born again one since you have NOT accepted the Real Jesus Christ ( God-Man as per John 1:1+14 ) as your Lord & Savior! Satan has done a good job in deceiving you! The True GOD is a TRINITY ( FSHS )! Thus John 17:3 & 1 John 5:20 do NOT contradict one another because each Divine Person of the True GOD is a true God and that is EXACLY why God the Father calls His Son ( Jesus Christ ) " O God " in Heb.1:8, just after all His created angels WORSHIPED Him ( Jesus Christ ) in Heb.1:6! Angels will NEVER Worship anyone other than God! Case closed!
 

rod.ney

Well-known member
He was the very man that began the formulation of your false doctrine of the trinity and just like History reveals about him and that is why most trins won't even comment on this, for I did a post on it and none of them wanted to touch it and that is because they realize it is what he said.

They also understand that Tertullian knew what the Greek words "Logos and pros" really meant in John's prologue and that he also understood what John really meant when he said "And the Logos was "pros" The God" as well and which really proves that he also went south when he still took John to be referring to another literal person of God.
Nope, what I CORRECTLY Posted CLEARLY rebukes ( 2 Tim.3:16 ) your Twisted ( 2 Peter 3:16 ) doctrines! Case closed!
 

rod.ney

Well-known member
I agree that God in his infinite dimension of existence is outside of time and that is also why he knows the end from the beginning as per Isaiah 46:9-10 and also why he as Paul said in Romans 4 "calls those things that be not as though they already were", also.

Therefore, one could just as easily say that in Genesis 1:26, God was actually speaking to Jesus through Adam and through Eve and through all of Adam's descendants right down to Mary and through Mary to Jesus and being God's infinite dimension of existence is outside of time.

Here is some proof of this also from Paul in Romans 8:29 below.

Romans 8:29, "For those who he foreknew, those he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his (human) Son, that he might be the firstborn among many (human) brethren".

Colossians 1:15 is also proof of this as well, for Paul is actually calling Jesus "the firstborn image of the invisible God of all creation" and just like he also reveals in Romans 8:29 and even though Jesus did not come first in the order of time, he was still the firstborn with God and just like Jacob and others were who weren't born first in time either.

Thus in
Genesis 1:26 when God said, "Let us make man in our image", God was speaking this through Adam's descendants and through time unto Jesus and therefore it is not proof that God was speaking to another person of his being as though he were a trinity and which is never taught in the Bible anyhow.


I personally believe that God is omnipresent in all created time and space and therefore he was at the end simultaneous with the beginning and this is one of the reasons why he proclaims the end from the beginning also.

You could say therefore, that our finite existence and experience in creation is far behind that of God's and therefore what is only beginning to happen for us, is as though it already happened in the dimension of God's eternal infinite existence and experience and there are hints of this in the Bible also.
Jesus was NOT Created because ALL things were Created Through/By Him as per John 1:3/Col.1:16! The ONLY created part of Jesus was His FLESH in John 1:14! He " Was God " and " was with God " ( the Father & Holy Spirit ) in John 1:1 BEFORE He became incarnate ( God in the created Flesh ) in John 1:14! The JW's are the ones that Twist ( 2 Peter 3:16 ) John 1:3 by saying All things created AFTER He was created first! So are you a JW since you also think Jesus was created?! The scriptures ( John 1:3/Col.1:16 ) POINT Blank say AS IS that All things ( No exceptions ) were created Through/By Him! That CLEARLY means He eternally Existed as God ( the Word ) before He became God-Man in John 1:14! Only GOD ( TRINITY - FSHS ) pre-exists ALL Creation! Case closed!
 

rod.ney

Well-known member
That is the context er rod.ney... You affirm three Gods and deny three Gods in the same breath.
Argue that with the AS IS Posted scriptures that do in FACT call each of those 3 Divine Persons of Matt.28:19 ( FSHS ) " God " in John 1:1 ; Acts 5:3-4 & Heb.1:8! Case closed!
 

rod.ney

Well-known member
So you have a flesh God?
I have a TRIUNE GOD ( FSHS ) and the Son ( The Word in John 1:1 ) did in FACT become God in the Flesh in John 1:14! The Father & Holy Spirt do NOT have a Flesh Body like the Son has ( ever since the Incarnation of God the Word of John 1:1 in John 1:14 )! Case closed!
 
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rod.ney

Well-known member
That is what the unlearned say.
No, that is EXACTLY what GOD's inspired scriptures tells us ( AS IS ) in Acts 5:3-4 and Hebrews 1:8! So much for your WRONG say so ( man.s un-inspired word that Twists those AS IS Posted scriptures as per 2 Peter 3:16!
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
No, that is EXACTLY what GOD's inspired scriptures tells us ( AS IS ) in Acts 5:3-4 and Hebrews 1:8! So much for your WRONG say so ( man.s un-inspired word that Twists those AS IS Posted scriptures as per 2 Peter 3:16!
No mention of three Gods in the scripture, sir
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
I have a TRIUNE GOD ( FSHS ) and the Son ( The Word in John 1:1 ) did in FACT become God in the Flesh in John 1:14! The Father & Holy Spirt do NOT have a Flesh Body like the Son has ( ever since the Incarnation of God the Word of John 1:1 in John 1:14 )! Case closed!
you have three Gods...end of story...
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
Incorrect. He is both God (Acts 2:21) and man (Acts 2:22).
Bro Johnny said his God became a man...therefore you are saying Johnny is wrong.

21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

You are also wrong since the scripture says Jesus is a man and God approved him... If Jesus is a God and God approved him then you believe in multiple Gods
 
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