Did Jesus teach he was GOD himself?

Theo1689

Well-known member
No, johnny Jesus tells us his father is God, and you refuse to believe it.

Jesus tells us that his father is God.
AND...
AND...
AND...

The Bible tells us (repeatedly, and repeatedly, and repeatedly) that Jesus IS GOD.

They aren't mutually exclusive, any more than my being a "son of man" is mutually exclusive with me being a "man".
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
Jesus tells us that his father is God.
AND...
AND...
AND...
and, and, and you don't believe Jesus...
The Bible tells us (repeatedly, and repeatedly, and repeatedly) that Jesus IS GOD.
No, it does not, Jesus said He has a God, but you don't believe Jesus. Jesus repeatedly prayed to his God. Why would a God have a God that he prays to?
They aren't mutually exclusive, any more than my being a "son of man" is mutually exclusive with me being a "man".
Is it your contention that God is the son of man?
 

Tanachreader

Well-known member
and, and, and you don't believe Jesus...

No, it does not, Jesus said He has a God, but you don't believe Jesus. Jesus repeatedly prayed to his God. Why would a God have a God that he prays to?

Is it your contention that God is the son of man?
You don’t believe God.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
Jesus is GOD and Abraham knew HIM.
you are funny... If Jesus is God in this scenario why is he saying his honour is nothing...and he keeps the commands of his father? Abraham knew that God would send the messiah...
54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:

55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.

56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
 

Fred

Well-known member
Jesus tells us that his father is God.
AND...
AND...
AND...

The Bible tells us (repeatedly, and repeatedly, and repeatedly) that Jesus IS GOD.

They aren't mutually exclusive, any more than my being a "son of man" is mutually exclusive with me being a "man".
They just can't seem to fathom what is so simple to understand.
 

OldShepherd

Well-known member
Certainly, he was not God because God made him a little lower than the angels... The fact that he was with the Father his God tells me that he is not God.
The angels were part of which creation? Please show in Genesis on what day God created the angels in the creation of this world.
You might want to re-read the scripture that you are referring to.
I don't need to reread Philp 2:6-11. I can read it in more than one language including the original. But you can't. I think I can say without concern about contradiction you will deliberately mistranslate at least one word, possibly two, to make it say what you want it to.
 

rod.ney

Well-known member
Sorry Rod.ney, but if Jesus was God, then he would know the day or the hour of his own return as being both God and man but he not only tells us that he doesn't know it, but that ONLY THE FATHER DOES PERIOD and which clearly means that he doesn't know it at all and therefore he cannot be Almighty God Yahweh.

This is really a much bigger problem in your doctrine than what you would like to admit also,

For in Isaiah 46:9-10 below, God uses his omniscient ability to know the end from the beginning as the biggest proof that he alone is God and no one else beside him, here read it yourself, for the more you hear, the more responsible you are for what you hear also and just as Jesus said.

Isaiah 46:
9 Remember the former things, those of long ago;
I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is none like me.

10 I make known the end from the beginning,

from ancient times, what is still to come.
I say, ‘My purpose will stand,

and I will do all that I please.





While you trins want to quote Isaiah 9:6 all of the time, I find it interesting that none of the inspired writers of the NT ever used this verse as applied to Jesus, never the less, trins believe that the Father is not the Son nor the Spirit and the Son in not the Father or the Spirit and the Spirit is not the Father or the Son but they are three individual persons belonging to the same Divine substance of God.


Therefore your idea that Isaiah 9:6 doesn't even fit with your doctrine.

The fact is, that God himself called his own human representatives by his own title of "elohim", and he did this in Exodus 21:6 and 22:8-9 and in Isaiah 9:6 and in Psalm 45:6-7 and also in Psalm 82 that Jesus himself used to refute the false accusation of the Jews that he was making himself equal unto God only because he called God his Father.

However, God never called any of them by his actual name Yahweh and he didn't in Isaiah 9:6 either and by the way, all of the children with their particular names written in chapter 6-9 were children born at the time of the prophecy and therefore prophesies had an intended dual fulfilment and all speaking of human beings and not God/men.


The Jews believed that Isaiah 9:6 was originally written about Hezekiah because he was said to be the best ruler that Israel ever had, up until Jesus who in this case Hezekiah was the type of in the prophecy.


The words spoken in Isaiah 9:6 are only applied to the one being spoken of as God's representative and not as meaning that the one who they are applied to in the prophecy is Yahweh God himself and the same goes for all of those and especially also Psalm 45:6-7 which was quoted of Jesus in Hebrews 1:8-9.

For the one being anointed in Psalm 45:6-7 and Hebrews 1:8-9 has a God over him and who anoints him and God doesn't have another God over him.
Sorry again HWA, but Jesus is BOTH God and Man ( as per John 1:1+14 & Heb.1:6+8 ) and as Man His Father will tell Him when it is time to go fetch His bride as per 1 Thess.4:14-17! Jesus is the EVERLASTING Father ( as per Isaiah 9:6 - Not God the Father or God the Holy Spirit ) of all the humans He made/created as per John 1:3/Col.1:16! The one GOD of the scriptures consists of God the Father, God the Word ( Jesus the Son/Child or Mighty God & everlasting Father of Isaiah 9:6 - the Almighty of Rev.1:8, who is to come again to REIGN Post Trib. as per Matt.24:29-30/Rev.19:11-21& 20:1-6 ), and God the Holy Spirit ( or God the Holy Ghost ) ! Case closed and good bye HWA!
 
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Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
Sorry again HWA, but Jesus is BOTH God and Man ( as per John 1:1+14 & Heb.1:6+8 ) and as Man His Father will tell Him when it is time to go fetch His bride as per 1 Thess.4:14-17! Jesus is the EVERLASTING Father ( as per Isaiah 9:6 - Not God the Father or God the Holy Spirit ) of all the humans He made/created as per John 1:3/Col.1:16! The one GOD of the scriptures consists of God the Father, God the Word ( Jesus the Son/Child or Mighty God & everlasting Father of Isaiah 9:6 - the Almighty of Rev.1:8, who is to come again to REIGN Post Trib. as per Matt.24:29-30/Rev.19:11-21& 20:1-6 ), and God the Holy Spirit ( or God the Holy Ghost ) ! Case closed and good bye HWA!
No, but rather this name and title given to the child was to reveal God ruling through him and the promise of God was unto David and his anointed line of descendants that they would rule his kingdom forever and Hezekiah being the best of them as the scriptures state was a type of the rule of Christ who was coming after him to reign forever.


As far as Isaiah 7:14, it doesn't take a rocket scientist, if one reads the full context of chapters 7-8, that the name Emmanuel was given to a child that would be born in that generation and whose name was a sign and message from God that the conspiracy of the two Kings "Pekah and Rezin "mentioned at the beginning of chapter 7 wouldn't succeed, because God would be with Judah, "El emmanu" and as per chapter 8:10.

Therefore it is proven that this prophecy had a duel fulfillment also and that the name "Emmanuel" was given as a sign and that the sign was a message to the King and people of Judah that the evil that those two Kings would be thwarted by God because God would be "with us" Judah and as per chapter 8:8-10.

You trins disregard the context with many of these verses but concerning the prophecy of sign in the name of Emmanuel "God is with us" in Isaiah 7:14, I have copied and pasted the rest of the context that reveals this below.

Isaiah 8:9 Associate yourselves, O ye people, and ye shall be broken in pieces; and give ear, all ye of far countries: gird yourselves, and ye shall be broken in pieces; gird yourselves, and ye shall be broken in pieces.

10 Take counsel together, and it shall come to nought; speak the word, and it shall not stand: for God is with us "El emmanu".





In the above which is the context of the Emmanuel prophecy of chapter 7:14, Isaiah is taunting the two Kings Rezin and Pekah and telling them, bring on your conspiracy against Aram and the people of Judah, for it will not succeed because "God is with us" "El emmanu".

Read it closely Rod.ney because this is a fact and all of the names of the children mentioned in those prophesies were given to children that would be born at that time and they were all given as signs from God for what he would himself be doing within men.




Therefore the name Emmanuel was given first to Isaiah son and the Hebrew word for "virgin" can mean either a true virgin or a young maiden as was Isaiah's wife in the first fulfillment of this prophecy and as a true virgin as per the final fulfillment in the birth of Jesus.

However, it doesn't mean that either Isaiah's son or Jesus was God but only that their births were a sign and message from God, that through them he would be with his people.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
I don't need to reread Philp 2:6-11.
of course you do.
I can read it in more than one language including the original. But you can't.
That does not mean you can understand what you read. I understand the passage, you don't.
I think I can say without concern about contradiction you will deliberately mistranslate at least one word, possibly two, to make it say what you want it to.
What you think is of no consequence, since you lack understanding.
Why did you not address the other part of my response? The angels were part of which creation? Please show in Genesis on what day God created the angels in the creation of this world.
 

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
No, but rather this name and title given to the child was to reveal God ruling through him and the promise of God was unto David and his anointed line of descendants that they would rule his kingdom forever and Hezekiah being the best of them as the scriptures state was a type of the rule of Christ who was coming after him to reign forever.


As far as Isaiah 7:14, it doesn't take a rocket scientist, if one reads the full context of chapters 7-8, that the name Emmanuel was given to a child that would be born in that generation and whose name was a sign and message from God that the conspiracy of the two Kings "Pekah and Rezin "mentioned at the beginning of chapter 7 wouldn't succeed, because God would be with Judah, "El emmanu" and as per chapter 8:10.

Therefore it is proven that this prophecy had a duel fulfillment also and that the name "Emmanuel" was given as a sign and that the sign was a message to the King and people of Judah that the evil that those two Kings would be thwarted by God because God would be "with us" Judah and as per chapter 8:8-10.

You trins disregard the context with many of these verses but concerning the prophecy of sign in the name of Emmanuel "God is with us" in Isaiah 7:14, I have copied and pasted the rest of the context that reveals this below.

Isaiah 8:9 Associate yourselves, O ye people, and ye shall be broken in pieces; and give ear, all ye of far countries: gird yourselves, and ye shall be broken in pieces; gird yourselves, and ye shall be broken in pieces.

10 Take counsel together, and it shall come to nought; speak the word, and it shall not stand: for God is with us "El emmanu".




In the above which is the context of the Emmanuel prophecy of chapter 7:14, Isaiah is taunting the two Kings Rezin and Pekah and telling them, bring on your conspiracy against Aram and the people of Judah, for it will not succeed because "God is with us" "El emmanu".


Read it closely Rod.ney because this is a fact and all of the names of the children mentioned in those prophesies were given to children that would be born at that time and they were all given as signs from God for what he would himself be doing within men.




Therefore the name Emmanuel was given first to Isaiah son and the Hebrew word for "virgin" can mean either a true virgin or a young maiden as was Isaiah's wife in the first fulfillment of this prophecy and as a true virgin as per the final fulfillment in the birth of Jesus.

However, it doesn't mean that either Isaiah's son or Jesus was God but only that their births were a sign and message from God, that through them he would be with his people.
Correction on the above sentence in the bold blue, I meant to say "Ahaz" in place of the word "Aram" in the bold red.
 

Predestined

Well-known member
There was/is no "new belief" not supported by earlier works.
Dialogue of Justin, Philosopher and Martyr, with Trypho, a Jew. Chap. CXV
I proceed now to show that the revelation made among your people in Babylon in the days of Jesus (Joshua) the priest, was an announcement of the things to be accomplished by our Priest, who is God, and Christ the Son of God the Father of all.

Chap. CXXVI. — The Various Names of Christ According to Both Natures. It Is Shown That He Is God, and Appeared to the Patriarchs.

“But if you knew, Trypho,” continued I, “who He is that is called at one time the Angel of great counsel,285 and a Man by Ezekiel, and like the Son of man by Daniel, and a Child by Isaiah, and Christ and God to be worshipped by David, and Christ and a Stone by many, and Wisdom by Solomon, and Joseph and Judah and a Star by Moses, and the East by Zechariah, and the Suffering One and Jacob and Israel by Isaiah again, and a Rod, and Flower, and Corner-Stone, and Son of God, you would not have blasphemer Him who has now come, and been born, and suffered, and ascended to heaven; who shall also come again, and then your twelve tribes shall mourn. For if you had understood what has been written by the prophets, you would not have denied that He was God, Son of the only, unbegotten, unutterable God.

Irenaeus [A.D. 120-202.] Against Heresies. Book I.Chap. VII. [Student of Polycarp, student of John]

5. Very properly, then, did he say, “In the beginning was the Word,” for He was in the Son; “and the Word was with God,” for He was the beginning; “and the Word was God,” of course, for that which is begotten of God is God.

Irenaeus Against Heresies. Book III. Chap. XXI.

4. Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son; and ye shall call His name Emmanuel. Butter and honey shall He eat: before He knows or chooses out things that are evil, He shall exchange them for what is good; for before the child knows good or evil, He shall not consent to evil, that He may choose that which is good.” (Isa_7:10-17) Carefully, then, has the Holy Ghost pointed out, by what has been said, His birth from a virgin, and His essence, that He is God (for the name Emmanuel indicates this). And He shows that He is a man, when He says, “Butter and honey shall He eat;” and in that He terms Him a child also, [in saying,] “before He knows good and evil;” for these are all the tokens of a human infant. But that He “will not consent to evil, that He may choose that which is good,” — this is proper to God; that by the fact, that He shall eat butter and honey, we should not understand that He is a mere man only, nor, on the other hand, from the name Emmanuel, should suspect Him to be God without flesh.

Clement of Alexandria The Instructor [Paedagogus.] Book I. Chap. II.

Now, O you, my children, our Instructor is like His Father God, whose son He is, sinless, blameless, and with a soul devoid of passion; God in the form of man, stainless, the minister of His Father’s will, the Word who is God, who is in the Father, who is at the Father’s right hand, and with the form of God is God.
Excellent answer.
 
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