Did Jesus teach he was GOD himself?

OldShepherd

Well-known member
Did I make that claim somewhere? What does my father have to do with anything here?
Did I make that claim somewhere?
Surely you can not be so lacking in understanding that you cannot comprehend the purpose of my question? If the first part of the question offends you so much perhaps you might ignore the first part of the question and answer the second part. "When Jesus said that Satan was the father of some of the Jews, was that true in same way that they were sons of their human father?"
 

Lilel01

Well-known member
Is the Father The Only True God in the same way as Jesus is The Only Begotten Son of God?

Can there be another Only Begotten Son besides Jesus and if not, what does that tell you about the Father being The Only True God as per Jesus in John 17:3?
That is a magnificent reasoning: "the only X" is what it means.

Deut. 6:4 “Listen, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah.
 

Lilel01

Well-known member
Jesus never looked for anyone to consider him equal to his Father, God. He made it clear that his followers had to regard the Father as one God and worship Him alone.

John 5:41 I do not accept glory from men,

... 7:18 Whoever speaks of his own originality is seeking his own glory; but whoever seeks the glory of the one who sent him, this one is true and there is no unrighteousness in him.

... 8:48 In answer the Jews said to him: “Are we not right in saying, ‘You are a Sa·marʹi·tan and have a demon’?” 49 Jesus answered: “I do not have a demon, but I honor my Father, and you dishonor me. 50 But I am not seeking glory for myself; there is One who is seeking and judging. 51 Most truly I say to you, if anyone observes my word, he will never see death at all.” 52 The Jews said to him: “ (...) 52 (...) Who do you claim to be?” 54 Jesus answered: “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, the one who you say is your God. 55 Yet you have not known him, but I know him. And if I said I do not know him, I would be like you, a liar. But I do know him and am observing his word."
 

Fred

Well-known member
God. He made it clear that his followers had to regard the Father as one God and worship Him alone.

The Watchtower: Make no mistake about this, the true "higher powers" or "superior authorities" to whom Christians are commanded to subject themselves in worship are Jehovah God and Christ Jesus! ("Subjection to the Superior Authorities," May 1, 1951, page 275).
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1951324
 

Lilel01

Well-known member
A quote from a 1951 magazine ... Really?
Shame ... How pity I feel for some here. They only demonstrate the ridiculous things that their hatred makes them do.
 

Fred

Well-known member
A quote from a 1951 magazine ... Really?
Shame ... How pity I feel for some here. They only demonstrate the ridiculous things that their hatred makes them do.

How far back in time is too far back to refer to?

Please supply a specific date. I asked another JW on this cite to do the same, but he ran away and hid instead.
 

Lilel01

Well-known member
We get some better understanding of different things with the time. We do not believe that humans can learn everything at once ... We don't even believe humans can know everything. In our official website you will see what we have learn recently or any new understanding. If you want to quote from us, quote from there.
www.jw.org
 

Fred

Well-known member
We get some better understanding of different things with the time. We do not believe that humans can learn everything at once ... We don't even believe humans can know everything. In our official website you will see what we have learn recently or any new understanding. If you want to quote from us, quote from there.
www.jw.org

In 1954 they started to teach the Lord Jesus is not to be prayed to or worshiped, but since that time they have contradicted themselves many times with this false doctrine.

So I can quote whatever they have asserted. This is especially embarrassing when even after 1954 they still affirm the Lord Jesus is the proper recipient of prayer and worship.
 

Lilel01

Well-known member
We get some better understanding of different things with the time. We do not believe that humans can learn everything at once ... We don't even believe humans can know everything. In our official website you will see what we have learn recently or any new understanding. If you want to quote from us, quote from there.
www.jw.org
What part of this post did you not understand? I will explain it to you in other words.
 

rossh

Well-known member
The Watchtower: Make no mistake about this, the true "higher powers" or "superior authorities" to whom Christians are commanded to subject themselves in worship are Jehovah God and Christ Jesus! ("Subjection to the Superior Authorities," May 1, 1951, page 275).
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1951324
one is never able to convince the WT people, that there is no " J " ehovah, as Hebrew/Jews do not and never had nor had a letter " J ", in the alphabet..
 

Lilel01

Well-known member
But I can tell you something about the verb "to worship" in English. Many years ago, at the beginning of the 20th century, that English word did not mean the same thing that it means now. At that time it included a sense of homage that was used with human kings and other people in important positions. That makes the use of that word more extensive at that time. If you look up an Old English dictionary you will see those earlier usages. It was not wrong to say that Jesus was rendered that kind of service, because of that auxiliary sense that word had in English. In modern times it is different; the word is more specific in its meaning.
 

Fred

Well-known member
But I can tell you something about the verb "to worship" in English. Many years ago, at the beginning of the 20th century, that English word did not mean the same thing that it means now.
Ridiculous copout.

The JW's use the same word "worship" in reference to both the Father and the Lord Jesus together.
The Watchtower: You can be helpful to those doing shepherding and teaching work; you can aid others in their worship and service to God and Christ; you can make known the good news to others. (The Christian Ministry—What Does It Include?, August 1, 1971, page 459).
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1971562
 

Lilel01

Well-known member
I have not the slightest intention of continuing to talk with you...

I was trying to help you understand what the Bible says about certain things, while you pretend that you can discredit the Jehovah's Witnesses. It's called ad hominen and it's just a strategy that false Christians use when they don't want someone to teach them something they don't know.

Good evening.
 

Tanachreader

Well-known member
I have not the slightest intention of continuing to talk with you...

I was trying to help you understand what the Bible says about certain things, while you pretend that you can discredit the Jehovah's Witnesses. It's called ad hominen and it's just a strategy that false Christians use when they don't want someone to teach them something they don't know.

Good evening.
 

imJRR

Well-known member
Jesus never looked for anyone to consider him equal to his Father, God. He made it clear that his followers had to regard the Father as one God and worship Him alone.

John 5:41 I do not accept glory from men,

... 7:18 Whoever speaks of his own originality is seeking his own glory; but whoever seeks the glory of the one who sent him, this one is true and there is no unrighteousness in him.

... 8:48 In answer the Jews said to him: “Are we not right in saying, ‘You are a Sa·marʹi·tan and have a demon’?” 49 Jesus answered: “I do not have a demon, but I honor my Father, and you dishonor me. 50 But I am not seeking glory for myself; there is One who is seeking and judging. 51 Most truly I say to you, if anyone observes my word, he will never see death at all.” 52 The Jews said to him: “ (...) 52 (...) Who do you claim to be?” 54 Jesus answered: “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, the one who you say is your God. 55 Yet you have not known him, but I know him. And if I said I do not know him, I would be like you, a liar. But I do know him and am observing his word."

Jesus openly, clearly, and directly declared that seeing Him equals seeing God Himself.

Here is John 14:8-9: 8 Philip said to him: “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” 9 Jesus said to him: “Even after I have been with you men for such a long time, Philip, have you not come to know me? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How is it you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

Question: Who is "the Father"? What/Who is being referred to by that phrase?
Obvious Answer: God Himself. Considering the context of who and what Philip is - a Jew - There is no other honest way to understand the phrase in Philip's request. This is not refutable.
Jesus, knowing full well who and what Philip is and the only possible meaning to his request, straightforwardly tells Philip, "If you've seen Me, you've seen Him. If you've seen me, you've seen God Himself." There is no other honest way to take that answer.
Jesus Christ openly declares that seeing Him = Seeing God Himself.

Now - JWs say that Jesus is Michael the archangel. No, that doesn't work, and it doesn't work BIG TIME. Here's why that's true:
Michael's name means "Who Is Like God?"
Obvious answer: NO ONE.
There is NO way that Michael would have made the claim for himself that Jesus makes in verse 9. He would have been...
a) going directly against the meaning of his own name, and
b) committing blasphemy.

Add to this the fact that there is no verse in the Bible that states that Jesus is really Michael.

Add to this the fact that the Father openly and directly calls the Son “God” in Heb. 1:8

And there are plenty of other Scriptures that show and prove the Deity of Christ.

You can keep your "I will explain it to you in other words". The words of Scripture are far, FAR better, and they prove you wrong.
 
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