Did Jesus teach he was GOD himself?

rossh

Well-known member
The Watchtower: Make no mistake about this, the true "higher powers" or "superior authorities" to whom Christians are commanded to subject themselves in worship are Jehovah God and Christ Jesus! ("Subjection to the Superior Authorities," May 1, 1951, page 275).
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1951324
one is never able to convince the WT people, that there is no " J " ehovah, as Hebrew/Jews do not and never had nor had a letter " J ", in the alphabet..
 

Lilel01

Well-known member
But I can tell you something about the verb "to worship" in English. Many years ago, at the beginning of the 20th century, that English word did not mean the same thing that it means now. At that time it included a sense of homage that was used with human kings and other people in important positions. That makes the use of that word more extensive at that time. If you look up an Old English dictionary you will see those earlier usages. It was not wrong to say that Jesus was rendered that kind of service, because of that auxiliary sense that word had in English. In modern times it is different; the word is more specific in its meaning.
 

Fred

Well-known member
But I can tell you something about the verb "to worship" in English. Many years ago, at the beginning of the 20th century, that English word did not mean the same thing that it means now.
Ridiculous copout.

The JW's use the same word "worship" in reference to both the Father and the Lord Jesus together.
The Watchtower: You can be helpful to those doing shepherding and teaching work; you can aid others in their worship and service to God and Christ; you can make known the good news to others. (The Christian Ministry—What Does It Include?, August 1, 1971, page 459).
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1971562
 

Lilel01

Well-known member
I have not the slightest intention of continuing to talk with you...

I was trying to help you understand what the Bible says about certain things, while you pretend that you can discredit the Jehovah's Witnesses. It's called ad hominen and it's just a strategy that false Christians use when they don't want someone to teach them something they don't know.

Good evening.
 

Tanachreader

Well-known member
I have not the slightest intention of continuing to talk with you...

I was trying to help you understand what the Bible says about certain things, while you pretend that you can discredit the Jehovah's Witnesses. It's called ad hominen and it's just a strategy that false Christians use when they don't want someone to teach them something they don't know.

Good evening.
 

imJRR

Well-known member
Jesus never looked for anyone to consider him equal to his Father, God. He made it clear that his followers had to regard the Father as one God and worship Him alone.

John 5:41 I do not accept glory from men,

... 7:18 Whoever speaks of his own originality is seeking his own glory; but whoever seeks the glory of the one who sent him, this one is true and there is no unrighteousness in him.

... 8:48 In answer the Jews said to him: “Are we not right in saying, ‘You are a Sa·marʹi·tan and have a demon’?” 49 Jesus answered: “I do not have a demon, but I honor my Father, and you dishonor me. 50 But I am not seeking glory for myself; there is One who is seeking and judging. 51 Most truly I say to you, if anyone observes my word, he will never see death at all.” 52 The Jews said to him: “ (...) 52 (...) Who do you claim to be?” 54 Jesus answered: “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, the one who you say is your God. 55 Yet you have not known him, but I know him. And if I said I do not know him, I would be like you, a liar. But I do know him and am observing his word."

Jesus openly, clearly, and directly declared that seeing Him equals seeing God Himself.

Here is John 14:8-9: 8 Philip said to him: “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” 9 Jesus said to him: “Even after I have been with you men for such a long time, Philip, have you not come to know me? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How is it you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

Question: Who is "the Father"? What/Who is being referred to by that phrase?
Obvious Answer: God Himself. Considering the context of who and what Philip is - a Jew - There is no other honest way to understand the phrase in Philip's request. This is not refutable.
Jesus, knowing full well who and what Philip is and the only possible meaning to his request, straightforwardly tells Philip, "If you've seen Me, you've seen Him. If you've seen me, you've seen God Himself." There is no other honest way to take that answer.
Jesus Christ openly declares that seeing Him = Seeing God Himself.

Now - JWs say that Jesus is Michael the archangel. No, that doesn't work, and it doesn't work BIG TIME. Here's why that's true:
Michael's name means "Who Is Like God?"
Obvious answer: NO ONE.
There is NO way that Michael would have made the claim for himself that Jesus makes in verse 9. He would have been...
a) going directly against the meaning of his own name, and
b) committing blasphemy.

Add to this the fact that there is no verse in the Bible that states that Jesus is really Michael.

Add to this the fact that the Father openly and directly calls the Son “God” in Heb. 1:8

And there are plenty of other Scriptures that show and prove the Deity of Christ.

You can keep your "I will explain it to you in other words". The words of Scripture are far, FAR better, and they prove you wrong.
 

Fred

Well-known member
If you want to quote from us, quote from there.
www.jw.org

The boldface below is mine.

Colossians 3:20
You children, be obedient to your parents in everything, for this is well-pleasing to the Lord. (New World Translation)


In 2005, the "Lord" in Colossians 3:20 referred to Jehovah.
The Watchtower: You surely know, too, that Jehovah is pleased when you obey your parents. (Colossians 3:20) (Young People, Praise Jehovah!, June 15, 2005, page 23).


In 2007, the "Lord" in Colossians 3:20 referred to the Lord Jesus Christ.
The Watchtower: Another Bible text says that it is "well-pleasing" to our Lord Jesus Christ. Indeed, God commands you to obey your parents. - Colossians 3:20 ("Children, Be Obedient to Your Parents", February 15, 2007, page 23)
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
Surely you can not be so lacking in understanding that you cannot comprehend the purpose of my question?
The purpose of your question is to cause confusion...
If the first part of the question offends you so much perhaps you might ignore the first part of the question and answer the second part.
Your intent is to cause confusion in both parts...
"When Jesus said that Satan was the father of some of the Jews, was that true in same way that they were sons of their human father?"
No, but it is true regarding our spiritual father...God is the spiritual father of believers Satan is the spiritual father of non-believers.
 

Lilel01

Well-known member
And in Mark 12:29, The Lord our God is ONE Lord.
Hmm, must be Jesus Christ.
In Mark 12:29 Jesus is quoting directly from Deut. 6:4.

Deut. 6:4 “Listen, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah."

Is there a LORD greater than Jesus? If Jesus, our Lord, has any LORD, will not that LORD have a greater authority than Jesus Himself?

Mat. 11:25 At that time Jesus said in response: “I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to young children. 26 Yes, O Father, because this is the way you approved. (Luke 10:21).

Paul also clearly knew who is the Lord of heaven and earth:

Acts 17:24 The God who made the world and all the things in it, being, as he is, Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in handmade temples; 25 nor is he served by human hands as if he needed anything, because he himself gives to all people life and breath and all things. 26 And he made out of one man every nation of men to dwell on the entire surface of the earth, and he decreed the appointed times and the set limits of where men would dwell, 27 so that they would seek God, if they might grope for him and really find him, although, in fact, he is not far off from each one of us. 28 For by him we have life and move and exist, even as some of your own poets have said, ‘For we are also his children.’
(...) 31 (...) he has set a day on which he purposes to judge the inhabited earth in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed, and he has provided a guarantee to all men by resurrecting him from the dead.”

Although true Christians have a Lord or Master who bought us with his blood for God, we know that the Supreme Lord is GOD, his Father Jehovah, because that is what Paul and Jesus himself taught.

Rev. 5:9 And they sing a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, for you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought people for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, 10 and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.”
 

Fred

Well-known member
Rev. 5:9 And they sing a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, for you were slaughtered

Thanks for citing a Bible verse which demonstrates the Lord Jesus is the proper recipient of true worship.

Revelation 5:9 -> Whenever a new song is used in the Bible it always refers to worship (Psalm 33:3; 40:3; 96:1; 144:9; Isaiah 42:10; Revelation 5:9; 14:3)
Insight on the Scriptures: Instrumental music in connection with true worship is mentioned only in a figurative sense in the Greek Scriptures (Re 14:2); yet singing seems to have been quite common among God's servants. Jesus and his apostles sang praises after the Lord's Evening Meal. (Mr 14:26) Luke tells of Paul and Silas singing when in prison, and Paul's encouragement to fellow believers was to sing songs of praise to Jehovah. (Ac 16:25; Eph 5:18, 19; Col 3:16) Paul's statement at 1 Corinthians 14:15 concerning singing appears to indicate that it was a regular feature of Christian worship. In recording his inspired vision, John tells of various heavenly creatures singing to God and Christ.—(Re 5:8-10 14:3; 15:2-4) (Music, page 453).
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200003137
 

YeshuaFan

Well-known member
Jesus never looked for anyone to consider him equal to his Father, God. He made it clear that his followers had to regard the Father as one God and worship Him alone.

John 5:41 I do not accept glory from men,

... 7:18 Whoever speaks of his own originality is seeking his own glory; but whoever seeks the glory of the one who sent him, this one is true and there is no unrighteousness in him.

... 8:48 In answer the Jews said to him: “Are we not right in saying, ‘You are a Sa·marʹi·tan and have a demon’?” 49 Jesus answered: “I do not have a demon, but I honor my Father, and you dishonor me. 50 But I am not seeking glory for myself; there is One who is seeking and judging. 51 Most truly I say to you, if anyone observes my word, he will never see death at all.” 52 The Jews said to him: “ (...) 52 (...) Who do you claim to be?” 54 Jesus answered: “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, the one who you say is your God. 55 Yet you have not known him, but I know him. And if I said I do not know him, I would be like you, a liar. But I do know him and am observing his word."
Jesus stated to them Believe in HIM JUST as you do the Father!
 

YeshuaFan

Well-known member
In Mark 12:29 Jesus is quoting directly from Deut. 6:4.

Deut. 6:4 “Listen, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah."

Is there a LORD greater than Jesus? If Jesus, our Lord, has any LORD, will not that LORD have a greater authority than Jesus Himself?

Mat. 11:25 At that time Jesus said in response: “I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to young children. 26 Yes, O Father, because this is the way you approved. (Luke 10:21).

Paul also clearly knew who is the Lord of heaven and earth:

Acts 17:24 The God who made the world and all the things in it, being, as he is, Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in handmade temples; 25 nor is he served by human hands as if he needed anything, because he himself gives to all people life and breath and all things. 26 And he made out of one man every nation of men to dwell on the entire surface of the earth, and he decreed the appointed times and the set limits of where men would dwell, 27 so that they would seek God, if they might grope for him and really find him, although, in fact, he is not far off from each one of us. 28 For by him we have life and move and exist, even as some of your own poets have said, ‘For we are also his children.’
(...) 31 (...) he has set a day on which he purposes to judge the inhabited earth in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed, and he has provided a guarantee to all men by resurrecting him from the dead.”

Although true Christians have a Lord or Master who bought us with his blood for God, we know that the Supreme Lord is GOD, his Father Jehovah, because that is what Paul and Jesus himself taught.

Rev. 5:9 And they sing a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, for you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought people for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, 10 and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.”
Jesus is Lord,and savior, and the Bible states ONLY God is that!
 

YeshuaFan

Well-known member
Thanks for citing a Bible verse which demonstrates the Lord Jesus is the proper recipient of true worship.

Revelation 5:9 -> Whenever a new song is used in the Bible it always refers to worship (Psalm 33:3; 40:3; 96:1; 144:9; Isaiah 42:10; Revelation 5:9; 14:3)
Insight on the Scriptures: Instrumental music in connection with true worship is mentioned only in a figurative sense in the Greek Scriptures (Re 14:2); yet singing seems to have been quite common among God's servants. Jesus and his apostles sang praises after the Lord's Evening Meal. (Mr 14:26) Luke tells of Paul and Silas singing when in prison, and Paul's encouragement to fellow believers was to sing songs of praise to Jehovah. (Ac 16:25; Eph 5:18, 19; Col 3:16) Paul's statement at 1 Corinthians 14:15 concerning singing appears to indicate that it was a regular feature of Christian worship. In recording his inspired vision, John tells of various heavenly creatures singing to God and Christ.—(Re 5:8-10 14:3; 15:2-4) (Music, page 453).
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200003137
Jesus received the worship of both Angels and humans, who but God can do that?
 

rossh

Well-known member
Ridiculous copout.

The JW's use the same word "worship" in reference to both the Father and the Lord Jesus together.
The Watchtower: You can be helpful to those doing shepherding and teaching work; you can aid others in their worship and service to God and Christ; you can make known the good news to others. (The Christian Ministry—What Does It Include?, August 1, 1971, page 459).
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1971562
LOL NICE TRY, how ever to all JWs, nothing that any NON JWs say, regardless of truthfullness it is of no concern.
 

rossh

Well-known member
We get some better understanding of different things with the time. We do not believe that humans can learn everything at once ... We don't even believe humans can know everything. In our official website you will see what we have learn recently or any new understanding. If you want to quote from us, quote from there.
www.jw.org
Those who have the One True God and His Messiah can and do!!!!!!!!!!!
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
In Mark 12:29 Jesus is quoting directly from Deut. 6:4.

Deut. 6:4 “Listen, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah."

Is there a LORD greater than Jesus? If Jesus, our Lord, has any LORD, will not that LORD have a greater authority than Jesus Himself?

Mat. 11:25 At that time Jesus said in response: “I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to young children. 26 Yes, O Father, because this is the way you approved. (Luke 10:21).

Paul also clearly knew who is the Lord of heaven and earth:

Acts 17:24 The God who made the world and all the things in it, being, as he is, Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in handmade temples; 25 nor is he served by human hands as if he needed anything, because he himself gives to all people life and breath and all things. 26 And he made out of one man every nation of men to dwell on the entire surface of the earth, and he decreed the appointed times and the set limits of where men would dwell, 27 so that they would seek God, if they might grope for him and really find him, although, in fact, he is not far off from each one of us. 28 For by him we have life and move and exist, even as some of your own poets have said, ‘For we are also his children.’
(...) 31 (...) he has set a day on which he purposes to judge the inhabited earth in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed, and he has provided a guarantee to all men by resurrecting him from the dead.”

Although true Christians have a Lord or Master who bought us with his blood for God, we know that the Supreme Lord is GOD, his Father Jehovah, because that is what Paul and Jesus himself taught.

Rev. 5:9 And they sing a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, for you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought people for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, 10 and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.”
The ONE Lord IS The Lord of heaven and earth.
Is The Lord of heaven and earth OUR Lord???
Yes or No.
Christians do NOT have a Lord. They have The ONE and ONLY Lord.
The ONE Lord does NOT have a greater Lord.
 
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