Did Jesus teach he was GOD himself?

Newbirth

Well-known member
So, according to John, Jesus was making himself equal to God.
Nope that is according to those who wanted to stone Jesus...Did John want to stone Jesus?
Jesus did clearly tell them he was God:
But Jesus answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I am working.” This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God. John 5:17-18.
you are being dishonest by omission...
6 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.
17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.
21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
That does not help your argument... because God made Jesus Lord..
Acts 2:36
Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Jesus was The Lord in the womb of His mother; The ONE and ONLY Lord to call upon to be saved.
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
Nope that is according to those who wanted to stone Jesus...Did John want to stone Jesus?

you are being dishonest by omission...
6 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.
17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.
21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
Indeed, the Jews tried to stone Jesus because He was making Himself God.
Which is why we must honor Him JUST as we honor The Father.
 

DoctrinesofGraceBapt

Well-known member
Trinitarians believe Jesus is the only true God; the Father is the only true God, the Holy Spirit is the only true God. So, how are we denying Jesus said the Father is the only true God?
The scripture does not say we have three true Gods...

What part of only true God means we believe in three true Gods? We only believe in one God. It's not our fault you don't believe what we are saying.

So, according to John, Jesus was making himself equal to God.
Nope that is according to those who wanted to stone Jesus...Did John want to stone Jesus?

You missed the fact that John didn't say that's what these jews thought Jesus did. John said "This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God." Jesus broke the Sabbath and made himself equal to God. That's what John said Jesus did to piss off these Jews.

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
Jesus did clearly tell them he was God:
But Jesus answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I am working.” This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God. John 5:17-18.
you are being dishonest by omission...
6 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.
17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hither to, and I work.
18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.
21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

What did I omit that changed the fact that John said Jesus "not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God."? Oh yeah, nothing. Better luck next time.

The confusion of one who doesn't know how translations work. How would one write the Son of God in Greek? Answer: υἱὸς θεοῦ. How would one writ God the Son in Greek? Answer: υἱὸς θεοῦ. Arguments based upon the nuances of a translation are truly vacuous. You need to make better arguments because these are embarrassingly illogical.
Then you have more than one God...You have a God the son who is not God the Father and A God the HS who is not the God the son or the God the father... Three individual Gods...

Falsely claiming we have more than one God does not an argument make. Stop with the vacuous accusations.

God Bless
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
What part of only true God means we believe in three true Gods? We only believe in one God. It's not our fault you don't believe what we are saying.
The part where Jesus is God and not the father or the HS..The father is god but not Jesus or the HS anf the HS is god but not the Father or Jesus. Each person is God while not being the other two. Therefore three Gods.
You missed the fact that John didn't say that's what these jews thought Jesus did. John said "This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God." Jesus broke the Sabbath and made himself equal to God. That's what John said Jesus did to piss off these Jews.
John is stating their reason. If Jesus broke the sabbath, then he sinned. Did Jesus sin?
What did I omit that changed the fact that John said Jesus "not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God."? Oh yeah, nothing. Better luck next time.
Jesus did not make himself equal to his father...
John 14:28
Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
Falsely claiming we have more than one God does not an argument make. Stop with the vacuous accusations.

God Bless
You have three Gods, but you are forbidden to say it...This is where your doctrine comes from...

Athanasian Creed​


1. Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith;
2. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.
3. And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity;
4. Neither confounding the persons nor dividing the substance.
5. For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Spirit.
6. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit is all one, the glory equal, the majesty coeternal.
7. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit.
8. The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Spirit uncreated.
9. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Spirit incomprehensible.
10. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal.
11. And yet they are not three eternals but one eternal.
12. As also there are not three uncreated nor three incomprehensible, but one uncreated and one incomprehensible.
13. So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Spirit almighty.
14. And yet they are not three almighties, but one almighty.
15. So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God;
16. And yet they are not three Gods, but one God.
17. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit Lord;
18. And yet they are not three Lords but one Lord.

19. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord;

20. So are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say; There are three Gods or three Lords.


21. The Father is made of none, neither created nor begotten.
22. The Son is of the Father alone; not made nor created, but begotten.
23. The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.
24. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Spirit, not three Holy Spirits.
25. And in this Trinity none is afore or after another; none is greater or less than another.
26. But the whole three persons are coeternal, and coequal.
27. So that in all things, as aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped.
28. He therefore that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity.
29. Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.
30. For the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man.
31. God of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and man of substance of His mother, born in the world.
32. Perfect God and perfect man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting.
33. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood.
34. Who, although He is God and man, yet He is not two, but one Christ.
35. One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking of that manhood into God.
36. One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person.
37. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ;
38. Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead;
39. He ascended into heaven, He sits on the right hand of the Father, God, Almighty;
40. From thence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
41. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies;
42. and shall give account of their own works.
43. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting and they that have done evil into everlasting fire.
44. This is the catholic faith, which except a man believe faithfully he cannot be saved.
 

DoctrinesofGraceBapt

Well-known member
What part of only true God means we believe in three true Gods? We only believe in one God. It's not our fault you don't believe what we are saying.
The part where Jesus is God and not the father or the HS..The father is god but not Jesus or the HS anf the HS is god but not the Father or Jesus. Each person is God while not being the other two. Therefore three Gods.

So, you like to assume we are tritheist. Good to know.

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
You missed the fact that John didn't say that's what these jews thought Jesus did. John said "This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God." Jesus broke the Sabbath and made himself equal to God. That's what John said Jesus did to piss off these Jews.
John is stating their reason. If Jesus broke the sabbath, then he sinned. Did Jesus sin?

Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath. Perhaps, you should learn what that means. John said Jesus "was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.", not the Jews thought Jesus "was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God."

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
What did I omit that changed the fact that John said Jesus "not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God."? Oh yeah, nothing. Better luck next time.
Jesus did not make himself equal to his father...
John 14:28
Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

So when push comes to shove, you simply throw out Scripture. Good to know.

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
Falsely claiming we have more than one God does not an argument make. Stop with the vacuous accusations.
You have three Gods, but you are forbidden to say it...This is where your doctrine comes from...

Athanasian Creed​


Or, we don't have three Gods, and you are bearing false witness.

God Bless
 

Lilel01

Well-known member
You Trinitarians don't have the faintest idea what you believe. You have never been able to explain it without entangling yourselves in a kind of meaningless verbiage. You depend on others to tell you how what you say looks like, and that is a mess, a lie all tangled up that you can't unravel in any way and that is OBVIOUSLY not the kind of idea that God gives or wants to give about himself. If it were that complicated thing that you want to make believe with all that theological verbiage, then humble people would not be the group to whom the promises of God are directed ... You who theorize with that theological verbiage are nothing more than arrogant braggarts who think you can tell people what to believe.

1 Cor. 1:26 For YOU behold his calling of YOU, brothers, that not many wise in a fleshly way were called, not many powerful, not many of noble birth; 27 but God chose the foolish things of the world, that he might put the wise men to shame; and God chose the weak things of the world, that he might put the strong things to shame; 28 and God chose the ignoble things of the world and the things looked down upon, the things that are not, that he might bring to nothing the things that are, 29 in order that no flesh might boast in the sight of God. 30 But it is due to him that YOU are in union with Christ Jesus, who has become to us wisdom from God, also righteousness and sanctification and release by ransom; 31 that it may be just as it is written: “He that boasts, let him boast in Jehovah.”
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
So, you like to assume we are tritheist. Good to know.
I am not assuming anything , you are what you are.
Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath. Perhaps, you should learn what that means. John said Jesus "was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.", not the Jews thought Jesus "was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God."
If Jesus is God and equal with his father God that is two Gods...
So when push comes to shove, you simply throw out Scripture. Good to know.
Which scripture did I throw out? I did not throw out any scripture. I threw out your misunderstanding of the scripture... John cannot be saying Jesus is equal to God in one passage. Then in another passage, be saying God is greater than Jesus.
Or, we don't have three Gods, and you are bearing false witness.

God Bless
You just stated three Gods... God the Father, God the Son, and God the HS... If you don't have three Gods please tell me which two of the three, God the father...God the Son and God the HS are not God.
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
You Trinitarians don't have the faintest idea what you believe. You have never been able to explain it without entangling yourselves in a kind of meaningless verbiage. You depend on others to tell you how what you say looks like, and that is a mess, a lie all tangled up that you can't unravel in any way and that is OBVIOUSLY not the kind of idea that God gives or wants to give about himself. If it were that complicated thing that you want to make believe with all that theological verbiage, then humble people would not be the group to whom the promises of God are directed ... You who theorize with that theological verbiage are nothing more than arrogant braggarts who think you can tell people what to believe.

1 Cor. 1:26 For YOU behold his calling of YOU, brothers, that not many wise in a fleshly way were called, not many powerful, not many of noble birth; 27 but God chose the foolish things of the world, that he might put the wise men to shame; and God chose the weak things of the world, that he might put the strong things to shame; 28 and God chose the ignoble things of the world and the things looked down upon, the things that are not, that he might bring to nothing the things that are, 29 in order that no flesh might boast in the sight of God. 30 But it is due to him that YOU are in union with Christ Jesus, who has become to us wisdom from God, also righteousness and sanctification and release by ransom; 31 that it may be just as it is written: “He that boasts, let him boast in Jehovah.”
He that glories, let him glory in The Lord. Paul NEVER used the name Jehovah.
 

Lilel01

Well-known member
Oh, yes he did, so many times, like here:

Rom. 4:1 That being so, what will we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? 2 For instance, if Abraham was declared righteous as a result of works, he would have reason to boast, but not with God. 3 For what does the scripture say? “Abraham put faith in Jehovah, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” 4 Now to the man who works, his pay is not counted as an undeserved kindness but as something owed to him. 5 On the other hand, to the man who does not work but puts faith in the One who declares the ungodly one righteous, his faith is counted as righteousness. 6 Just as David also speaks of the happiness of the man to whom God counts righteousness apart from works: 7 “Happy are those whose lawless deeds have been pardoned and whose sins have been covered; 8 happy is the man whose sin Jehovah will by no means take into account.”

Twice in the same paragraph.

Gen. 15:6 And he [Abraham] put faith in Jehovah, and He counted it to him as righteousness.

Psal. 32:1 Happy is the one whose transgression is pardoned, whose sin is covered.
2 Happy is the man whom Jehovah does not charge with guilt,
In whose spirit there is no deceit.

But, what can you know, if they, your leaders, don't even let you know where Jehovah's name appears in the Hebrew Scriptures? You have invented a deity out of three that you call IOW or something like that. You are very fanciful and funny ... but you are not a real Christian.
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
Oh, yes he did, so many times, like here:

Rom. 4:1 That being so, what will we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? 2 For instance, if Abraham was declared righteous as a result of works, he would have reason to boast, but not with God. 3 For what does the scripture say? “Abraham put faith in Jehovah, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” 4 Now to the man who works, his pay is not counted as an undeserved kindness but as something owed to him. 5 On the other hand, to the man who does not work but puts faith in the One who declares the ungodly one righteous, his faith is counted as righteousness. 6 Just as David also speaks of the happiness of the man to whom God counts righteousness apart from works: 7 “Happy are those whose lawless deeds have been pardoned and whose sins have been covered; 8 happy is the man whose sin Jehovah will by no means take into account.”

Twice in the same paragraph.

Gen. 15:6 And he [Abraham] put faith in Jehovah, and He counted it to him as righteousness.

Psal. 32:1 Happy is the one whose transgression is pardoned, whose sin is covered.
2 Happy is the man whom Jehovah does not charge with guilt,
In whose spirit there is no deceit.

But, what can you know, if they, your leaders, don't even let you know where Jehovah's name appears in the Hebrew Scriptures? You have invented a deity out of three that you call IOW or something like that. You are very fanciful and funny ... but you are not a real Christian.
Abraham believed in God. Romans 4:3.
Blessed is the man to whom The Lord will not impute sin. Romans 4:8
 
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