Did Jesus teach he was GOD himself?

Lilel01

Well-known member
Your leaders have forbidden you to mention God's Name because they don't care if you save yourself.

Mal. 3:16 At that time those who fear Jehovah spoke with one another, each one with his companion, and Jehovah kept paying attention and listening. And a book of remembrance was written before him for those fearing Jehovah and for those meditating on his name.
17 “And they will be mine,” says Jehovah of armies, “in the day when I produce a special property. I will show them compassion, just as a man shows compassion to his son who serves him. 18 And you will again see the distinction between a righteous person and a wicked person, between one serving God and one not serving him.”
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
Your leaders have forbidden you to mention God's Name because they don't care if you save yourself.

Mal. 3:16 At that time those who fear Jehovah spoke with one another, each one with his companion, and Jehovah kept paying attention and listening. And a book of remembrance was written before him for those fearing Jehovah and for those meditating on his name.
17 “And they will be mine,” says Jehovah of armies, “in the day when I produce a special property. I will show them compassion, just as a man shows compassion to his son who serves him. 18 And you will again see the distinction between a righteous person and a wicked person, between one serving God and one not serving him.”
We mention God's name every time we baptize. Matthew 28:19.
 

Lilel01

Well-known member
We mention God's name every time we baptize. Matthew 28:19.
What name and why only at that moment and not always? And you mean with WE?

Mal. 3:16,17 does not say mention Jehovah's name once, but talking about Him, meditating on his Name ... That is very important ... and His name is not IOW, so ... stop making ridiculous statements about it.
 

DoctrinesofGraceBapt

Well-known member
So, you like to assume we are tritheist. Good to know.
I am not assuming anything , you are what you are.

You are assuming three persons cannot be the same God.

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath. Perhaps, you should learn what that means. John said Jesus "was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.", not the Jews thought Jesus "was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God."
If Jesus is God and equal with his father God that is two Gods...

Only if one assumes three persons cannot be the same God.

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
So when push comes to shove, you simply throw out Scripture. Good to know.
Which scripture did I throw out? I did not throw out any scripture. I threw out your misunderstanding of the scripture... John cannot be saying Jesus is equal to God in one passage. Then in another passage, be saying God is greater than Jesus.

John said Jesus "not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God." Why don't you deal with this verse, John 5:18, before changing the topic? Note, I'm not even interpreting it right now. I'm just quoting it, and you won't even bother to interact with what it says.

BTW, if one verse says they are equal and another says they are not equal, then the Father and the Son must be equal in one way and not in another. Wow, that exactly what Trinitarians believe.


DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
Or, we don't have three Gods, and you are bearing false witness.
You just stated three Gods... God the Father, God the Son, and God the HS... If you don't have three Gods please tell me which two of the three, God the father...God the Son and God the HS are not God.

No, I didn't. You're just doubling down on your false witness.

God Bless
 

DoctrinesofGraceBapt

Well-known member
You Trinitarians don't have the faintest idea what you believe. You have never been able to explain it without entangling yourselves in a kind of meaningless verbiage. You depend on others to tell you how what you say looks like, and that is a mess, a lie all tangled up that you can't unravel in any way and that is OBVIOUSLY not the kind of idea that God gives or wants to give about himself. If it were that complicated thing that you want to make believe with all that theological verbiage, then humble people would not be the group to whom the promises of God are directed ... You who theorize with that theological verbiage are nothing more than arrogant braggarts who think you can tell people what to believe.

1 Cor. 1:26 For YOU behold his calling of YOU, brothers, that not many wise in a fleshly way were called, not many powerful, not many of noble birth; 27 but God chose the foolish things of the world, that he might put the wise men to shame; and God chose the weak things of the world, that he might put the strong things to shame; 28 and God chose the ignoble things of the world and the things looked down upon, the things that are not, that he might bring to nothing the things that are, 29 in order that no flesh might boast in the sight of God. 30 But it is due to him that YOU are in union with Christ Jesus, who has become to us wisdom from God, also righteousness and sanctification and release by ransom; 31 that it may be just as it is written: “He that boasts, let him boast in Jehovah.”

Drive by accusations that don't interact with the other side are meaningless.
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
What name and why only at that moment and not always? And you mean with WE?

Mal. 3:16,17 does not say mention Jehovah's name once, but talking about Him, meditating on his Name ... That is very important ... and His name is not IOW, so ... stop making ridiculous statements about it.
Father, Son, Holy Spirit mentioned at every worship service.
IOW?????
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
You are assuming three persons cannot be the same God.
Assuming? I am saying the scripture does not say...three persons cannot be the same God.
Only if one assumes three persons cannot be the same God.
One does not have to assume. The scriptures do not say that..
John said Jesus "not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God." Why don't you deal with this verse, John 5:18, before changing the topic? Note, I'm not even interpreting it right now. I'm just quoting it, and you won't even bother to interact with what it says.
Your Jesus is a sinner. He broke the sabbath.
BTW, if one verse says they are equal and another says they are not equal, then the Father and the Son must be equal in one way and not in another. Wow, that exactly what Trinitarians believe.
That is confusion, it is either they are equal or they are not...You claim Jesus sinned, the scripture says he did not sin... does that mean Jesus sinned in some ways and not in others?
No, I didn't. You're just doubling down on your false witness.

God Bless
Your post mentioned three Gods...it says ...the father is God, the Son is God, and the HS is God. They are not each other are they? Therefore you have three Gods...
 

aeg4971

Active member
So, this is my point on this thread: Did Jesus teach he was GOD himself?

If he did, then we should believe it ... but if he did not, what should we do?

Luke 6:46 “Why, then, do you call me ‘Lord! Lord!’ but do not do the things I say?
Why would Jesus come to say ,He was God when He was made of no reputation by taking upon Him the Form of a servant, having been made passable in the likeness of men, to become obedient unto death to the glory of God the Father?

We do not have to be convinced that Christ is man, for it is written," I have come not to do my own will, but the will of the one you sent me ".

.........Alan
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
Assuming? I am saying the scripture does not say...three persons cannot be the same God.

One does not have to assume. The scriptures do not say that..

Your Jesus is a sinner. He broke the sabbath.

That is confusion, it is either they are equal or they are not...You claim Jesus sinned, the scripture says he did not sin... does that mean Jesus sinned in some ways and not in others?

Your post mentioned three Gods...it says ...the father is God, the Son is God, and the HS is God. They are not each other are they? Therefore you have three Gods...
God is not bound by the Sabbath. He is ALWAYS working.
 

DoctrinesofGraceBapt

Well-known member
You are assuming three persons cannot be the same God.
Assuming? I am saying the scripture does not say...three persons cannot be the same God.

What? You are accusing me of being a Tritheist because you think three persons who are God makes three Gods. The assertion three persons who are God makes three Gods is an assumption. That Scripture doesn't say this makes it an assumption. Why can't three persons be the same God?

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
Only if one assumes three persons cannot be the same God.
One does not have to assume. The scriptures do not say that..

That Scripture does not say it doesn't give you the right to assume we are Tritheists. BTW, you are not just saying Scripture doesn't teach the Trinity. You are accusing us of believing in three Gods. That's an assumption. That Scripture doesn't say this makes it an assumption.

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
John said Jesus "not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God." Why don't you deal with this verse, John 5:18, before changing the topic? Note, I'm not even interpreting it right now. I'm just quoting it, and you won't even bother to interact with what it says.
Your Jesus is a sinner. He broke the sabbath.

Jesus broke the Sabbath without sinning because he is the Lord of the Sabbath. Besides, John said Jesus "not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God." That's Scripture. That you don't believe it shows your rejection of the God of Scripture.

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
BTW, if one verse says they are equal and another says they are not equal, then the Father and the Son must be equal in one way and not in another. Wow, that exactly what Trinitarians believe.
That is confusion, it is either they are equal or they are not...

No, that's called logic. That you reject one verse in light of another is a sign of anti-christ. If one verse says they are equal and another says they are not equal, then the Father and the Son must be equal in one way and not in another. Wow, that exactly what Trinitarians believe.

You claim Jesus sinned, the scripture says he did not sin... does that mean Jesus sinned in some ways and not in others?

I did not claim Jesus sinned. There you go bearing false witness again. BTW, David likewise broke the Sabbath without sinning:
One Sabbath he was going through the grain fields, and as they made their way, his disciples began to pluck heads of grain. And the Pharisees were saying to him, “Look, why are they doing what is not lawful on the Sabbath?” And he said to them, “Have you never read what David did, when he was in need and was hungry, he and those who were with him: how he entered the house of God, in the time of Abiathar the high priest, and ate the bread of the Presence, which it is not lawful for any but the priests to eat, and also gave it to those who were with him?” And he said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. So the Son of Man is lord even of the Sabbath.” Mark 2:23-28
Is your Jesus Lord of the Sabbath, or just a man?

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
No, I didn't. You're just doubling down on your false witness.
Your post mentioned three Gods...it says ...the father is God, the Son is God, and the HS is God. They are not each other are they? Therefore you have three Gods...

It doesn't mention three Gods. I said the Father is the only true God, the Son is the only true God and the Spirit is the only true God. The only logical way to read such is that the Father, Son and Spirit are the same God. Why do you keep on assuming three persons who are God means three Gods?

God Bless
 

Lilel01

Well-known member
What the Jews said about Jesus were false accusations. Notice that they said that he was breaking the Sabbath law as well as saying that he said he was equal with God...they were just accusations from his enemies.

When Trinitarians say that Jesus made himself equal with God, they are using the same falsehood and twisted thinking of Jesus' enemies, accusing him of things he was not doing.
 

Lilel01

Well-known member
Drive by accusations that don't interact with the other side are meaningless.
It is for everyone who read my posts to think about what he is trying to do when negating everything that is supported with biblical passages.

It is useless to show people what the Bible says and they have to accept, if people don't realize it or don't mind... They change topic every time someone tell them something that the Bible says.

A sincere person should be capable to accept when he is wrong, when he has misunderstood something or when he is using an argument that does not make sense ... But who of the Trinitarians has ever done that here?

Dozens of their mistakes have been explained to them, but they continue to ignore it as if no one had told them anything... It is useless to dialogue with people who act as if they were walls and from the beginning do not want to rectify anything.

2 Tim. 3:16 All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
What? You are accusing me of being a Tritheist because you think three persons who are God makes three Gods.
I have no thoughts about three persons who are god because the scripture does not say anything about three persons being God.
The assertion three persons who are God makes three Gods is an assumption.
You are the one who asserts three persons make one God I simply disagree with you. Three individual persons each called God are three Gods in any language.
That Scripture doesn't say this makes it an assumption. Why can't three persons be the same God?
because each individual person is an individual God. You write it at every turn...God the father , God the son, and God the HS. three individual Gods.Each not the other.
That Scripture does not say it doesn't give you the right to assume we are Tritheists.
So if the scripture does not say it, where did you get that teaching from?
BTW, you are not just saying Scripture doesn't teach the Trinity.
Show me where the scripture says God is a trinity.
You are accusing us of believing in three Gods.
You do, you believe in God the father , God the son and God the Hs, each not the other...
That's an assumption. That Scripture doesn't say this makes it an assumption.
I am not assuming you wrote it in your post that The father is God , the son is God and the HS is God. They are not each other are they? then they are three individual Gods
Jesus broke the Sabbath without sinning because he is the Lord of the Sabbath.
That makes no sense... You are saying Jesus sinned without sinning...That seems like an excuse for you to sin and claim sin without sinning.
Besides, John said Jesus "not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God." That's Scripture. That you don't believe it shows your rejection of the God of Scripture.
That is a denial that God is Jesus' father. Are you saying that God is not Jesus' Father?
No, that's called logic. That you reject one verse in light of another is a sign of anti-christ. If one verse says they are equal and another says they are not equal, then the Father and the Son must be equal in one way and not in another. Wow, that exactly what Trinitarians believe.
That is a gross misunderstanding on your part... The Jews were claiming that Jesus broke the sabbath and was claiming to be equal with God because he said God was his father.
If your lamb fell in a ditch and broke its leg on the sabbath will you leave it there? If your son must be circumcised on the eighth day after birth and that day is the sabbath will you circumcise or not? If your wife is giving birth on the sabbath and the midwife refuses to work on the sabbath and your wife has complications, and she and the baby die, who do you blame? If someone comes to rob you on the sabbath will you defend your property or will you let them take it all?

I did not claim Jesus sinned. There you go bearing false witness again. BTW, David likewise broke the Sabbath without sinning:
One Sabbath he was going through the grain fields, and as they made their way, his disciples began to pluck heads of grain. And the Pharisees were saying to him, “Look, why are they doing what is not lawful on the Sabbath?” And he said to them, “Have you never read what David did, when he was in need and was hungry, he and those who were with him: how he entered the house of God, in the time of Abiathar the high priest, and ate the bread of the Presence, which it is not lawful for any but the priests to eat, and also gave it to those who were with him?” And he said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. So the Son of Man is lord even of the Sabbath.” Mark 2:23-28
But you said John wrote Jesus broke the sabbath. Now you are equating Jesus with David...Breaking the Sabbath is a sin there is no such thing as sinning without sinning. It is either they broke it or they did not break it.
Is your Jesus Lord of the Sabbath, or just a man?
Both since you would agree David must also be the Lord of the sabbath if he is not guilty for eating shewbread on the sabbath.
It doesn't mention three Gods. I said the Father is the only true God, the Son is the only true God and the Spirit is the only true God.
Three true gods since they are not each other.
The only logical way to read such is that the Father, Son and Spirit are the same God.
That is not logical since they are not each other.
Why do you keep on assuming three persons who are God means three Gods?

God Bless
Because you call each of them God and they are not each other...
 

DoctrinesofGraceBapt

Well-known member
It is for everyone who read my posts to think about what he is trying to do when negating everything that is supported with biblical passages.

It is useless to show people what the Bible says and they have to accept, if people don't realize it or don't mind... They change topic every time someone tell them something that the Bible says.

A sincere person should be capable to accept when he is wrong, when he has misunderstood something or when he is using an argument that does not make sense ... But who of the Trinitarians has ever done that here?

Dozens of their mistakes have been explained to them, but they continue to ignore it as if no one had told them anything... It is useless to dialogue with people who act as if they were walls and from the beginning do not want to rectify anything.

2 Tim. 3:16 All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.

Well, you're causing us to pity you. You are so lost in your own opinion without a clue on the Truth of the Gospel or on the God of Scripture. Refusing to talk things out in a long form, back and forth discussion is an expression of not being capable of accepting when he is wrong. Every single critique you just gave can be turned back on you, but I'm still talking, and you are shielding yourself from the opinions of others for some reason.

God Bless
 

Lilel01

Well-known member
What can I say? Do you think I care what you think about me? I care what Jesus and Jehovah think of me.
Imagine if Paul had thought about what the Jews who were trying to kill him thought about him... Ridiculous, right?
 

DoctrinesofGraceBapt

Well-known member
What? You are accusing me of being a Tritheist because you think three persons who are God makes three Gods.
I have no thoughts about three persons who are god because the scripture does not say anything about three persons being God.

Okay

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
The assertion three persons who are God makes three Gods is an assumption.
You are the one who asserts three persons make one God I simply disagree with you. Three individual persons each called God are three Gods in any language.

Why are you disagreeing with me? Answer: because you assume three persons who are God makes three Gods. If you were just disagreeing with me because Scripture doesn't talk about it, you wouldn't be accusing me of believing in three Gods. You don't just say I disagree with you. You are accusing me of Tritheism. You need to justify that accusation. Asserting "Three individual persons each called God are three Gods in any language." IS AN ASSUMPTION!!!

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
That Scripture doesn't say this makes it an assumption. Why can't three persons be the same God?
because each individual person is an individual God. You write it at every turn...God the father , God the son, and God the HS. three individual Gods.Each not the other.

Why would each particular person be an individual God? You keep on asserting the same thing without giving a justification for such. That's called an ASSUMPTION.

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
That Scripture does not say it doesn't give you the right to assume we are Tritheists.
So if the scripture does not say it, where did you get that teaching from?

That's a meaningful question. Evil men trade in the truth for a lie. In response, Christians discuss and argue with the anti-Chirsts, the wolves in sheep's clothing. Over time, different ways of saying things develop. That's it.

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
That's an assumption. That Scripture doesn't say this makes it an assumption.
I am not assuming you wrote it in your post that The father is God , the son is God and the HS is God. They are not each other are they? then they are three individual Gods

You are assuming that the statements the Father is God, the Son is God and the Holy Spirit is God. mean three Gods.
I said A—the Father is God, the Son is God and the Holy Spirit is God.
I did not say B— they are three individual Gods.
How did you get from A to B? You assumed A implies B. You are wrong to assume such.


DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
Jesus broke the Sabbath without sinning because he is the Lord of the Sabbath.
That makes no sense... You are saying Jesus sinned without sinning...That seems like an excuse for you to sin and claim sin without sinning.

Is a man driving his wife, who is in labor, to the hospital at 50mph in a 35mph zone breaking the Speed limit? Yep. Did they break the law? Nope, because they are following a Police officer who is giving them an escort to get to the hospital quicker. There are exceptions to the law, and the law giver, or enforcer, can simply remove the legal requirements in a situation without removing the overarching law. Since Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath, he has the right to simply not apply legal/moral requirements to follow the Sabbath. The Jews simply didn't recognize his right to do so as the Lord of the Sabbath. So, Jesus broke the Sabbath without sinning because he is the Lord of the Sabbath.

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
Besides, John said Jesus "not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God." That's Scripture. That you don't believe it shows your rejection of the God of Scripture.
That is a denial that God is Jesus' father. Are you saying that God is not Jesus' Father?

No, that's quoting Scripture and condemning you for rejecting it.

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
No, that's called logic. That you reject one verse in light of another is a sign of anti-christ. If one verse says they are equal and another says they are not equal, then the Father and the Son must be equal in one way and not in another. Wow, that's exactly what Trinitarians believe.
That is a gross misunderstanding on your part... The Jews were claiming that Jesus broke the sabbath and was claiming to be equal with God because he said God was his father.

The text doesn't say the Jews were claiming... The text says "the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God." Why are you denying what the text says?

If your lamb fell in a ditch and broke its leg on the sabbath will you leave it there? If your son must be circumcised on the eighth day after birth and that day is the sabbath will you circumcise or not? If your wife is giving birth on the sabbath and the midwife refuses to work on the sabbath and your wife has complications, and she and the baby die, who do you blame? If someone comes to rob you on the sabbath will you defend your property or will you let them take it all?

Those are all examples of breaking the Sabbath without sinning.

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
I did not claim Jesus sinned. There you go bearing false witness again. BTW, David likewise broke the Sabbath without sinning:
One Sabbath...” Mark 2:23-28
But you said John wrote Jesus broke the sabbath. Now you are equating Jesus with David...Breaking the Sabbath is a sin there is no such thing as sinning without sinning. It is either they broke it or they did not break it.

Generally, breaking the Sabbath is a sin, but that doesn't mean one can't brake the Sabbath without sinning. We keep on going in circles. Listen to what I say before trying to condemn me for what I didn't say.


DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
Is your Jesus Lord of the Sabbath, or just a man?
Both since you would agree David must also be the Lord of the sabbath if he is not guilty for eating shewbread on the sabbath.

David was not the Lord of the Sabbath. Did you even read Mark 2:23-28? If you won't even bother reading Scripture, why should I consider your positions as viable? There are legal/moral times to break the Sabbath. At those times, one breaks Sabbath without sinning. Outside of those times, it would be sinful to break Sabbath.

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
It doesn't mention three Gods. I said the Father is the only true God, the Son is the only true God and the Spirit is the only true God.
Three true gods since they are not each other.
DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
The only logical way to read such is that the Father, Son and Spirit are the same God.
That is not logical since they are not each other.
DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
Why do you keep on assuming three persons who are God means three Gods?
Because you call each of them God and they are not each other....

Why does "they are not each other" imply they are different Gods? Oh yeah, you're just assuming it again.

God Bless
 

DoctrinesofGraceBapt

Well-known member
What can I say? Do you think I care what you think about me? I care what Jesus and Jehovah think of me.
Imagine if Paul had thought about what the Jews who were trying to kill him thought about him... Ridiculous, right?

No, I don't think you care what I think about you. But, I care about you. You need to kill this hubris. It's not but a fancy defense mechanism designed to protect you opinions from the opinions of others. Why are you so scared? Do you not believe you are correct?

God Bless
 
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