OldShepherd
Well-known member
Irrelevant. Unless you can show some relevance. Where does scripture say "the Father who is God?"therefore it does not say... "the word who is God"
Irrelevant. Unless you can show some relevance. Where does scripture say "the Father who is God?"therefore it does not say... "the word who is God"
The Holy Spirit ALONE was ALL about the throne and proceeded OUT of the throne.then all those all about and around the throne are God also...
So you are saying God is not a God? Or a God is not God?...you are exposing your ignorance...
Answer the question.It does not say... "the word who is God" anywhere in the scripture...You are the one saying it does, so show it to me in the scripture...
That is why I pointed it out to you. Did you not just post that Jews are blind?I’m amazed you know that! Do you believe it?
Where did I do that? Did I say the word who is God? You are the one putting your words above God's word.So why do you place your word above God’s WORD.
Strawman argument, I did not make that argument but Jesus said God is his father. The phrase "the word who is God" is not written in the scripture.Irrelevant. Unless you can show some relevance. Where does scripture say "the Father who is God?"
Revelation 7:11The Holy Spirit ALONE was ALL about the throne and proceeded OUT of the throne.
NO elder did. ONLY ONE Person ALL around the throne and proceeding out of it: The Holy Spirit.
Your jejune word game arguments are meaningless unless you can find the same grammatical structure somewhere else in the Bible.Strawman argument, I did not make that argument but Jesus said God is his father. The phrase "the word who is God" is not written in the scripture.
No, I want it as the AS IS scriptures tells us BEFORE you ADD ( HWA ) your TWIST ( 2 Peter 3:16 ) to them! Thus those posted ( AS IS ) scriptures still rebukes your twisted view as per 2 Tim.3:16 and the case is closed on your counterfeit Jesus Christ who is just a man and NOT God also! John 1:1-18 & 8:58 and Hebrews 1:6+8 are the AS IS scriptures that PROVES He is both fully God ( the Word of John 1:1 ) and fully human ( the FLESH of John 1:14 ) as a man! So it is CLEARLY you that wants it your way! If the scriptures actually told us that He is just a man, then I would go by that and be satisfied! But John 1:1+14 tells us that the Word " Was God " and then BECAME " Flesh " ( God the Word in the flesh ) as Jesus Christ the God/Man! Yes God/Man as God can NEVER cease to still be God when He becomes flesh as a man! Case closed HWA!You want it your way and therefore I am fine with that but you are wrong and you will find that out for yourself soon enough.
Thus according to you - some one who is NOT God made/created All things ( John 1:3/Col.1:16 )! John 1:1 says " the WORD was God " and verse 3 says all things were made through Him ( Precarnate Jesus Christ as the Word in verse 1 who became Incarnate as Jesus Christ in verse 14 )! Then we also have Col.1:16 that says " All things were created By Him "! Thus these passages that GOES with that passage ( John 1:10 ) proves it was God! And Yes John 1:1 does NOT say " the WORD IS God " , as it ACTUALLY says " the WORD WAS God " because there was a CHANGE of He who " was God " in verse 1 in verse 14 - " the WORD became Flesh " ( Incarnate - God/Man since God can NEVER cease to still be God ) as Jesus Christ! Thus All scriptures on the SAME Topic MUST be used to see that Fact ( Jesus WAS God the Word in John 1:1 before He became God/Man ( incarnate - God in the Flesh ) in John 1:14! Case closed!I don't see ... "the word who is God" written in that passage..
So where does it say ...the word whois God?... There is no mention of "God the word" or Jesus becoming "God-Man" There was no change because God said he does not change... You affirm that ... And Yes John 1:1 does NOT say " the WORD IS God " so why are you still arguing? You just supported mu position and the position of the scripture, then you go on to make false claims.Thus according to you - some one who is NOT God made/created All things ( John 1:3/Col.1:16 )! John 1:1 says " the WORD was God " and verse 3 says all things were made through Him ( Precarnate Jesus Christ as the Word in verse 1 who became Incarnate as Jesus Christ in verse 14 )! Then we also have Col.1:16 that says " All things were created By Him "! Thus these passages that GOES with that passage ( John 1:10 ) proves it was God! And Yes John 1:1 does NOT say " the WORD IS God " , as it ACTUALLY says " the WORD WAS God " because there was a CHANGE of He who " was God " in verse 1 in verse 14 - " the WORD became Flesh " ( Incarnate - God/Man since God can NEVER cease to still be God ) as Jesus Christ! Thus All scriptures on the SAME Topic MUST be used to see that Fact ( Jesus WAS God the Word in John 1:1 before He became God/Man ( incarnate - God in the Flesh ) in John 1:14! Case closed!
Yeah sure Rod.ney and that is why you refuse to accept Jesus' own words on this below while you want to claim that he is your Lord.No, I want it as the AS IS scriptures tells us BEFORE you ADD ( HWA ) your TWIST ( 2 Peter 3:16 ) to them! Thus those posted ( AS IS ) scriptures still rebukes your twisted view as per 2 Tim.3:16 and the case is closed on your counterfeit Jesus Christ who is just a man and NOT God also! John 1:1-18 & 8:58 and Hebrews 1:6+8 are the AS IS scriptures that PROVES He is both fully God ( the Word of John 1:1 ) and fully human ( the FLESH of John 1:14 ) as a man! So it is CLEARLY you that wants it your way! If the scriptures actually told us that He is just a man, then I would go by that and be satisfied! But John 1:1+14 tells us that the Word " Was God " and then BECAME " Flesh " ( God the Word in the flesh ) as Jesus Christ the God/Man! Yes God/Man as God can NEVER cease to still be God when He becomes flesh as a man! Case closed HWA!
If you want as is scripture then post as is scripture... You cannot be posting your made-up rubbish about God-man. The scripture does tell us that Jesus was just a man... you refuse to believe it.No, I want it as the AS IS scriptures tells us BEFORE you ADD ( HWA ) your TWIST ( 2 Peter 3:16 ) to them! Thus those posted ( AS IS ) scriptures still rebukes your twisted view as per 2 Tim.3:16 and the case is closed on your counterfeit Jesus Christ who is just a man and NOT God also! John 1:1-18 & 8:58 and Hebrews 1:6+8 are the AS IS scriptures that PROVES He is both fully God ( the Word of John 1:1 ) and fully human ( the FLESH of John 1:14 ) as a man! So it is CLEARLY you that wants it your way! If the scriptures actually told us that He is just a man, then I would go by that and be satisfied! But John 1:1+14 tells us that the Word " Was God " and then BECAME " Flesh " ( God the Word in the flesh ) as Jesus Christ the God/Man! Yes God/Man as God can NEVER cease to still be God when He becomes flesh as a man! Case closed HWA!
And I posted where John also wrote that the Son of God is also the TRUE God ( because the ONE GOD is a TRINITY ) and here it is AS IS ( HWA )------------------- 1 John 2:20 -Yeah sure Rod.ney and that is why you refuse to accept Jesus' own words on this below while you want to claim that he is your Lord.
By the way, do you know how many people on this forum will argue the same thing, that they all get their beliefs from the scriptures?
John 17:3 "This is eternal life, that they might know you (he was praying to the Father alone) The Only True God and Jesus the Christ whom you have sent".
John 5:26 "For just as The Father has life in himself, so he has given unto the Son to have life in himself also".
John 6:57 "For just as The Living Father has sent me and I live because of the Father, so he who eats of me shall live because of me".
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life".
John 3:17 "For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world but that the world through him might be saved"
Very clearly all of these verses reveal that God sent his Son so that the world through him might believe and be saved and have eternal life.
They also reveal that the reason why we receive eternal life from the Son, is because God gave the Son to have that life within himself and not only for himself but also for us who believe on him through his death and resurrection.
Notice also in John 6:57 above, Jesus said that he lives because of the Father in the same exact way (just as) that we will live also because of him if we receive his sacrifice for our sins, just as Rod.ney, just as!!!!
In other words, just as we receive our eternal life through Jesus and live because of Jesus as believers, likewise Jesus received his eternal life from God the Father and lives because of God the Father and has that life in himself to be able to give unto us likewise.
For that is exactly what he was saying in John 6:57 and which proves your doctrine as false also and actually these verses agree perfectly with 1 John 5:20 also.
1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.
Therefore the true God is the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ and our eternal life therefore comes from the Father through his Son Jesus Christ and just like the last words of the above verse reveal as well as all of the other verses that I also posted above.
All you are doing is revealing your own ignorance, confusion and misinterpretation of 1 John 5:20, for again, John was taught by Jesus and heard him pray what he did in John 17:3 well before he ever wrote his letters and therefore they cannot contradict what Jesus taught John nor what he heard him say in John 17:3 either and he isn't contradicting him either.And I posted where John also wrote that the Son of God is also the TRUE God ( because the ONE GOD is a TRINITY ) and here it is AS IS ( HWA )------------------- 1 John 2:20 -
1 John 5:20
New International Version
20 We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true by being in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.
And scripture also tells us Jesus is God. You just refuse to believe it.If you want as is scripture then post as is scripture... You cannot be posting your made-up rubbish about God-man. The scripture does tell us that Jesus was just a man... you refuse to believe it.
Hebrews 4:15
For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Romans 5:15
But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man
No, it is you ( not me ) that is revealing your own ignorance, confusion & misinterpretation of 1 John 5:20 because John 1:1 shows that He " was God " and was " with God " and the Father calls Him " O God " in Heb.1:8, just after He had all of His angels " WORSHIP Him " ( Jesus Christ ) in Heb.1:6! Angels will Never worship anyone OTHER THAN GOD! Jesus " was God " the Word in John 1:1 when He made/created those angels as per John 1:3/Col.1:16! So when ALL things were made/created through/by Him ( John 1:3/Col.1:116 ), He had to have EXISTED BEFORE CREATION and ONLY GOD ( FSHS - Matt.28:19 ) EXISED before creation! Case closed HWA!All you are doing is revealing your own ignorance, confusion and misinterpretation of 1 John 5:20, for again, John was taught by Jesus and heard him pray what he did in John 17:3 well before he ever wrote his letters and therefore they cannot contradict what Jesus taught John nor what he heard him say in John 17:3 either and he isn't contradicting him either.
Notice John is speaking of two individuals in 1 John 5:20, one is The true 'God and the same Only True God that Jesus revealed as the Father in John 17:3 and then Jesus his Son.
Now listen up, for we are in The True God, by being in his Son and we are in the Son when we repent and believe the gospel and when we are then are we also in the Father his God and ours, and therefore while the Father is The Only True God, it is the Father and the Son together through which we receive our eternal life.
That is all that John is saying in 1 John 5:20, for he makes a clear distinction between the True God and his Son in the passage and just like Jesus did in John 17:3 also.
You better get straight on this Rod.ney for the time is running short and there isn't going to be any pre trib rapture to save you either, for God is going to use the tribulation of the persecution of the church to separate false aesthetic "Christianity" from the genuine article.
Furthermore, in 1 Corinthians 15:22-26 and 51-58, Paul very clearly revealed that there will be no rapture of the church until every enemy of God involving sin and disobedience is first put under the feet of Jesus including sin in the believers and only then will the last enemy of death also be put under his feet so that there will be no more physical death for believers ever again.
We all die physically as believers even though we have a clean born again heart, because sin still dwells within us in our flesh and therefore only until the enemy of sin in our flesh is also put under the feet of Jesus, will we continue to die physically but when that enemy is finally put under the feet of Jesus with all of the others, then believers will no longer die physically ever again.
Read Paul's words again in 1 Corinthians 15:22-26 and 51-58, for this is the mystery he is speaking of and why we will not all die and it couldn't be any clearer or easier to understand either, but your false teachers have so corrupted the truth on this that most cannot even see what Paul is revealing in those passages but that will be their own downfall in the end.
FYI again, John 1:1+14 tells us He " Was God " and then became " Flesh " as the man Jesus Christ! So yes indeed God-Man since God the Word can NEVER cease to still be God when He makes that change by becoming INCARNATE as one of us! That's EXACTLY why God the Father called Him " O God " in Heb.1:8! The Father is NOT the one who is coming ( post Trib. ) in Rev.1:8! It is Jesus Christ in His Glorious Immortal Supernatural Flesh & Bone resurrection body to reign for 1000 years before the New earth with no seas gets created in Rev.21"! That verse clearly calls Him the ALMIGHTY! So case closed by this AS IS posted scripture -------------------------------------------If you want as is scripture then post as is scripture... You cannot be posting your made-up rubbish about God-man. The scripture does tell us that Jesus was just a man... you refuse to believe it.
Hebrews 4:15
For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Romans 5:15
But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man
Yes indeed His Son is part of the TRINITY - the TRUE GOD and He gives us ETERNAL life by ACCEPTING Him as or Lord God & Savior! Case closed as even Rev.1:8 calls Him ( The one who is to come - Post Trib. in Rev. 19:11-21 & 20:1-6 ) " the Almighty "!!!! ---------------------------Yeah sure Rod.ney and that is why you refuse to accept Jesus' own words on this below while you want to claim that he is your Lord.
By the way, do you know how many people on this forum will argue the same thing, that they all get their beliefs from the scriptures?
John 17:3 "This is eternal life, that they might know you (he was praying to the Father alone) The Only True God and Jesus the Christ whom you have sent".
John 5:26 "For just as The Father has life in himself, so he has given unto the Son to have life in himself also".
John 6:57 "For just as The Living Father has sent me and I live because of the Father, so he who eats of me shall live because of me".
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life".
John 3:17 "For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world but that the world through him might be saved"
Very clearly all of these verses reveal that God sent his Son so that the world through him might believe and be saved and have eternal life.
They also reveal that the reason why we receive eternal life from the Son, is because God gave the Son to have that life within himself and not only for himself but also for us who believe on him through his death and resurrection.
Notice also in John 6:57 above, Jesus said that he lives because of the Father in the same exact way (just as) that we will live also because of him if we receive his sacrifice for our sins, just as Rod.ney, just as!!!!
In other words, just as we receive our eternal life through Jesus and live because of Jesus as believers, likewise Jesus received his eternal life from God the Father and lives because of God the Father and has that life in himself to be able to give unto us likewise.
For that is exactly what he was saying in John 6:57 and which proves your doctrine as false also and actually these verses agree perfectly with 1 John 5:20 also.
1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.
Therefore the true God is the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ and our eternal life therefore comes from the Father through his Son Jesus Christ and just like the last words of the above verse reveal as well as all of the other verses that I also posted above.
John 17:3 "This is eternal life, that they might know you (Father) The Only True God and Jesus the Christ who you have sent".No, it is you ( not me ) that is revealing your own ignorance, confusion & misinterpretation of 1 John 5:20 because John 1:1 shows that He " was God " and was " with God " and the Father calls Him " O God " in Heb.1:8, just after He had all of His angels " WORSHIP Him " ( Jesus Christ ) in Heb.1:6! Angels will Never worship anyone OTHER THAN GOD! Jesus " was God " the Word in John 1:1 when He made/created those angels as per John 1:3/Col.1:16! So when ALL things were made/created through/by Him ( John 1:3/Col.1:116 ), He had to have EXISTED BEFORE CREATION and ONLY GOD ( FSHS - Matt.28:19 ) EXISED before creation! Case closed HWA!