Did one Person with divine nature forsake another Person with divine nature?

jamesh

Active member
So.......... are YOU able to answer this question either either YES or NO...

Did one Person with divine nature forsake another Person with divine nature?




I believe the pronoun “me” in Matthew 27:46 refers to “the man Christ Jesus” mentioned in 1 Timothy 2:5.

Do you agree?

1 Timothy 2:5... For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
I'm going to tell you why this question is so "stupid" just like many of your other "stupid" questions. Your "ASSUMING" that Jesus Christ was forsaken. The bottom line is the fact that He was not forsaken on that cross.

All you have to do is read Psalm 22 where King David was being hunted down by Saul and Saul was jealous of David's success. Going through the verses David says, "Many bulls have surrounded me." vs12. He says at vs10, "Thou has been my God from my mother's womb." Vs15, "My strength is dried up." Vs16, "Dogs have surrounded me."

Vs17, "I can count my bones." Vs19, "But Thou O Lord be not far off; O Thou my help hasten to my assistance." Vs20, "Deliver me from the sword." At vs22, David begins to praise the Lord." Also at vs25 David continues to praise the Lord." Why?

Because David "felt" like the Lord had forsaken him but God did not. In like manner Jesus Christ "felt" forsaken but He was not. John 16:32, "Behold, an hour is coming and has already come for you to be scattered, each to his own house, AND TO LEAVE ME ALONE; AND YET I AM NOT ALONE BECAUSE THE FATHER IS WITH ME." 2 Corinthians 5:19, "namely that GOD WAS IN CHRIST RECONCILLING THE WORLD TO HIMSELF."

There is not a Christian alive that has not thought at some point or in some situation felt the Lord had forsaken them where he felt alone. For me personally I experienced this many times when I was in Viet Nam is January of 1968 during the Tet offensive. It was horrible and all you could do was pray for deliverance. Well, my prayers were answered and the Lord did say, "I will never leave you nor forsake you."

As a side note? Do you know how I know the Lord answers prayers? It's when "reality" proves God right.

IN GOD THE SON,
james
 

Yahchristian

Well-known member
I'm going to tell you why this question is so "stupid" just like many of your other "stupid" questions. Your "ASSUMING" that Jesus Christ was forsaken. The bottom line is the fact that He was not forsaken on that cross.
In like manner Jesus Christ "felt" forsaken but He was not.

Check the OP, I was asking a TRINITARIAN to explain what THEY meant by THEIR use of the word “forsaken”.

But I will modify the question for YOU...

Did one Person with divine nature feel forsaken by another Person with divine nature?
 

aeg4971

Active member
But I believe the Father (with divine nature) was forsaking the Son (with human nature).

Are you able to answer YES or NO to the question...

Did one Person with divine nature forsake another Person with divine nature?

I say No.

A Divine Person is not with the Divine Nature but rather beneath standing, the underlying State in the Divine Nature.

Hence in and absolute sense of Divinity the answer is Yes, but in the relative sense of God emptied the answer is No. That is to say in God simplicity the answer is Yes, and yet in His Self Subsistence the answer is No.

...... Alan
 

aeg4971

Active member
Check the OP, I was asking a TRINITARIAN to explain what THEY meant by THEIR use of the word “forsaken”.

But I will modify the question for YOU...

Did one Person with divine nature feel forsaken by another Person with divine nature?

Forsaken in a Biblical and theological context is, to turn away, not physically leave. By your rendering, God was not actually Incarnate outside of your lip service.

....... Alan
 

CrowCross

Super Member
Check the OP, I was asking a TRINITARIAN to explain what THEY meant by THEIR use of the word “forsaken”.
God placed the sins of the world on Jesus and He experienced the manifestation of God’s hatred of sin. I'm sure there is more.

What did Jesus feel at that time? Do you know?
 

Yahchristian

Well-known member
A Divine Person is not with the Divine Nature but rather beneath standing, the underlying State in the Divine Nature.

Hence in and absolute sense of Divinity the answer is Yes, but in the relative sense of God emptied the answer is No. That is to say in God simplicity the answer is Yes, and yet in His Self Subsistence the answer is No.

Interesting.

I would have expected a YES AND NO Trinitarian answer to have been the opposite...

In the absolute sense of Divinity, NO, God the Father did not forsake Jesus as God.

In the relative sense of God, YES, God the Father forsook Jesus as Man.

Are there any other TRINITARIANS who are able to answer YES / NO / YES AND NO to the question...

Did one Person with divine nature forsake another Person with divine nature?
 

aeg4971

Active member
Interesting.

I would have expected a YES AND NO Trinitarian answer to have been the opposite...

In the absolute sense of Divinity, NO, God the Father did not forsake Jesus as God.

In the relative sense of God, YES, God the Father forsook Jesus as Man.

Are there any other TRINITARIANS who are able to answer YES / NO / YES AND NO to the question...

Did one Person with divine nature forsake another Person with divine nature?

In the sense that it is God manifested in the flesh by Word the answer is yes, and in the sense that a humble servant was talking to His God. The answer is No.

Your response is from the premise, The Father is the Spirit and the son is the flesh, which keeps you from properly perceiving.

Now ask me how many ways can I explain the same thing.

.......Alan
 
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CrowCross

Super Member
So..........

Are YOU able to answer this question either either YES or NO...

Did one Person with divine nature forsake another Person with divine nature?
I've already answered the question for you.

Why didn't you use the language the bible presented it in?

Jesus is Divine as well as the God in "my God, My God"....
 

Caroljeen

Well-known member
It was a YES or NO question.

Why are Trinitarians so reluctant to answer YES or NO questions with YES or NO ???

You can elaborate on your answer, but you should start by saying either YES or NO...

Did one Person with divine nature forsake another Person with divine nature?

I would like to hear from all the other Trinitarians on this forum as well.
Have you read the posts he linked yet?
 

Caroljeen

Well-known member
I defend PSA (penal substitionary atonement), which teaches that the punishment for sin is necessarily the wrath of God, in quite a few posts on the C/A forum.

I don't mean to spam, but if you are interested I have kind of a series defending PSA, which would logically entail your proposition.

I would invite you to interact with any of them in points of disagreement.











Are these in a specific order?
 

Dizerner

Well-known member
Have you read the posts he linked yet?

He doesn't care about what I think or say.

All he wants to do is to be able to spout "You confused Trinitarians can't answer my questions."

All the while turning the attention away from his own inconsistencies and doublespeak.

Are these in a specific order?

Yeah, I think they are in order from top to bottom of most thorough to shortest.
 

OldShepherd

Well-known member
But I believe the Father (with divine nature) was forsaking the Son (with human nature).
Are you able to answer YES or NO to the question...
Did one Person with divine nature forsake another Person with divine nature?
I say No.
My ¢¢ I do not believe that God ever actually forsook Jesus but I do think that Jesus had to experience the sense of being forsaken.
 

Yahchristian

Well-known member
When you make a statement about what "Trinitarians say/mean" quote someone who actually said that instead of talking about ghosts.

I did.

I quoted a Trinitarian in the OP.

My question concerned what they said.

What specific statement of mine were you referring to?
 

OldShepherd

Well-known member
I did.
I quoted a Trinitarian in the OP.
My question concerned what they said.

What specific statement of mine were you referring to?
I don't know about other people but I have found it very helpful to actually read a post before trying to respond. When I said "When you make a statement about what "Trinitarians say/mean" quote someone who actually said that instead of talking about ghosts." I was referring to this which you said in the post I quoted and was responding to. "Just to clarify what Trinitarians mean by “divine attributes“. One should not be required to remember something you said 30 or so posts earlier when replying to a post. Just sayin'.
 

OldShepherd

Well-known member
Interesting.
I would have expected a YES AND NO Trinitarian answer to have been the opposite...
In the absolute sense of Divinity, NO, God the Father did not forsake Jesus as God.
In the relative sense of God, YES, God the Father forsook Jesus as Man.
Are there any other TRINITARIANS who are able to answer YES / NO / YES AND NO to the question...
Did one Person with divine nature forsake another Person with divine nature?
Others have said this in different ways but you can't seem to grasp it. This is a "discussion forum" not a game show where contestants have to guess the right answer to questions. One person states a proposition. E.g. "There is one God. The Father is God but He is not the Son or the Holy Spirit. The Son is God but He is not the Father or the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is God but He is not the Son or the Father. There is one God." Then others may respond and agree or disagree with the proposition.
If you refuse to understand what Trinitarians believe concerning the Trinity may I recommend a good book "The Trinity: Evidence and Issues" by Robert Morey. In his book Morey addresses virtually every question or objection about the Trinity. His bibliography has 17 pages of sources he consulted about 10 sources per page. He quotes 479 scriptures, 40 Apocrypha and Apocalyptic books, 12 Dead Sea scrolls and 10 Talmudic texts.
I was introduced to this book about 20 years ago by a close relative who had been a staunch anti-Trinitarian. I was working in Korea. He wrote me once that almost everything I believed was pagan, Trinity, Christmas, Easter etc. After a period of time he wrote and said that I was right and he was wrong. He had gone into a Christian bookstore looking for more anti-Trinity "evidence" he could throw at me. He happened upon Morey's book. Read a little in it then did some more looking. He repeated this a few times. He left and came back the next day and did the same thing a few more times. He bought the book went home read it through 3 times. Then he wrote me telling me I was right etc.
 
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