Did Ravi Zacharias Persevere in the Faith or not?

[ReverendRV]

Am I the only person who saw this?

Someone in THIS thread claimed his own family said he wasn’t repentant, no source either.
His wife denies the allegations made against him.

Email From My Mom

My Mom recently sent an email to some friends and family that is being circulated. She’s since asked me to post it here to ensure it’s ongoing accuracy. Good am, Family. I love you all.…

defendingravi.wordpress.com

I don't know, I just don't know; but God does...

 

[4Him]

Anyone can Google the source, but thank you for providing a link that proves the point:

When Ravi learned his cancer had metastasized he said he was ready to meet the Lord. He had no regrets, he said, except that he would have to leave us behind. He had no fear of dying, of meeting the Lord. His conversations at the end when he was seeing things we couldn’t and talking to people we couldn’t see were not filled with angst or fear or guilt.​

What does it prove? His wife said she believes he’s innocent and questioned the investigation, so the quote you posted is from a believer confident in the Lord, it is NOT his family saying he was unrepentant since they don’t believe he was guilty.
His family didn’t say he was guilty and unrepentant as a poster claimed.

 

[guest1]

Am I the only person who saw this?

Someone in THIS thread claimed his own family said he wasn’t repentant, no source either.
His wife denies the allegations made against him.

Email From My Mom

My Mom recently sent an email to some friends and family that is being circulated. She’s since asked me to post it here to ensure it’s ongoing accuracy. Good am, Family. I love you all.…

defendingravi.wordpress.com

She is in denial and he didn't admit his sins to his family. Denial is a powerful drug on ones mental state of being. So now his widow is believing his lies, deception and its really sad to read that letter. Denial like in that letter is part of the grieving process which she is obviously in right now.s

Once again you may have the last word as this changes nothing that I've said in this thread. It actually makes my case.

Thanks for posting the letter.

hope this helps !!!

 

[eternomade]

Unconditional Election plays a part; in my opinion. Peter did exactly what it takes to violate Hebrews 6:4, but went on to become one of the three pillars of the early Church...

I understand this passage talking about the P in TULIP.

I havent read all the comments in this post, but many of them have been discouraging to read. Reminds me of the Catholic church a bit.

Whether Ravi is in heaven or hell, I don't know. Only God knows. I also have not read EVERYTHING in regards to what happened, so it would be unwise for me to speculate.

 

[eternomade]

Question; did Peter Repent before or after he disowned Jesus?

This is a good question. When you use the word "repent", are you referring to justification(God giving you grace) or ongoing repentance?

 

[4Him]

If you mean me, I never claimed his family said he was "guilty and unrepentant." Just one of those. I was aware that some of his family denied the allegations.

No, I didn’t mean you.

 

[4Him]

She is in denial and he didn't admit his sins to his family.

She addressed that claim too.

Denial is a powerful drug on ones mental state of being. So now his widow is believing his lies, deception and its really sad to read that letter. Denial like in that letter is part of the grieving process which she is obviously in right now.s

Once again you may have the last word as this changes nothing that I've said in this thread. It actually makes my case.

Thanks for posting the letter.

hope this helps !!!

Actually, it hurts your case.

 

[guest1]

She addressed that claim too.


Actually, it hurts your case.

No it helps as the evidence speaks for itself with all the victims. I stand by my comments that he was a genuine wolf in sheeps clothing and a false teacher. Jesus said you will know them by their fruits. And hypocrisy, lying, cheating, extortion( threatening financial loss is denied sexual favors), adultery, fornication, rape etc................ That was his rotten fruit he left behind for well over a decade of debauchery. Those who practice such things scripture says in many places shall not inherit the kingdom of God. I'll stick with the bibles criteria and warnings on the topic. The millstone also comes to mind for the MANY little ones he caused to stumble.

Matthew 7
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

1 Cor 6
Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Galatians 5
The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Eph 2
As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath

Titus 3:3
At one time we too were foolish, disobedient, deceived and enslaved by all kinds of passions and pleasures.

Hebrews 10:26-27
If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

hope this helps !!!

 

[4Him]

No it helps as the evidence speaks for itself with all the victims.

No it doesn't.

I stand by my comments that he was a genuine wolf in sheeps clothing and a false teacher.

Good for you. I stand by my comments that you are not being biblical by judging a church member after he's dead and has already faced Gods judgment...you will by judged by the standard by which you judge others.

Hope this helps!

 

[guest1]

No it doesn't.



Good for you. I stand by my comments that you are not being biblical by judging a church member after he's dead and has already faced Gods judgment...you will by judged by the standard by which you judge others.

Hope this helps!

where is this "so-called" exception found in scripture we can't examine ones life because they have died ?

 

[YeshuaFan]

Was Ravi a Wolf in Sheep's clothing, and Jesus never knew him; or was he like Saint Paul and he did things he didn't want to do?

I need to know...

Before he can sustain in the faith, had to have been really saved!

 

[4Him]

where is this "so-called" exception found in scripture we can't examines ones life because they died ?

Judgement of those in the church, church discipline, is for their CORRECTION, and to encourage repentance. Church discipline is to encourage restoration....can't do that if they're dead can you?
Your judgment of a dead man that has already been judged by God is not a biblical church correction. That you can't see this speaks volumes. You seem to miss the entire reason we judge those within the church.

 

[guest1]

Judgement of those in the church, church discipline, is for their CORRECTION, and to encourage repentance. Church discipline is to encourage restoration....can't do that if they're dead can you?
Your judgment of a dead man that has already been judged by God is not a biblical church correction. That you can't see this speaks volumes. You seem to miss the entire reason we judge those within the church.

No mine is actually biblical. Why did Jesus, Paul, Peter and others talk about dead cain and his sin ? or judas after he died, or any number of specific reprobates mentioned after they were dead in scripture ?

We sure can judge ones life by their fruits which is biblical whether or not they are dead or alive.

Your premise is faulty.

1 Cor 10
For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers and sisters, that our ancestors were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. 2 They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. 3 They all ate the same spiritual food 4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ. 5 Nevertheless, God was not pleased with most of them; their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.

6 Now these things occurred as examples to keep us from setting our hearts on evil things as they did. 7 Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written: “The people sat down to eat and drink and got up to indulge in revelry.” 8 We should not commit sexual immorality, as some of them did—and in one day twenty-three thousand of them died. 9 We should not test Christ, as some of them did—and were killed by snakes. 10 And do not grumble, as some of them did—and were killed by the destroying angel.

11 These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the culmination of the ages has come.

2 Peter 2:6
and if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing them to ashes, having made them an example to those who would live ungodly lives thereafter;

Hebrews 4:11
Therefore let us be diligent to enter that rest, so that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience



hope this helps !!!

 

[York]

We can and often do sin unintentionally and at times unknowingly.

Do we? Maybe you mean that we are so used to it that we don't recognize it as sin. Which is not quite the same as unknowing

There are two aspects to temptation: that which entices from the outside, ie, the tempter, and the particular aspect of lust or point of desire within us. At this point, we make a choice to entertain the temptation and thus act on it or reject it and guard our hearts.

Indeed. And I'm supposing you have deliberate habitual lusting (I dunno: say one time a month or something) on your account, for the sake of argument.

Or are you saying that it is not the man defined 'large scale' of his that forms your condemnation of Ravi but the habitual nature of it? In which case, you have no habitual, reoccurring sin?

All we have to adjudicate is the evidence of his duplicity and sexual escapades.

aka sin.

I cannot speak to the cry of his heart in the waning hours of his life, and I do not wish box in the grace God, but assuming that there was no “thief on the cross” event in which he confessed his sin to his wife and family and God

It would be interesting to separate your sin from Ravi's sin in someway before leaping to the conclusion that Ravi wasn't already a convert

Those born of God cannot continue their sinful behaviors with intentional, premeditated determination and expect to have a sacrifice for sin available to them, but only “a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.”

I don't see much difference between someone who follows the path down into say, sexual addiction, expressed via repeated lusting (held to be mild by you, I guess) and premeditated determination to be honest.

You are into some kind of man made degree. Whereas scripture doesn't really draw that distinction

 

[guest1]

Do we? Maybe you mean that we are so used to it that we don't recognize it as sin. Which is not quite the same as unknowing


Indeed. And I'm supposing you have deliberate habitual lusting (I dunno: say one time a month or something) on your account, for the sake of argument.

Or are you saying that it is not the man defined 'large scale' of his that forms your condemnation of Ravi but the habitual nature of it? In which case, you have no habitual, reoccurring sin?








aka sin.



It would be interesting to separate your sin from Ravi's sin in someway before leaping to the conclusion that Ravi wasn't already a convert




I don't see much difference between someone who follows the path down into say, sexual addiction, expressed via repeated lusting (held to be mild by you, I guess) and premeditated determination to be honest.

You are into some kind of man made degree. Whereas scripture doesn't really draw that distinction

So what about a professing Christian who died and we discovered was a serial killer for a decade plus prior to his death.

Is he going to heaven too ?

 

[eternomade]

Indeed. And I'm supposing you have deliberate habitual lusting (I dunno: say one time a month or something) on your account, for the sake of argument.

Or are you saying that it is not the man defined 'large scale' of his that forms your condemnation of Ravi but the habitual nature of it? In which case, you have no habitual, reoccurring sin?

My exact thoughts.

 

[eternomade]

So what about a professing Christian who died and we discovered was a serial killer for a decade plus prior to his death.

Is he going to heaven too ?

Yes, if he/she has been given grace. We don't know if Ravi was or was not given grace.

 

[guest1]

Yes, if he/she has been given grace. We don't know if Ravi was or was not given grace.

1 Cor 6 , Eph 2 , 1 John among other passages declares and such WERE some of you as in your previous life. Those who are born of God do not practice habitual sin and you will know them by their fruits. In this case are bushels and bushels of rotten fruit and corruption , indulgence and pleasures of every kind as a lifestyle.

Sorry but one cannot have their cake and eat it too.

 

[eternomade]

1 Cor 6 , Eph 2 , 1 John among other passages declares and such WERE some of you as in your previous life. Those who are born of God do not practice habitual sin and you will know them by their fruits. In this case are bushels and bushels of rotten fruit and corruption , indulgence and pleasures of every kind as a lifestyle.

Sorry but one cannot have their cake and eat it too.

How do you know he was "practicing habitual sin"? Maybe he did loathe his sin but struggled with it. Maybe God saved him right before he died o rmaybe God saved him years ago.

Paul says in 1 Timothy that he is "the formost sinner". Is Paul being literal here?

12 I thank him who has given me strength, Christ Jesus our Lord, because he judged me faithful, appointing me to his service, 13 though formerly I was a blasphemer, persecutor, and insolent opponent. But I received mercy because I had acted ignorantly in unbelief, 14 and the grace of our Lord overflowed for me with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus. 15 The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost. 16 But I received mercy for this reason, that in me, as the foremost, Jesus Christ might display his perfect patience as an example to those who were to believe in him for eternal life. 17 To the King of the ages, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.

 

[4Him]

No mine is actually biblical. Why did Jesus, Paul, Peter and others talk about dead cain and his sin ? or judas after he died, or any number of specific reprobates mentioned after they were dead in scripture ?

You know they were reprobates because scripture says as much.....you have no idea about this man you condemn.

You will be judged according to how you judge.

We sure can judge ones life by their fruits which is biblical whether or not they are dead or alive.

You can't judge ones eternal fate because you don't know, yet here you are....

Your premise is faulty.

No, it's not. Church discipline was for the reason I mentioned....never was are we told to judge a dead man that God has already judged.