McDowell and Murray on Ravi. Murray was a major leader in RIZM ministries.
Last edited by a moderator:
If you get a chance see my last video with Murray who is an executive staff insider with RZIM ministries being interviewed by Sean and Josh McDowell.I agree...
But all this was a shock to my System, that's why I started the Thread. I think that we all should be saying "But for the Grace of God go I"...
I've watched the first part. I've seen excerpts of this on an Atheist Video analyzing it, the Atheist was having a filed day...If you get a chance see my last video with Murray who is an executive staff insider with RZIM ministries being interviewed by Sean and Josh McDowell.
no, more that real salvation means that we shall finish in a good way!So, are you saying salvation is dependent upon the way we live?
How do you know if you are doing enough good works?
that part is iondeed true, but what is unknown to us is if he was really ever saved!
The difficult thing to reconcile is the lifestyle over several years of sexual abuse and covering it up with lies and deceit. Scripture talks about the practicing of habitual sin in several places in Paul and Johns writings and those who do such things will not enter the kingdom of God. Believers are marked by a character of righteousness not sin. And he did this justifying those actions to those victims saying they were doing the work of God by allowing them to fulfill his sexual desires. Also he did not confess and repent of those sins but denied them until his death. He showed no remorse for what he did to all those victims.
You have to consider OSAS.The difficult thing to reconcile is the lifestyle over several years of sexual abuse and covering it up with lies and deceit. Scripture talks about the practicing of habitual sin in several places in Paul and Johns writings and those who do such things will not enter the kingdom of God. Believers are marked by a character of righteousness not sin. And he did this justifying those actions to those victims saying they were doing the work of God by allowing them to fulfill his sexual desires. Also he did not confess and repent of those sins but denied them until his death. He showed no remorse for what he did to all those victims.
1 John 2
We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. 4 Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person. 5 But if anyone obeys his word, love for God is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him: 6 Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did.
Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in them. 16 For everything in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—comes not from the Father but from the world. 17 The world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever.
1 John 3
No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.
7 Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 8 The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. 9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. 10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.
hope this helps !!!
Was the lifestyle marked by the fruit of the spirit or the deeds of the flesh ?You have to consider OSAS.
Either he was saved or not.
There still remains only one unforgivable sin.
Too many people try to promote a salvation that is dependent on self, and not on the righteousness of Christ.
No one can condone any sin. I certainly cannot pick up the first stone.
Paul said the following:
15 Some indeed preach Christ from envy and rivalry, but others from good will. 16 The latter do it out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. 17 The former proclaim Christ out of rivalry, not sincerely but thinking to afflict me in my imprisonment. 18 What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is proclaimed, and in that I rejoice.
The devil will not lead someone to salvation, it is against his nature, he uses false teachings to delude many. Not sure if Ravi lead people away from Christ to a false christ.... perhaps if the allegations of rape is true, his victims?
It is set in stone for me that those who are held in the palm of the Lord will not be snatched away.
So either his preaching was just about his "image" and he was never saved, or he was saved and still is saved.
I agree with these scriptures. Your stance therefore is that he was never saved.Was the lifestyle marked by the fruit of the spirit or the deeds of the flesh ?
The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery;20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit(AI) of the Spirit is love,joy, peace,forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control.Against such things there is no law.24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit,let us keep in step with the Spirit.
Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’will enter the kingdom of heaven,(R)but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!
hope this helps !!!
Agreed and Paul said below:I agree with these scriptures. Your stance therefore is that he was never saved.
My question is whether any one person came to faith by listening to him preach. (I don't know)
If someone genuinely did, then God used even him, saved or not.
I understand your response. Did you have a question though? I do see questions in your post but wasnt sure if they were rhetorical.I absolutely believe the Bible supports this. It is wall-eyed vision to insist that any action at all means you merited it. I have some posts on that.
Ask the Holy Spirit if you are lukewarm, read and pray over the warnings of the Bible. A cold and unbelieving heart drifting away from God is not a sign you are trying to earn salvation by works.
I challenge anyone to go on a 3 day fast and pray and read only Revelation 1-3 and ask God as sincerely as a person can, "Can these passages really be made to fit determinism and eternal security?"
Jesus says, "I know your works." What do you think Jesus knows? If any condition at all meant salvation by works, how come I can be secure in grace and still know I can reject Christ if I wanted?
It's a lie from the pit of hell, and it takes a few promises from the Bible and demands it overrides every warning and prohibition. Determinism and eternal security are doctrines of demons.
I agree. He did not preach the true gospel. Only God knows if he believed in the 1 true gospel.