Its not really how we start the race, but how we finish it!
Did Ravi Zacharias Persevere in the Faith or not?
- Thread starter ReverendRV
- Start date
Guess just shows that having great head knowledge avails little without it being applied from the heart!
eternomade
Well-known member
Explain this please.
We are to be found faithful in the end, as many srat out on fire for the Lord, and then just go back to living as before!
eternomade
Well-known member
So, are you saying salvation is dependent upon the way we live?
How do you know if you are doing enough good works?
Dizerner
Well-known member
I absolutely believe the Bible supports this. It is wall-eyed vision to insist that any action at all means you merited it. I have some posts on that.
Ask the Holy Spirit if you are lukewarm, read and pray over the warnings of the Bible. A cold and unbelieving heart drifting away from God is not a sign you are trying to earn salvation by works.
I challenge anyone to go on a 3 day fast and pray and read only Revelation 1-3 and ask God as sincerely as a person can, "Can these passages really be made to fit determinism and eternal security?"
Jesus says, "I know your works." What do you think Jesus knows? If any condition at all meant salvation by works, how come I can be secure in grace and still know I can reject Christ if I wanted?
It's a lie from the pit of hell, and it takes a few promises from the Bible and demands it overrides every warning and prohibition. Determinism and eternal security are doctrines of demons.
ReverendRV
Well-known member
It appears that Ravi has rolled the Dice and bet on Salvation by Grace Alone through Faith Alone in Christ Alone...
One way or another, we WILL find out if he was right...
One way or another, we WILL find out if he was right...
no, more that real salvation means that we shall finish in a good way!
that part is iondeed true, but what is unknown to us is if he was really ever saved!
Dizerner
Well-known member
Yea, let's make eternity a crapshoot because we're too lazy to seek God for answers here.
ReverendRV
Well-known member
civic
Well-known member
The difficult thing to reconcile is the lifestyle over several years of sexual abuse and covering it up with lies and deceit. Scripture talks about the practicing of habitual sin in several places in Paul and Johns writings and those who do such things will not enter the kingdom of God. Believers are marked by a character of righteousness not sin. And he did this justifying those actions to those victims saying they were doing the work of God by allowing them to fulfill his sexual desires. Also he did not confess and repent of those sins but denied them until his death. He showed no remorse for what he did to all those victims.
1 John 2
We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. 4 Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person. 5 But if anyone obeys his word, love for God is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him: 6 Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did.
Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in them. 16 For everything in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—comes not from the Father but from the world. 17 The world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever.
1 John 3
No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.
7 Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 8 The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. 9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. 10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.
hope this helps !!!
Manfred
Well-known member
You have to consider OSAS.
Either he was saved or not.
There still remains only one unforgivable sin.
Too many people try to promote a salvation that is dependent on self, and not on the righteousness of Christ.
No one can condone any sin. I certainly cannot pick up the first stone.
Paul said the following:
15 Some indeed preach Christ from envy and rivalry, but others from good will. 16 The latter do it out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. 17 The former proclaim Christ out of rivalry, not sincerely but thinking to afflict me in my imprisonment. 18 What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is proclaimed, and in that I rejoice.
The devil will not lead someone to salvation, it is against his nature, he uses false teachings to delude many. Not sure if Ravi lead people away from Christ to a false christ.... perhaps if the allegations of rape is true, his victims?
It is set in stone for me that those who are held in the palm of the Lord will not be snatched away.
So either his preaching was just about his "image" and he was never saved, or he was saved and still is saved.
civic
Well-known member
Was the lifestyle marked by the fruit of the spirit or the deeds of the flesh ?
Galatians 5
The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery;20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit(AI) of the Spirit is love,joy, peace,forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control.Against such things there is no law.24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit,let us keep in step with the Spirit.
Matthew 7
Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’will enter the kingdom of heaven,(R)but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!
hope this helps !!!
Manfred
Well-known member
I agree with these scriptures. Your stance therefore is that he was never saved.
My question is whether any one person came to faith by listening to him preach. (I don't know)
If someone genuinely did, then God used even him, saved or not.
civic
Well-known member
Agreed and Paul said below:
Philippians 1
It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill.16 The latter do so out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel.17 The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains.18 But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.
Yes, and I will continue to rejoice,
eternomade
Well-known member
I understand your response. Did you have a question though? I do see questions in your post but wasnt sure if they were rhetorical.
eternomade
Well-known member
I agree. He did not preach the true gospel. Only God knows if he believed in the 1 true gospel.
If I was to judge Ravi(on whether he was saved), I would not look to his outward works in his life but rather what gospel he preached.
Galatians 1
6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.
10 For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ.
eternomade
Well-known member
So, how do you know if you finish in a good way?
I plan on finishing my life as a sinner saved by the grace of God.
“If your preaching of the gospel of God's free grace in Jesus Christ does not provoke the charge from some of antinomianism, you're not preaching the gospel of the free grace of God in Jesus Christ.” ― David Martyn Lloyd-Jones
ReverendRV
Well-known member
Please give me an example of the Gospel Ravi Zacharias preached, because I'm not aware he preached another gospel...
civic
Well-known member
My thoughts as well but I have not researched that aspect of his ministry.