Did Ravi Zacharias Persevere in the Faith or not?

[Our Lord's God]

Was Ravi a Wolf in Sheep's clothing, and Jesus never knew him; or was he like Saint Paul and he did things he didn't want to do?

Jesus already told you. Weren't you listening?

I need to know...

16 You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? 17 So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 So then, you will know them by their fruits.

 

[Mike McK]

So if I start sleeping with the new flavor of the month from now until I die with a different woman snd have affairs I’m still going to heaven when I live like an adulterer for 20 plus years and die in that state of a practicing adulterer correct ?

I see reading comprehension isn't one of your talents. All I said is that his doctrine was sound.

 

[guest1]

I see reading comprehension isn't one of your talents. All I said is that his doctrine was sound.

Agree about doctrine but disagree with your comprehension comment.

 

[Mike McK]

Agree about doctrine but disagree with your comprehension comment.

Disagree all you like. The bottom line is, I didn't say anything like what you claimed.

 

[Timket]

Was Ravi a Wolf in Sheep's clothing, and Jesus never knew him; or was he like Saint Paul and he did things he didn't want to do?

I'd say, God sits on the Throne of Judgment, not me. He will judge Ravi rightly, so I'm not about to take that position from Him.

I need to know...

I actually don't believe we do. God will take care of judgment. And He knows all the circumstances of every soul that we're unaware of. Our job is to "Work out our salvation with fear and trembling."

 

[4Him]

Tell me where I am incorrect in my statement; scripture does not speak of meticulous determination. I read about it from Confessions of Faith:


Chapter 3: Of God's Decree1._____ God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass; ...


Chapter III - Of God’s Eternal Decree. i. God, from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass: ...

Why are you changing the subject...you brought up 'flavors', yet you cant' tell me which one you're talking about.

 

[Mike McK]

I'd say, God sits on the Throne of Judgment, not me. He will judge Ravi rightly, so I'm not about to take that position from Him.

I agree with you, but there are two different issues at play.

The question was about Ravi's doctrine, which we not only can judge, but should judge.

But now, because of information that's come out after his death, I think that's where we get into foul territory with the judging.

We know that the things he's accused of are sins and wrong. But we don't know what happened, whether Ravi actually did these things, or what the circumstances were (and that only makes a marginal difference, anyway).

Ravi, being a minister of the Gospel, is held to a higher standard, but because he died before he could defend himself, before church discipline could be carried out, and, most importantly, before he had the opportunity of restoration, I think it's best that we just leave this one to God and trust that, either way, God will judge him justly.

I actually don't believe we do. God will take care of judgment. And He knows all the circumstances of every soul that we're unaware of. Our job is to "Work out our own salvation with fear and trembling."

Agreed. It's hard for me to judge, knowing my own sins.

 

[guest1]

I agree with you, but there are two different issues at play.

The question was about Ravi's doctrine, which we not only can judge, but should judge.

But now, because of information that's come out after his death, I think that's where we get into foul territory with the judging.

We know that the things he's accused of are sins and wrong. But we don't know what happened, whether Ravi actually did these things, or what the circumstances were (and that only makes a marginal difference, anyway).

Ravi, being a minister of the Gospel, is held to a higher standard, but because he died before he could defend himself, before church discipline could be carried out, and, most importantly, before he had the opportunity of restoration, I think it's best that we just leave this one to God and trust that, either way, God will judge him justly.

Agreed. It's hard for me to judge, knowing my own sins.

The facts are he lived a life of deceit and lies and was unfaithful yo his wife for 20 plus years.

It’s called a lifestyle of sin , practicing sin and those who practice adulterer and fornication shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

In fact God commands we judge those in the church and Hod judges those outside .

edit divisive comments

References provided upon request for every word spoken above.

hope this helps !!!

 

[4Him]

The facts are he lived a life of deceit and lies and was unfaithful yo his wife for 20 plus years.

It’s called a lifestyle of sin , practicing sin and those who practice adulterer and fornication shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

In fact God commands we judge those in the church and Hod judges those outside .

Learn your Bible .

References provided upon request for every word spoken above.

hope this helps !!!

God doesn't command we judge those in the church after they are dead. What good is does that do? He's already been judged by God.

 

[Mike McK]

The facts are he lived a life of deceit and lies and was unfaithful yo his wife for 20 plus years.
It’s called a lifestyle of sin , practicing sin and those who practice adulterer and fornication shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

In fact God commands we judge those in the church and Hod judges those outside .

He also commands us to judge justly.

References provided upon request for every word spoken above.

No one's arguing that the Bible doesn't say that. I'm arguing against your application of those verses.

hope this helps !!!

Not really. Childish insults never help. They just make you look bad.

 

[Mike McK]

God doesn't command we judge those in the church after they are dead. What good is does that do? He's already been judged by God.

I agree. What would be the point of judging him now? There's no opportunity for church discipline or restoration.

He's in God's courtroom and I'm confident God will do a much better job judging him than me, and certainly better than Civic.

 

[4Him]

I agree. What would be the point of judging him now? There's no opportunity for church discipline or restoration.

He's in God's courtroom and I'm confident God will do a much better job judging him than me, and certainly better than Civic.

Agreed.

 

[guest1]

I agree. What would be the point of judging him now? There's no opportunity for church discipline or restoration.

He's in God's courtroom and I'm confident God will do a much better job judging him than me, and certainly better than Civic.

So if I were to start cheating on my wife of 35 years with numerous men over a 30 year period in secret and die unrepentant I’m going to heaven.

Is that your position because “ you are afraid to judge” me ?

 

[Mike McK]

So if I were to start cheating on my wife of 35 years with numerous men over a 30 year period in secret and die unrepentant I’m going to heaven.

How would I know you died unrepentant? How would I know what you did in secret?

 

[4Him]

So if I were to start cheating on my wife of 35 years with numerous men over a 30 year period in secret and die unrepentant I’m going to heaven.

Is that your position because “ you are afraid to judge” me ?

Seriously? You don’t know if he was repentant or not, so why would you even say that out loud?

 

[guest1]

Seriously? You don’t know if he was repentant or not, so why would you even say that out loud?

I’m asking about me

 

[4Him]

I’m asking about me

How would we know if YOU died unrepentant?

 

[guest1]

How would I know you died unrepentant? How would I know what you did in secret?

What do these passages mean ?

1 Cor 5
Your boasting is not good.(I) Don’t you know that a little yeast(J) leavens the whole batch of dough?(K) 7 Get rid of the old yeast, so that you may be a new unleavened batch—as you really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed.(L) 8 Therefore let us keep the Festival, not with the old bread leavened with malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread(M) of sincerity and truth.

9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate(N)with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the people of this world(O) who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11 But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister[c](P) but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater(Q) or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.(R)

12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside(S) the church? Are you not to judge those inside?(T) 13 God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Was Ravi a Wolf in Sheep's clothing, and Jesus never knew him; or was he like Saint Paul and he did things he didn't want to do?

I need to know...

But you never will know, till you get there yourself.

 

[guest1]

I think we'd all admit there is a slight chance Ravi repented on his death bed. I can't describe how I wish it were true, he felt like a father to me.

But since we have no open record of his repentance we have good reason to assume (without absolute knowledge) his fate.

According to his family and ministry partners he died with his sins and never admitted to any of it with them. And the way he used God to lure women was despicable.