Did Ravi Zacharias Persevere in the Faith or not?

ReverendRV

Well-known member

Demas: Infatuated with This Age​

And then there’s Demas. Twice we hear from Paul that he is a faithful partner in gospel work alongside Paul.


  • Colossians 4:14: “Luke the beloved physician greets you, as does Demas.” He greets you.
  • Philemon 23–24: “Epaphras . . . sends greetings to you, and so do Mark, Aristarchus, Demas, and Luke, my fellow workers.” Demas is ranked as a fellow worker in the gospel alongside Luke, of all people.
And then, in his last letter, in 2 Timothy 4:10, come these horrible words: “Demas, in love with this present age, has deserted me and gone to Thessalonica.” So, it appears that, for several years, Demas was a trusted gospel partner with Paul, just like Judas was with Jesus. And during that time, there’s no reason to think that he didn’t preach the gospel truly and that people came to faith, along with coming to faith through Paul’s preaching. Otherwise, Paul would have sent him home like he did John Mark (Acts 15:37–39). “You go home; you’re not ready, Demas.” And he never did that.


But there came a time when Demas’s true colors were revealed — namely, what he really loved. It was not true spiritual reality, but only what this age was offering him through religious work: things like association with notable people, access to money, experiences of power, accolades for eloquence, commendations for courage. There are plenty of worldly pleasures to be had doing so-called “otherworldly work.” But Demas decided to stop playing the game, and he abandoned Paul.

This answers it well...
As Calvinists, what should we be preaching to the Church then?
 

civic

Well-known member
Would agree that the fruit did deem to be really rotton!
Ones character reveals if one has good fruit or bad(rotten fruit ) marked by the fruit of the spirit or the deeds of the flesh as per Galatians 5:19-22. You will know them by their fruits declared Jesus. Ones profession needs to align with ones character. If not there is a disconnect between the mind(intellect) and the heart. They use to say the difference between heave and hell is only 18 inches, the distance between the mind and the heart.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Here is one I just pulled from Youtube.


TBH, I don't listen to Ravi, and never really have. Only a handful of clips(which may be designed to make him look bad). The gospel presented above is concerning, especially the end.

I do hope that God saved him, but I dont know.
Yes, it seems that presentation falls a little short of describing the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I won't argue against this as his version of the Gospel; though another Video could show something better. I do think it shows us that Ravi wanted to distance himself from the standard Gospel...

For one reason or the other...
 

civic

Well-known member
The gospel according to Jesus - If anyone is ( willing) to come after Me, he must deny himself ,take up his cross and follow Me.

The intellect doesn't save the pharisees had intellect and knew Gods law but their heart and will was absent. Jesus always went the the heart of the matter with everyone and exposed what held them back from following Him. He made sure that to be His disciple one must deny themselves- die to self and live for Him exclusively as Lord.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Concerning my Gospel Tract book, I think it can help. A Daily Devotional with the Law of God and Deliverance through the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Of course I don't mean getting Saved every day, but I do mean the Gospel is for every day Christians; every day. Shod your feet with the Gospel of Peace; do you put on the Armor of God every morning? Then you preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ to yourself every morning! We see that the Gospel is for Christians too (Ravi?); even if they've been Saved for 50 years...

The Gospel of Peace with God ~ by Reverend RV

Ephesians 6:15 NKJV; and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

Our Verse describes part of the Armor of God. You ask, “What’s the Armor of God?” It’s God’s supply to Christians, specifically our armament for spiritual warfare. The Armor is comprised of ‘the Belt of Truth, the Breastplate of Righteousness, the Gospel of Peace, the Shield of Faith, the Helmet of Salvation, and the Sword of the Spirit’. You ask, “Spiritual warfare?? What’s that?” God Created the world and Mankind fell into Sin by breaking the one and only Law God had given at the time. Later, God gave Israel the Ten Commandments by making a Covenant with them through the Prophet Moses. The people said, “And if we are careful to obey all this Law before the LORD our God, as he has Commanded us, that will be our Righteousness." But the bad news is that they couldn’t earn this Righteousness; because they were born as Sinners. Do you think you could do better than they did? Have you ever told a Lie? Have you kept God’s Sabbath? Have you ever Coveted? Did you know Jesus said Lust is Adultery and Hatred is Murder?

What you need is access to the Armor of God. If Israel actually keep their word, and upheld the Ten Commandments; they would be Righteous. In all history, there have only been three people who had a real chance of doing this; Adam, Eve; and Jesus Christ. ~ Adam and Eve Struck out; when the last person Strikes out in the bottom of the 9th inning, it’s over. But Jesus came off the bench and won the game for you with a walk off home run! He kept the Ten Commandments all his Life and never Sinned; he earned the human Righteousness that Israel promised God. If you are on his Team, even though you strike out, you’re a winner; you won’t go to Hell for your many Sins. ~ This is how you get on Christ’s Team; by the Grace of God through Faith in Jesus as your Risen Lord and Savior; not by Works, but by being benched before you strike out the game. Place your Faith in Jesus, and his shed blood will cover your Sins. Repent and find a local Church that will teach you the Bible and help you be thoroughly equipped to win…

The Armor of God helps us to stand against the evil one. Preachers often teach the Armor of God is part of our defense, but I want to tell you about its use for going on the offense. The Gospel of Peace is like a pair of sports shoes; we’re blessed and able to stand firm like a Golfer wearing his spikes. But the Gospel of Peace is more like a pair of cleats; made for offense. The Bible asks us how beautiful are the feet of the person who ‘goes’ to preach. When you put on the Armor of God you are now better equipped to play the game and steal a base. ~ We find that the Gospel isn’t just for the Lost but is also for those who have been Saved for years! Blessed is the man who walks not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor stands in the path of Sinners; nor sits in the seat of the scornful. The Gospel of Peace with God is only good for you; if all you do is stand. Do you put on the Armor of God and just stand around? Blessed is the man who doesn’t sit in the Stands while his feet are clad with Cleats. ~ Ready, Set; Go! Ready, Set; Go!!!

Hebrews 12:1 NIV; Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us,
 
Last edited:

ReverendRV

Well-known member
What do you mean by the above? I must be missing context to this or something...
I really don't know what I mean; a little help is welcomed...

I considered Ravi to be a Born Again Christian, and it hit me hard when he was outed. I suppose I meant that Ravi didn't need a 'father Confessor' but went directly to the 'Son Confessor'/Jesus with his Repentance. I mean he rested in his Eternal Security...
 
Last edited:

preacher4truth

Well-known member
I really don't know what I mean; a little help is welcomed...

I considered Ravi to be a Born Again Christian, and it hit me hard when he was outed. I suppose I meant that Ravi didn't need a 'father Confessor' but went directly to the 'Son Confessor'/Jesus with his Repentance. I mean he rested in his Eternal Security...
I see. I wasn't a huge fan of Ravi simply for the fact he rarely engaged in Scripture, and his message (to me at least) seemed to stand more in the wisdom of man instead of in the power of God according to its basis. 1 Corinthians 2:5.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
I see. I wasn't a huge fan of Ravi simply for the fact he rarely engaged in Scripture, and his message (to me at least) seemed to stand more in the wisdom of man instead of in the power of God according to its basis. 1 Corinthians 2:5.
I'm leaning toward him never being Saved. But as a Calvinist, I was wondering how he could know what he knew since the things of God are Spiritually Discerned...
 

preacher4truth

Well-known member
I'm leaning toward him never being Saved. But as a Calvinist, I was wondering how he could know what he knew since the things of God are Spiritually Discerned...
He may have known them intellectually, but 1 Corinthians 2:14 talks about "receiving the things of the Spirit" so the question is, did he receive them? Of course, that is all done and over with at this juncture.

I recently read the book "Apostasy from the Gospel" by John Owen. While reading it I was impressed with how well I was comprehending his work, then saw on the cover it was abridged. :sneaky: 😂

So I got the unabridged version, harder read, but an excellent read (I followed along in the abridged version, which left out a lot of subject matter by the way.)

John Owen stated something which got me thinking. As per 2 Thessalonians 2:10, he equated those who "did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved" as professing believers.
 

YeshuaFan

Well-known member
He may have known them intellectually, but 1 Corinthians 2:14 talks about "receiving the things of the Spirit" so the question is, did he receive them? Of course, that is all done and over with at this juncture.

I recently read the book "Apostasy from the Gospel" by John Owen. While reading it I was impressed with how well I was comprehending his work, then saw on the cover it was abridged. :sneaky: 😂

So I got the unabridged version, harder read, but an excellent read (I followed along in the abridged version, which left out a lot of subject matter by the way.)

John Owen stated something which got me thinking. As per 2 Thessalonians 2:10, he equated those who "did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved" as professing believers.
Think that he fits exactly those Apostle John referred to as being among the saved but not being saved!
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Many can state what the scriptures teach but do not actually believe that is the truth!
I have reconciled it as the things of God can be Soulishly understood, but are intimately known Spiritually. The Trichotomy of the Being; the Soul understanding these things leaves us without an excuse, but our Regenerated Spirit is intimate with the things of God...
 

YeshuaFan

Well-known member
I have reconciled it as the things of God can be Soulishly understood, but are intimately known Spiritually. The Trichotomy of the Being; the Soul understanding these things leaves us without an excuse, but our Regenerated Spirit is intimate with the things of God...
Someone like Rudolph Bultman could explain what the scriptures state but not believe anything literally true!
 

preacher4truth

Well-known member
Was Ravi a Wolf in Sheep's clothing, and Jesus never knew him; or was he like Saint Paul and he did things he didn't want to do?

I need to know...
I think the answer is found in asking did he practice sin?

1 John 3:9 "No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God."

Practicing sin can be described and explained as "setting up shop" to sin. Or ones "practice, or business." If one is flying around the world and has this mistress, and that mistress, misspends funds, masseuse mistress here, and there, and purchases one a home (as a hush attempt?) that might just be setting up one's life and affairs to practice sin. Of course I am only basing this on things that had been reported about him.
 

Dizerner

Well-known member
I think the answer is found in asking did he practice sin?

1 John 3:9 "No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God."

Practicing sin can be described and explained as "setting up shop" to sin. Or ones "practice, or business." If one is flying around the world and has this mistress, and that mistress, misspends funds, masseuse mistress here, and there, and purchases one a home (as a hush attempt?) that might just be setting up one's life and affairs to practice sin. Of course I am only basing this on things that had been reported about him.

If salvation is truly NOT by works in any sense, why does any AMOUNT of sin matter?

As if "little" sins were somehow "okay" to God because we just can't help it... by this definition I'm pretty sure everyone practices sin and as soon as one has a besetting sin they can't overcome, it is making them feel like they can't be saved. What legalism.

The inconsistency of some theologies is truly baffling and can only be a blindness.

Many determinists want to have their "Lordship Salvation" cake but eat their "Salvation is of the Lord" cake as well. How to do? Well, just slap the label "reprobate" on anyone that just seems a little bit "too" sinful, and by gosh, they were never saved. So all the unconditionally saved can manifest certain conditions without being able to say they are truly necessary. Clever!

People don't fall away from God because their sin is too much, or too big for the Cross. It is because they allow the state of their heart to no longer receive freely offered grace into their lives, they are cut off from the vine. Truly no amount of sin is "too much" if grace is at work in them. We judge the tree the best we can externally, but no one can judge internally unless it's revealed.
 

civic

Well-known member
If salvation is truly NOT by works in any sense, why does any AMOUNT of sin matter?

As if "little" sins were somehow "okay" to God because we just can't help it... by this definition I'm pretty sure everyone practices sin and as soon as one has a besetting sin they can't overcome, it is making them feel like they can't be saved. What legalism.

The inconsistency of some theologies is truly baffling and can only be a blindness.

Many determinists want to have their "Lordship Salvation" cake but eat their "Salvation is of the Lord" cake as well. How to do? Well, just slap the label "reprobate" on anyone that just seems a little bit "too" sinful, and by gosh, they were never saved. So all the unconditionally saved can manifest certain conditions without being able to say they are truly necessary. Clever!

People don't fall away from God because their sin is too much, or too big for the Cross. It is because they allow the state of their heart to no longer receive freely offered grace into their lives, they are cut off from the vine. Truly no amount of sin is "too much" if grace is at work in them. We judge the tree the best we can externally, but no one can judge internally unless it's revealed.
I’ll address your strawman after work tonight . I can’t wait !
 
Top