Did Ravi Zacharias Persevere in the Faith or not?

YeshuaFan

Well-known member
Yes, but who? Hyper Calvinists?

Antimonianism was condemned by Paul in Romans 6.

6 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? 3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
I see this more common among those who deny we can be eternally secure, as they by their works basis want to make sure we assist the Lord to save us!
 

eternomade

Well-known member
I see this more common among those who deny we can be eternally secure, as they by their works basis want to make sure we assist the Lord to save us!
Ok, now I am just more confused.

At first you said this was typical among those who believe OSAS, but now you're saying its common among those who deny we can be eternally secure, who rely on their own works for salvation.

I don't know anyone or any denomination that is antimonian, just people who throw that word around and misrepresent the Reformed "denomination".
 

preacher4truth

Well-known member
Seems to be the problem Paul was dealing with in his time, as saved were telling him we should just lived more as sinners in order to haved grace of God abound more towards us!
I think it may be rather that the unsaved were mocking Paul as teaching such, since they were slandering him with this false teaching:

"And why not do evil that good may come?—as some people slanderously charge us with saying. Their condemnation is just." - Romans 3:8
 

Johnnybgood

Well-known member
No, he's burning in hell, and I was deeply touched by his ministry; it was a huge shock to find him out he was a Judas.

I do believe he was called and at one time regenerate, but there is no way he can have zero repentance and his faith be sincere.

All forms of eternal security do not match the Bible, you can't take a thousand warnings and use one passage on security to override them.
That is for God to decide about his eternal destiny so why would you make that judgment ? What is the cutoff line on how many sins qualify a person for hell ?
 

Dizerner

Well-known member
That is for God to decide about his eternal destiny so why would you make that judgment ? What is the cutoff line on how many sins qualify a person for hell ?

It's true brother, I can only make my best guess.

Hitler could be saved for all I know, but somewhere we have to judge the tree by the fruit even when we don't ultimately know the heart, to preach righteousness and not commend a sinful lifestyle.

I may be wrong, I'm a fallible human, and if you read on in this thread you will see some more mollifying thoughts.

However, if he really perpetrated what he is accused of, I don't have to know the exact line, to condemn the behavior. It is a logical fallacy to say that if I can't describe the exact degree that leads to apostasy, therefore apostasy is impossible.

I hope you can see I don't want to be harsh or presumptuous, simply stand for what is right.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
That is for God to decide about his eternal destiny so why would you make that judgment ? What is the cutoff line on how many sins qualify a person for hell ?
Welcome to CARM...

Gadgeteer used to Rail against Calvinism and Eternal security; until he encountered Righteous Lot. To Gadgeteer, it was unfathomable that Lot could have ever made it to Heaven; after this revelation, he left CARM Forums...

We do not know where Ravi is, but there are clues. What if he will be likewise known as 'Righteous Ravi'?
 

Dizerner

Well-known member
Welcome to CARM...

Gadgeteer used to Rail against Calvinism and Eternal security; until he encountered Righteous Lot. To Gadgeteer, it was unfathomable that Lot could have ever made it to Heaven; after this revelation, he left CARM Forums...

We do not know where Ravi is, but there are clues. What if he will be likewise known as 'Righteous Ravi'?

Was he tormented in his righteous soul, as Lot was, or did he in fact like his sin "from day to day."

for that righteous man, dwelling among them, tormented his righteous soul from day to day by seeing and hearing their lawless deeds (2Pe 2:8 NKJ)​

God will forgive a crappy, compromising Christian, I know... I was one. But he let me know in no uncertain terms there ARE lines to be crossed.

And if you are a "squeaker" Christian, squeaking into heaven, although God knows why you would play around with your one soul, what a painful entry into heaven, knowing you cost Jesus everything yet lose the rewards for his chastising. That may be good news for you, but it is sad news for Jesus.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Was he tormented in his righteous soul, as Lot was, or did he in fact like his sin "from day to day."

for that righteous man, dwelling among them, tormented his righteous soul from day to day by seeing and hearing their lawless deeds (2Pe 2:8 NKJ)​

God will forgive a crappy, compromising Christian, I know... I was one. But he let me know in no uncertain terms there ARE lines to be crossed.

And if you are a "squeaker" Christian, squeaking into heaven, although God knows why you would play around with your one soul, what a painful entry into heaven, knowing you cost Jesus everything yet lose the rewards for his chastising. That may be good news for you, but it is sad news for Jesus.
I understand...

But what did-in Gadgeteer was what happened AFTER Sodom. To him, since the Bible doesn't tell us his Soul was in torment afterwards; Lot should have Lost his Salvation. I'm not saying Gadgeteer was right, but I'm saying that I used his supposition against him...

So; if Lot's Soul was tortured while he continued in the 'Way of Sodom' after Sodom fell, might Ravi have also been tormented in his soul while he was in the Way of Sodom too?
 
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Dizerner

Well-known member
So; if Lot's Soul was tortured while he continued in the Way of Sodom, might Ravi have also been tormented in his soul?

I'm not sure the allegations are even true.

If they are, I hope to God he was crying out in repentance and effort to free himself from sin. My own father was in the bondage of pornography when he died, but I know for a fact he was seeking deliverance to some extent, he wasn't just relishing his sin knowing Jesus was a heaven card in his back pocket no matter what. It won't work. God knows.

Reminds me of an old poem I wrote once:

Every time you cross the line
the line is blurred some more,
and every time you say, “That's fine!",
there ain't no line, no more.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
I'm not sure the allegations are even true.

If they are, I hope to God he was crying out in repentance and effort to free himself from sin. My own father was in the bondage of pornography when he died, but I know for a fact he was seeking deliverance to some extent, he wasn't just relishing his sin knowing Jesus was a heaven card in his back pocket no matter what. It won't work. God knows.

Reminds me of an old poem I wrote once:

Every time you cross the line
the line is blurred some more,
and every time you say, “That's fine!",
there ain't no line, no more.
I liked @preacher4truth 's Post which talked about "Setting up Shop" to Sin. That sways me toward Ravi being a Wolf in Sheep's clothing. It's very helpful...
 

Dizerner

Well-known member

The wife and son do not deny the incriminating emails were his, even if every single eye witness testimony was lying.

That seems pretty conclusive, and I think I can rest my thoughts on this case.
 
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