Did Ravi Zacharias Persevere in the Faith or not?

PeanutGallery

Well-known member
How soon you forget what you said just this morning....

PeanutGallery said:
There it is again; Calvinism's Confession of Faith makes no mention of 'allow'
OK; thanks. Where do the 'Confessions of Faith' used in the C/A forum state a distinction between 'decree/ordain' and 'allow'?
...
There it is again; Calvinism's Confession of Faith makes no mention of 'allow'

Chapter 3: Of God's Decree1._____ God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass; ...

Chapter III - Of God’s Eternal Decree. i. God, from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass: ...
 

Beloved Daughter

Super Member
According to my understanding of the doctrine most of us adhere to, Ravi was likely never of us. I believe in Perseverance of the Saints. "Jesus is the author and perfecter of our faith". I don't call serial adultery/assault being a perfection of faith. I admit that his doctrine was sound, but it only raises my suspicion more that he was never of us.

We are supposed to let our lights shine, but a darkened heart hides a multitude of sins and that applies to all of us.

We know that Ravi's illness was short lived and he knew death was coming. I certainly hope that he used the time he had, to repent.

Beyond that, I'm in no position to judge others.
 

Beloved Daughter

Super Member
I quoted Calvinism's Confession of Faith, then told I did not know what I was talking about when it made no mention of your 'allow'.


There it is again; Calvinism's Confession of Faith makes no mention of 'allow'

Chapter 3: Of God's Decree1._____ God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass; ...

Chapter III - Of God’s Eternal Decree. i. God, from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass: ...
PG,

I don't hold to any so-called 'Calvinism's confession of Faith'. I don't follow Calvin, I follow the Bible. Big difference.

You are simply spinning your wheels to no avail.
 

TibiasDad

Well-known member
Indeed there isn't.
What then is the Westminster Confession of Faith or the LBCF, both which espouse Calvinistic precepts as their core soteriology and are the go to catechisms of Reform theology? There is no catechism named the “Calivinism Confession of Faith”, but there are catechisms that are the definitive expression of Calvinism. To assert there isn’t any Calvinism Confession of Faith is very disingenuous!

Doug
 

Beloved Daughter

Super Member
What then is the Westminster Confession of Faith or the LBCF, both which espouse Calvinistic precepts as their core soteriology and are the go to catechisms of Reform theology? There is no catechism named the “Calivinism Confession of Faith”, but there are catechisms that are the definitive expression of Calvinism. To assert there isn’t any Calvinism Confession of Faith is very disingenuous!

Doug

Just as 4Him and I have stated there is no Calvinism Confession. I'm well aware that the poster may have meant the contents of the Westminster/London Baptist.

Though I hold to the LBC1689, I have NEVER raised it to a level beyond scripture.

If you are here to say you think I'm disingenuous as in a personal attack, you should reconsider if you think that kind of divisive rhetoric is helpful. You know, more light than heat.

But if you are really going to criticize me, let me ask you to apply that same criticism to the person who could not take the time to say what he meant with a modicum of accuracy. He had many opportunities to do that.

1 Peter 3:15

English Standard Version

15 but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect,

Ephesians 4:29


English Standard Version

29 Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear.
 

4Him

Administrator
Staff member
What then is the Westminster Confession of Faith or the LBCF, both which espouse Calvinistic precepts as their core soteriology and are the go to catechisms of Reform theology? There is no catechism named the “Calivinism Confession of Faith”, but there are catechisms that are the definitive expression of Calvinism. To assert there isn’t any Calvinism Confession of Faith is very disingenuous!

Doug

No, it isn't....there isn't a 'CALVINISM confession of Faith'. Fact.
 

Oldsaint24

Well-known member
Was Ravi a Wolf in Sheep's clothing, and Jesus never knew him; or was he like Saint Paul and he did things he didn't want to do?

I need to know...
In all probability Ravi was a regenerate child of God who allowed willful sin to lead him down the broad road. If he had the indwelling of the Holy Spirit at one time......he obviously lost it. He ceased abiding in the vine and in all probability the Father cut him out. In that case he withered and died was gathered up and cast into the fire.

Children of God who willfully sin will be cast into prison. They will remain there throughout the age to come. They lose their inheritance....will miss the first resurrection, the marriage supper and miss the Sabbath Rest.....the millennial kingdom.

Fortunately because their names are in the Book of Life, they will be redeemed at the second resurrection.
 

Oldsaint24

Well-known member
There is a big difference between them and Ravi . They sinned one time with lying and were severely punished for that sin whereas Ravi was a lifestyle of secret sexual sins all the while on the outside appeared righteous.
And the five silly little virgin girls who foolishly did not bring some extra oil failed to make it also. I would say their punishment is also quite severe. Correct?
 
G

guest1

Guest
And the five silly little virgin girls who foolishly did not bring some extra oil failed to make it also. I would say their punishment is also quite severe. Correct?
You lost the right to have your questions answered when you fail to answer a single one of mine.

Forgot about Cain ?
 

York

Active member
Was Ravi a Wolf in Sheep's clothing, and Jesus never knew him; or was he like Saint Paul and he did things he didn't want to do?

I need to know...
My money is on Ravi saved even if still sinful.

All saved are saved yet still sinful. The bigger they come the more the devil will aim to take em down. And Ravi was big enough one I guess.

Not sure how anyone would reckon him damned on the immorality card. Sure, we're all immoral and the extent of our culpability has to do with the extent to which we could be tempted.

His biggest error is probably less the immorality and more giving into the pride which would lead him to forget he needed to rely on the Lord and not his clear intellect. He strayed unto dangerous territory, didn't cop that he was doing so, ignored the warning signs that would have been there. And off the edge of a cliff into sin he went.

Pretty much the same story for any Christian who sins.
 
G

guest1

Guest
My money is on Ravi saved even if still sinful.

All saved are saved yet still sinful. The bigger they come the more the devil will aim to take em down. And Ravi was big enough one I guess.

Not sure how anyone would reckon him damned on the immorality card. Sure, we're all immoral and the extent of our culpability has to do with the extent to which we could be tempted.

His biggest error is probably less the immorality and more giving into the pride which would lead him to forget he needed to rely on the Lord and not his clear intellect. He strayed unto dangerous territory, didn't cop that he was doing so, ignored the warning signs that would have been there. And off the edge of a cliff into sin he went.

Pretty much the same story for any Christian who sins.
An opinion without scripture is meaningless . I posted several passages showing those who practice sexual sins will not enter the kingdom of God and John refers to such ones as children of the devil and Paul and the other Apostles call such ones apostates. Jesus calls them wolves in sheep’s clothing and false teachers.

hope this helps !!!
 

His clay

Well-known member
Was Ravi a Wolf in Sheep's clothing, and Jesus never knew him; or was he like Saint Paul and he did things he didn't want to do?

I need to know...
My heart breaks for the whole situation. I hurt for those who have suffered at the hands of Ravi. I hurt for those who were previously blessed by his ministry, but now they are struggling with how to see his life and works. I hurt for the books he has written, for his testimony will devalue the truth of them. I hurt for his family members who have faced and will continue to face social difficulty and pain. My heart breaks for the countless lives touched by his ministry and the damage that this information brings to countless people as they are forced to reevaluate his life. I hurt for the body of Christ as it has to wade through difficult questions. I hope that we can see those who are hurting and seek to comfort them, for this situation is much more than just debate fodder.

I confess that I have too little knowledge; I cannot evaluate the situation well enough to answer your questions. God certainly does know, and I am content to leave the difficult questions over Ravi's life in His almighty, all-knowing hands. As He has said, "Vengeance is Mine; I will repay." Both the cross and hell stand as a testament of God's justice.
 
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4Him

Administrator
Staff member
An opinion without scripture is meaningless . I posted several passages showing those who practice sexual sins will not enter the kingdom of God and John refers to such ones as children of the devil and Paul and the other Apostles call such ones apostates. Jesus calls them wolves in sheep’s clothing and false teachers.

hope this helps !!!

And you still have no idea about his repentance....so it's best to not judge his eternity on what you don't know.
 
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