did the Apostles know Ps18:31?

There is more to chess than meets the eye. There are so many different options with every move, you want to try to keep your pieces defended, you need to learn to anticipate your opponent's best moves (which is a very difficult skill to learn, at least it was for me), you have to look 2-5 moves ahead (minimum), which increases all the possibilities exponentially.

I didn't really understand the complexity of thought until I started listening to Josh Waitzkin in ChessMaster (the child prodigy represented in the movie, "Searching for Bobby Fischer"), and saw all the different aspects being considered.

It's similar in games like football or baseball. Football became far more complex (but interesting) after I read, "Football For Dummies". Similar when I started understanding baseball better, such as all the backup positions by the catcher, pitcher, or other positions depending on where the ball is hit or where the play dictates the ball is thrown to (for instance, the catcher often backs up the first baseman for throws to first, in case the first baseman misses it.
Chess requires lots of study. Before i was born again i spent 10 hours a day studying, ya i know boring. I played in numerous tournaments. Loved it. Then once i was saved i knew i couldn't spend that amount of time playing or studying chess. I gave it up. That was decades ago. Now i go out and do the daily puzzle on chess dot com. My son loves it. And hes getting pretty good.
 
Chess requires lots of study. Before i was born again i spent 10 hours a day studying, ya i know boring. I played in numerous tournaments. Loved it. Then once i was saved i knew i couldn't spend that amount of time playing or studying chess. I gave it up. That was decades ago. Now i go out and do the daily puzzle on chess dot com. My son loves it. And hes getting pretty good.
It was not boring for you. I must be honest I purchased computer games to help the boys, as I just had no interest in it. Says more about me.

There are heaps of people who find it interesting. All knowledge has value. You learnt life skills studying chess. Games teach us many things. As a teacher I found that games are a great teaching tool. I laughed one day when I asked a son how was today, he said boring, he said playing games all days is boring. I laughed as I new the games were teaching tools. But he was a child that need to be stimulated.

I used to laugh when kids said they were bored. I said how can you be bored and then explained the great tools they have, compared to what we had. We had to sit in silence all day, do pages and pages of grammar or maths exerices. I was bored often staring out the window.

That is why discussion about the things of God is interesting. It also uses skills that we have learnt from playing games, from studying etc IMO. It got me back to do further studies.

For my husband it was hours and hours spent playing golf. The boys learnt golf, so they could spend time with him. Once saved he changed and spent more time doing things with the reading the bible and spending time with the family.
 
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Well all I can say that the RC strategies used for avoiding, diverting and not answering questions, thus stopping any interesting discussions is disapointing. Nothing is learnt by non answering or diverting off topic.
 
It was not boring for you. I must be honest I purchased computer games to help the boys, as I just had no interest in it. Says more about me.

You just reminded me of an old story.
Back in the day, before AOL and the world wide web, I was on a religious BBS ("Bulletin board system", a computer network connected by 300 baud and 1200 baud modems). There was a woman participant, and somehow the subject got to chess, and I happened to mention that very few women play chess. Factually, true. With the exception of the Polgar sisters, female players are few and far between. Well, she took that as an insult, and challenged me to a game. I said, "great!". So I send e2-e4 (KP to e4), she responds with her pawn, we develop our knights, etc. A few moves in, I compliment her on one of her moves. Taken aback, she admits that she was offended by my (factiual) comment, and decided to "teach me a lesson". Turns out she was using a chess program to play all her moves. I guess she read me completely wrong.

For my husband it was hours and hours spent playing golf. The boys learnt golf, so they could spend time with him. Once saved he changed and spent more time doing things with the reading the bible and spending time with the family.

Well, as someone who spent the first 50 years of his life as a couch potato, and the found the gym and the barbell, and got to some pretty nice numbers on my bench, squat, and deadlift, I have to say this. Bibie study is first priority. But staying active and in shape is a pretty close second, IMO. I'm not a golfer, but exercise and fresh air are a pretty good combination. And when it's combined with family time, even better.
 
You just reminded me of an old story.
Back in the day, before AOL and the world wide web, I was on a religious BBS ("Bulletin board system", a computer network connected by 300 baud and 1200 baud modems). There was a woman participant, and somehow the subject got to chess, and I happened to mention that very few women play chess. Factually, true. With the exception of the Polgar sisters, female players are few and far between. Well, she took that as an insult, and challenged me to a game. I said, "great!". So I send e2-e4 (KP to e4), she responds with her pawn, we develop our knights, etc. A few moves in, I compliment her on one of her moves. Taken aback, she admits that she was offended by my (factiual) comment, and decided to "teach me a lesson". Turns out she was using a chess program to play all her moves. I guess she read me completely wrong.



Well, as someone who spent the first 50 years of his life as a couch potato, and the found the gym and the barbell, and got to some pretty nice numbers on my bench, squat, and deadlift, I have to say this. Bibie study is first priority. But staying active and in shape is a pretty close second, IMO. I'm not a golfer, but exercise and fresh air are a pretty good combination. And when it's combined with family time, even better.
I am laughing some women are a little over sensitive and using the computer that way does not prove her point at all. She was cheating.

I am laughing because my middle son came home from pre school upset. I said well what is the problem, his reply was girls can't be firemen. I said girls can become fire chiefs, if they want and let that girl play with you. I must admit I was stunned, ours was not a household were we taught that someone couldn't do something. But learning to play together is important.

My boys can cook, and clean and do the washing. I taught them to be self reliant, as you do not know if you will find a spouse. I mean I hoped they would. They could not understand why they needed to do these things. But they are able to jump in when their wives are sick etc. They show respect to women which is important. Unfortunately, in this country violence against women is increasing and murder of spouses/partners is growing.

You are right God is first, then family. Staying fit is great, I have always enjoyed playing tennis and swimming. However, I can no longer do these things.
 
I suppose we should get back on topic. Though I don't feel there will be much discussion from RCs and this is sad. If their rock claim is wrong, so many of their claims fall over. Their authority falls, their apostolic succession falls etc.

Ps 18:31

For who is God besides the Lord?
And who is t
he Rock except our God?

Ps 78:35

And they remembered that God was their rock,
And the Most High God their Redeemer.


deut 32:4

He is the Rock, his works are perfect, and all his ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he

1 Cor 10:4

And all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual Rock that followed them, and the Rock was Christ

These are just a few of the scriptures about the Rock.

Now scripture is clear the rock is God, Jesus and not Peter. The rock is perfect, just, do no wrong and just. These attributes can not be seen in the so called successor. Therefore it is clear that RCs have this wrong. They have no confirmation for their belief at all in 3 pages.
 
It was not boring for you. I must be honest I purchased computer games to help the boys, as I just had no interest in it. Says more about me.

There are heaps of people who find it interesting. All knowledge has value. You learnt life skills studying chess. Games teach us many things. As a teacher I found that games are a great teaching tool. I laughed one day when I asked a son how was today, he said boring, he said playing games all days is boring. I laughed as I new the games were teaching tools. But he was a child that need to be stimulated.

I used to laugh when kids said they were bored. I said how can you be bored and then explained the great tools they have, compared to what we had. We had to sit in silence all day, do pages and pages of grammar or maths exerices. I was bored often staring out the window.

That is why discussion about the things of God is interesting. It also uses skills that we have learnt from playing games, from studying etc IMO. It got me back to do further studies.

For my husband it was hours and hours spent playing golf. The boys learnt golf, so they could spend time with him. Once saved he changed and spent more time doing things with the reading the bible and spending time with the family.
God uses all sorts of things we did as non believers for the kingdom. We are all different parts of the one body. Youre describing my school years too. We didn't have games like that either. Daydreaming staring out the window....
 
God uses all sorts of things we did as non believers for the kingdom. We are all different parts of the one body. Youre describing my school years too. We didn't have games like that either. Daydreaming staring out the window....
When you think about it, God knew the best way to teach children. The feasts are so that children will ask questions.

Ex 12:26

And when your children ask you, ‘What does this ceremony mean to you?’

God knew the importance of having fun with children and stimulating them to ask questions. I wonder why RCs don't like answering questions.
 
False: he was referring to Peter, the Rock of Peter's Confession, and the Rock of Christ.

Utterly false, as we have proven from more Bible verses and the fact that 2 different words for "rock" are used here, for Jesus and Peter. We have been through this discussion many times on here, but Catholics must turn a blind eye to that truth. I will be happy to restate the information given to me by my cyber scholar friend who teaches Biblical Greek.

And the point of doing that would be---what? Conversation? No. All you would do is come up with 1001 reasons why those verses don't prove a papacy, why I am engaging in "eisegesis," blah, blah, blah.
The point would be to post the truth.

Where does Jesus say in this verse, "I will make you the pope, the head of the entire church, and other popes will follow in your footsteps"?
In other words: it would be a pointless waste of time.
Only for papists like yourself. Defending the truth is never a waste of time. Sorry you think it is.
 
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Utterly false, as we have proven from more Bible verses and the fact that 2 different words for "rock" are used here, for Jesus and Peter. We have been through this discussion many times on here, but Catholics must turn a blind eye to that truth. I will be happy to restate the information given to me by my cyber scholar friend who teaches Biblical Greek.


The point would be to post the truth.

Where does Jesus say in this verse, "I will make you the pope, the head of the entire church, and other popes will follow in your footsteps"?

Only for papists like yourself. Defending the truth is never a waste of time. Sorry you think it is.
Why don't you ask your cyber scholar biblical Greek friend what language Jesus spoke with the apostles?

"You are Simon son of John. You will be called Cephas
 
Why don't you ask your cyber scholar biblical Greek friend what language Jesus spoke with the apostles?

"You are Simon son of John. You will be called Cephas
He told me his personal opinion was Greek, but he could also be wrong. But he did say that they would have known Aramaic and Hebrew , as well.

The HS inspired the writers of the NT to write in Koine Greek and in Greek, there is a distinction between Petra and petros. JESUS is the Petra upon which He build His church, and the foundation and cornerstone of the church, as Paul makes clear. NOWHERE does the Bible say the church is built on Peter alone. Would you like to see those bible verses of Paul's again?

Now, kindly show us from Matthew 16 where Jesus said to Peter, "Upon you, I will build my church, and make you its pope, and have popes follow after you." IF you can.

We will wait.
 
He told me his personal opinion was Greek, but he could also be wrong. But he did say that they would have known Aramaic and Hebrew , as well.

The HS inspired the writers of the NT to write in Koine Greek and in Greek, there is a distinction between Petra and petros. JESUS is the Petra upon which He build His church, and the foundation and cornerstone of the church, as Paul makes clear. NOWHERE does the Bible say the church is built on Peter alone. Would you like to see those bible verses of Paul's again?

Now, kindly show us from Matthew 16 where Jesus said to Peter, "Upon you, I will build my church, and make you its pope, and have popes follow after you." IF you can.

We will wait.
"YOU Will BE CALLED CEPHAS".

I'm sorry, but your founder believed in sola scriptura. And yet you treat this cyber Greek scholar friend as if he were some magisterium. No, Scripture is CLEAR. And it alone is your highest authority.
 
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Why don't you ask your cyber scholar biblical Greek friend what language Jesus spoke with the apostles?

"You are Simon son of John. You will be called Cephas
What is your interpretation of these verses?

Psalm 18:31
For who is God, but the Lord?
And who is a rock, except our God?—

2 Samuel 22:32
For who is God besides the Lord?
And who is the Rock except our God?
Psalm 18:2
The LORD is my rock, my fortress, and my deliverer. My God is my rock, in whom I take refuge, my shield, and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold.
Psalm 62:2
He alone is my rock and my salvation. He is my fortress; I will never be shaken.
There is no one holy like the LORD. Indeed, there is no one besides You! And there is no Rock like our God.
 
"YOU Will BE CALLED CEPHAS".

Well, since "you will be called" isn't Aramaic, but is a translation of the Greek, it is clear that Jesus spoke (at least) Greek and Aramaic. It would also be silly to assume that Jesus didn't speak Hebrew.

And we know that Paul spoke both Hebrew and Greek, the latter being necessary (being the "Lingua Franca") in order to be able to communicate with the Romans.

I'm sorry, but your founder believed in sola scriptura.

Yes... Christ, our founder, DID (and does) believe in "sola scriptura".
As did the ECF's.
Go figure.
 
"YOU Will BE CALLED CEPHAS".

SO WHAT? Matthew is in Greek, not Aramaic! Did that fact escape you?? And in the GREEK, there is a difference between petra and petros!
I'm sorry, but your founder believed in sola scriptura.

So? And in SCRIPTURE, in the GREEK, there IS a difference between petros and petra!
And yet you treat this cyber Greek scholar friend as if he were some magisterium.

I treat him as one who is an expert on the Biblical languages, especially the Greek used in the NT, which he teaches. Which no one on here is or does.

But even without his expertise, the Bible IS clear--that the "petra" Jesus would build His church upon is Himself! The ROCK of our salvation! The Rock He would build His church upon. Paul says that Jesus is the foundation and cornerstone of the church! NOT one apostle called petros!
No, Scripture is CLEAR. And it alone is your highest authority.
Yes, it is and Scripture is clear that JESUS is the PETRA upon which He would build His church--not a mere man like Peter.
 
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"YOU Will BE CALLED CEPHAS".

I'm sorry, but your founder believed in sola scriptura. And yet you treat this cyber Greek scholar friend as if he were some magisterium. No, Scripture is CLEAR. And it alone is your highest authority.
Proving once again you don't know what sola scriptura is.

And yes scripture is our highest authority. Not our only authority. When Bonnie cites her friend that isn't going against ss. Nor does she think he is some kind of magesterium. That's just idiocy on your part.
 
"YOU Will BE CALLED CEPHAS".

I'm sorry, but your founder believed in sola scriptura. And yet you treat this cyber Greek scholar friend as if he were some magisterium. No, Scripture is CLEAR. And it alone is your highest authority.

"your founder believed in sola scriptura.":

  1. As did Aquinas and Pope Benedict 16th.
  2. Our founder is Jesus Christ. We are reformers. We reform the Church away from the accretions added into Christ's Church. We simply did to start a new church in the 16th century. And, anyone truly familiar with Church history knows that to be the case.
The Scripture is clear. Simon was renamed Cephas/Peter. What does that have to do with the initiation of the Pope?

God Bless
 
What is your interpretation of these verses?

Psalm 18:31
For who is God, but the Lord?
And who is a rock, except our God?—

2 Samuel 22:32
For who is God besides the Lord?
And who is the Rock except our God?
Psalm 18:2
The LORD is my rock, my fortress, and my deliverer. My God is my rock, in whom I take refuge, my shield, and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold.
Psalm 62:2
He alone is my rock and my salvation. He is my fortress; I will never be shaken.
There is no one holy like the LORD. Indeed, there is no one besides You! And there is no Rock like our God.
There you go. So much for Jesus' words.
 
There you go. So much for Jesus' words.

Huh?!
So if we quote any part of the Bible other than Christ's words, it's "so much for Jesus' words"?

So is your position that we need to destroy all of the Bible, other than the gospels, and small parts of Acts and Revelation, which are in "red"?

Or is it okay to quote from the Psalms?
 
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