Did You Save Yourself?

Sketo

Well-known member
Thinking outside the box (part 2)

What did Jesus actually accomplish on the cross?

Did Jesus actually accomplish something definite for anyone in particular, or did he only make something available, then leave it up to them to accomplish the rest?

I ask because it seams if Jesus's life, death, burial, and resurrection achieved the exact same for ALL, and nothing more for anyone in particular, this would mean that people who end up in heaven are not there because of what Jesus accomplished... because he accomplished the exact same, and nothing less, for ALL the ones who end up in hell!

If this is true what makes the difference between heaven or hell?

What Jesus accomplished... or what man accomplished?

How does Jesus actually save anyone?
 

PeanutGallery

Well-known member
...

If this is true what makes the difference between heaven or hell?

What Jesus accomplished... or what man accomplished?

How does Jesus actually save anyone?
Here's the difference:
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
1Cor 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
 

civic

Well-known member
Here's the difference:
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
1Cor 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
are you KJV only ?
 

Sketo

Well-known member
Here's the difference:
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
1Cor 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
So... how were you saved... in light of the OP?
 

TibiasDad

Active member
Thinking outside the box (part 2)

What did Jesus actually accomplish on the cross?

Did Jesus actually accomplish something definite for anyone in particular, or did he only make something available, then leave it up to them to accomplish the rest?

I ask because it seams if Jesus's life, death, burial, and resurrection achieved the exact same for ALL, and nothing more for anyone in particular, this would mean that people who end up in heaven are not there because of what Jesus accomplished... because he accomplished the exact same, and nothing less, for ALL the ones who end up in hell!

If this is true what makes the difference between heaven or hell?

What Jesus accomplished... or what man accomplished?

How does Jesus actually save anyone?

Which comes first, belief or the personal action in which we are to believe? Which ever is first is the effectual element.

Believing that Christ's blood saves me, doesn't save me, but it does allow me to experience the redemption accomplished and provided by what Jesus did and accomplished. I could believe in God, but without Christ's blood, I would be lost. That God places the requirement of belief, a true contingency, in the equation does not diminish or displace the power and efficiency of Christ's sacrifice.


Doug


Doug
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
Thinking outside the box (part 2)

What did Jesus actually accomplish on the cross?

Did Jesus actually accomplish something definite for anyone in particular, or did he only make something available, then leave it up to them to accomplish the rest?

I ask because it seams if Jesus's life, death, burial, and resurrection achieved the exact same for ALL, and nothing more for anyone in particular, this would mean that people who end up in heaven are not there because of what Jesus accomplished... because he accomplished the exact same, and nothing less, for ALL the ones who end up in hell!

If this is true what makes the difference between heaven or hell?

What Jesus accomplished... or what man accomplished?

How does Jesus actually save anyone?
Do you know some verse that says His death regenerated anyone? You might and if you think you do, it could be beneficial to discuss it.
His death paid for sin. God accepted that sacrifice for sin. I am not aware of any verse saying His death regenerated anyone.
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
Thinking outside the box (part 2)

What did Jesus actually accomplish on the cross?

Did Jesus actually accomplish something definite for anyone in particular, or did he only make something available, then leave it up to them to accomplish the rest?

I ask because it seams if Jesus's life, death, burial, and resurrection achieved the exact same for ALL, and nothing more for anyone in particular, this would mean that people who end up in heaven are not there because of what Jesus accomplished... because he accomplished the exact same, and nothing less, for ALL the ones who end up in hell!

If this is true what makes the difference between heaven or hell?

What Jesus accomplished... or what man accomplished?

How does Jesus actually save anyone?
Do you know some verse that says His death regenerated anyone. You might and if you think you do it could be beneficial to discuss it. His death paid for sin. God accepted that sacrifice for sin. I am not aware of any verse saying His death regenerated anyone.
 

SovereignGrace

Well-known member
Which comes first, belief or the personal action in which we are to believe? Which ever is first is the effectual element.

Believing that Christ's blood saves me, doesn't save me, but it does allow me to experience the redemption accomplished and provided by what Jesus did and accomplished. I could believe in God, but without Christ's blood, I would be lost. That God places the requirement of belief, a true contingency, in the equation does not diminish or displace the power and efficiency of Christ's sacrifice.


Doug


Doug
But the question that the other side of this debate does not and/or cannot answer is why did you believe when others did not? Seeing that all are just as depraved as the others, why do some believe and some do not?
 

zerinus

Well-known member
So... how were you saved... in light of the OP?
His sacrifice made it possible for me to be forgiven of my sins through faith and repentance:

Matthew 4:

17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Matthew 12:

41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.

Mark 1:

14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Mark 2:

17 When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, … I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Mark 6:

12 And they went out, and preached that men should repent.

Luke 5:

32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Luke 13:

3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Luke 15:

7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

Luke 24:

47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Acts 2:

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 3:

19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Acts 5:

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Acts 17:

30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Acts 20:

20 And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have shewed you, and have taught you publickly, and from house to house,
21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

Acts 26:

19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:
20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

Romans 2:

4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

2 Peter 3:

9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Revelation 2:

5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works;

Revelation 3:

19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Thinking outside the box (part 2)

What did Jesus actually accomplish on the cross?

Did Jesus actually accomplish something definite for anyone in particular, or did he only make something available, then leave it up to them to accomplish the rest?

I ask because it seams if Jesus's life, death, burial, and resurrection achieved the exact same for ALL, and nothing more for anyone in particular, this would mean that people who end up in heaven are not there because of what Jesus accomplished... because he accomplished the exact same, and nothing less, for ALL the ones who end up in hell!

If this is true what makes the difference between heaven or hell?

What Jesus accomplished... or what man accomplished?

How does Jesus actually save anyone?
Yes he provided atonement

Those who are united to him in faith receive its benefits

Those without faith do not

John 3:14–19 —KJV
“And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
No one saves themselves

The decision to trust in Christ is not God's decision to save

There are two distinct acts here

The decision to trust is one

God's decision to save those who trust in Christ another
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
But the question that the other side of this debate does not and/or cannot answer is why did you believe when others did not? Seeing that all are just as depraved as the others, why do some believe and some do not?
What is better? An Arminian who says the Bible does not explain why one person says yes and another no. Or the Calvinist who invents a reason for the yes, so to bolster their doctrine.
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
No one saves themselves

The decision to trust in Christ is not God's decision to save

There are two distinct acts here

The decision to trust is one

God's decision to save those who trust in Christ another
you wonder why that distinction seems so difficult for a Calvinist to accept.
 

civic

Well-known member
What is better? An Arminian who says the Bible does not explain why one person says yes and another no. Or the Calvinist who invents a reason for the yes, so to bolster their doctrine.
Do you have an example or is this just another one of your false accusations ?
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
Thinking outside the box (part 2)

What did Jesus actually accomplish on the cross?

A doorway to God.

Did Jesus actually accomplish something definite for anyone in particular, or did he only make something available, then leave it up to them to accomplish the rest?

Yes, the Israelites who lived and died before him.

I ask because it seams if Jesus's life, death, burial, and resurrection achieved the exact same for ALL, and nothing more for anyone in particular, this would mean that people who end up in heaven are not there because of what Jesus accomplished... because he accomplished the exact same, and nothing less, for ALL the ones who end up in hell!

Your "reasoning" here is naive and unsound.

If this is true what makes the difference between heaven or hell?

Responding to God's gift of grace. It's not a work to receive a gift.

What Jesus accomplished... or what man accomplished?

How does Jesus actually save anyone?

We become the righteousness of God IN HIM.

Now go and read 1 John 2:3-6.
 

TibiasDad

Active member
But the question that the other side of this debate does not and/or cannot answer is why did you believe when others did not? Seeing that all are just as depraved as the others, why do some believe and some do not?

Why do you do something different from other people? Why do you choose A while other people choose B? Why do some drink Coke and others Pepsi, why doesn't everyone think blue is their favorite color? It's a diversion question that is meaningless.
We choose what we do because, at that moment, that's what we feel is in our best interest or what we want. The question is why does God, in your thinking, only choose a few and "pass over" everyone else? (Isn't it ironic that the Bible uses "Pass over" as a term of salvation, and Calvinism uses it as a term of condemnation?)


Doug
 
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