didn’t the prophets address the timeframe of 800-400 BC ?

e v e

Super Member
didn’t the prophets address the timeframe of 800-400 BC ?
No. With exception of a number of Jeremiah chapters and a few others,
more then 90% of the content in prophets addresses “a far future time”:
a couple of chapters point forward to the time of Christ , but most of them
deal with “the start of Revelation – and the timeframe following that”.

does that mean that prophets were misunderstood all this time ?
Yes . The mindset of scholars decided that the described events happened
within the 800-400 BC timeframe, and they translated the text accordingly,
but with disastrous result:
because the brutal mindset forgot that a term like “army” could also,
depending upon context, be “an angel army” or even “an army of spirits”
(since , after all , these are themes in prophets),
but their mindset placed every verse upon her own Procrustean bed,
thereby murdering any possible deeper layer of the described events.
… yet many themes in prophets far exceed any earthly reality,
and the reason is that a number of terms and phrases are not just used to
describe events in 800-400 BC with, but those same phrases are also used
to describe situations or places which exist in the Other Reality.
 

rakovsky

Active member
There's an interpretation that they were prophecying about both time periods, eg. 600 BC and a further time in the future, with the same prophecies sometimes.
 

docphin5

Well-known member
According to the Essenes, the prophets were mostly talking about the first and second centuries B.C. It is when all the Messianic fervor was focused to be about the coming Messianic kingdom IN THEIR TIME. Now, it appears to be all for nothing since the world kept chugging along long after them. The Jews don’t know why the pause. Even Christinity has little explanation why we have been sitting around for two thousand years waiting for the ”return of Christ”. Of course, the non believers just see it as more reason to exclude it as a hoax..

So, something significant supposedly happened two thousand years ago which the prophets allegedly predicted. It is as if the Messianic kingdom began but then stalled for some unexplained reason. Maybe what the prophets predicted includes long spans of human time covering many generarions. Therefore, earthly kingdoms may come and go but God’s kingdom silently, slowly, advances on, until of course, the future great Day of judgment, when it becomes outwardly manifest.

So you might be right to some degree that they spoke of a future event but we cannot exclude the possibility the Messianic kingdom began around the second century B.C. according to the Essenes and Jewish prophets. And the delay from then to now was anticipated by them when they wrote,

”If it tarries, be patient, it will surely come true and not be delayed” (Habakkuk 2:3)

”This refers to those loyal ones, obedient to the [secret meaning] of the Law, whose hands will not cease from loyal service even when the Last DAYS seems long to them, for all the TIMES fixed by God will come about at their proper TIME [i.e., the “Appointed Times”] as He ordained that they should by his inscrutable insight. (A commentary of Habakkuk in the Dead Sea Scrolls, Wise, page 84).
 
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Gary Mac

Well-known member
didn’t the prophets address the timeframe of 800-400 BC ?
No. With exception of a number of Jeremiah chapters and a few others,
more then 90% of the content in prophets addresses “a far future time”:
a couple of chapters point forward to the time of Christ , but most of them
deal with “the start of Revelation – and the timeframe following that”.

does that mean that prophets were misunderstood all this time ?
Yes . The mindset of scholars decided that the described events happened
within the 800-400 BC timeframe, and they translated the text accordingly,
but with disastrous result:
because the brutal mindset forgot that a term like “army” could also,
depending upon context, be “an angel army” or even “an army of spirits”
(since , after all , these are themes in prophets),
but their mindset placed every verse upon her own Procrustean bed,
thereby murdering any possible deeper layer of the described events.
… yet many themes in prophets far exceed any earthly reality,
and the reason is that a number of terms and phrases are not just used to
describe events in 800-400 BC with, but those same phrases are also used
to describe situations or places which exist in the Other Reality.
Revelation started with Adam he was the first to know God and became like Him where God was reveled in him. Gen 3:22. Many came after who God manifest Himself in and many will to come. The only thing that halts that revelation is mans own ideas about Him.
 

e v e

Super Member
According to the Essenes, the prophets were mostly talking about the first and second centuries B.C. It is when all the Messianic fervor was focused to be about the coming Messianic kingdom IN THEIR TIME. Now, it appears to be all for nothing since the world kept chugging along long after them. The Jews don’t know why the pause. Even Christinity has little explanation why we have been sitting around for two thousand years waiting for the ”return of Christ”. Of course, the non believers just see it as more reason to exclude it as a hoax..

So, something significant supposedly happened two thousand years ago which the prophets allegedly predicted. It is as if the Messianic kingdom began but then stalled for some unexplained reason. Maybe what the prophets predicted includes long spans of human time covering many generarions. Therefore, earthly kingdoms may come and go but God’s kingdom silently, slowly, advances on, until of course, the future great Day of judgment, when it becomes outwardly manifest.

So you might be right to some degree that they spoke of a future event but we cannot exclude the possibility the Messianic kingdom began around the second century B.C. according to the Essenes and Jewish prophets. And the delay from then to now was anticipated by them when they wrote,

”If it tarries, be patient, it will surely come true and not be delayed” (Habakkuk 2:3)

”This refers to those loyal ones, obedient to the [secret meaning] of the Law, whose hands will not cease from loyal service even when the Last DAYS seems long to them, for all the TIMES fixed by God will come about at their proper TIME [i.e., the “Appointed Times”] as He ordained that they should by his inscrutable insight. (A commentary of Habakkuk in the Dead Sea Scrolls, Wise, page 84).
it did not come in their time...
because slowly christianity got away from Him,
was steered in other directions by men not Hearing Him...
(just as the OT fathers, christianity today not Hearing Him.)
I mean literally hear Him, talk with Him... Just as He did with Isaiah and Ezekiel...

As soon as men started to write down His Words, it made them vulnerable to corruption...
and began the canons and canon-thinking....
and the many esau pharisees (the many commentaries, canons, translations of esau)
having taken over the subject ...
to block Him out, get between He and His Souls
..to prevent a soul from meeting Him
by all that created confusion
of dogmas and doctrines.


until now we see a situation such as now...
of versions which have nothing to do with Christ..
a cacophony of falsehoods used against His Souls...

I'm not that concerned about Kingdoms and breakdowns scholars have devised...

The pause was man ignoring God and not listening to Him
and there fore the expected Change did not happen...

instead, we got institutional religion. just like in the OT,
the OT fathers didn't listen and instead had their institutionalized religion..

we've to leave all that behind.

here are the lines habakkuk2, from my sweetheart in netherlands...
who is fluent in many ancient languages including hebrew and translates...
and this being our translation..what we understood.

“I (am) standing – on – my watch ,
and (have) taken a stance – on=concerning – (..the vision..) (mtsur=chzun) ;
(..waiting..) – to see – what – he
[=IEUE] (will) speak [in right direction] – [=about them] [=’souls’] ,
[=as] (to) what – (will make) [=them] to return
(-shb) – (..befóre?..) – [=they] (will be) corrected ;


3 and=then – IEUE – answers me , saying :
write you down – the vision , and=as making it [crystal-] clear – on – the tablet ,
so that – it (may) run – [+to] the one (who will) read – it ; +
[=’in our days’]


4 that=because – the vision – (is) still – for the appointed time , [=’our days’]
and it (will give) breathe [-life] – [=in] the end [-time] , and (will) – not – lie :

(..the vision..) (chk=chzun) – (will) [=not] (am=la) – (be) delayed ,
that=because – it (will) surely – arrive , [+and] (will) – not – (be) hindered ;
 
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e v e

Super Member
Revelation started with Adam he was the first to know God and became like Him where God was reveled in him. Gen 3:22. Many came after who God manifest Himself in and many will to come. The only thing that halts that revelation is mans own ideas about Him.
adam is the one who did not become like Him… instead choosing his own image over God. adam had his own ideas about Him and is nothing like Him.

adam betrayed God, created this corrupt universe and body and as prince of the air is about to be dethroned.

goodbye adam.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
adam is the one who did not become like Him… instead choosing his own image over God. adam had his own ideas about Him and is nothing like Him.

adam betrayed God, created this corrupt universe and body and as prince of the air is about to be dethroned.

goodbye adam.
Actually the laws of Eden just as the laws today for the flesh man about a god dissipated when He became like God to know this difference. Same thing happend in Abraham, Moses, Jesus went from the lwas of eden, the temple, and became like Him, 120 did the same in an upper room.

The laws you are under to regulate your beliefs will never allow you to become like Him to know that same difference until you do become like Him yourself. But in order to do that you must fall in order for God to arise in you. The fall of man allows the resurrections of the Christ in you, which is you anointed of God, have His same mind. All these laws you have formed will never ever let God become your mind to know that same difference all of these became as He is to know the difference.
 

e v e

Super Member
Actually the laws of Eden just as the laws today for the flesh man about a god dissipated when He became like God to know this difference. Same thing happend in Abraham, Moses, Jesus went from the lwas of eden, the temple, and became like Him, 120 did the same in an upper room.

The laws you are under to regulate your beliefs will never allow you to become like Him to know that same difference until you do become like Him yourself. But in order to do that you must fall in order for God to arise in you. The fall of man allows the resurrections of the Christ in you, which is you anointed of God, have His same mind. All these laws you have formed will never ever let God become your mind to know that same difference all of these became as He is to know the difference.
there are no laws in eden …

no need. God asking we not to eat of that tree was a completely different thing and that won’t exist anymore.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
there are no laws in eden …
Really. The whole story of Eden is about law, do and dont's.
no need. God asking we not to eat of that tree was a completely different thing and that won’t exist anymore.
God is not asking you not to eat He commands we eat of His SPirit take and eat ye all of it, get it inside you, and in the day you do you will die and and your eyes will be opened to Him and He will arise in you to become like Him. You cant know this difference least you do eat of His knowledge. Even jesus ate of His knowledge in Matt 3:16, there is no other way Gods kingdom can be opened to Jesus, Adam, Moses 120 or anyone else least you eat of His knowledge. You are not applying what really happened in that allegory to yourself.
 

Truth7t7

Active member
According to the Essenes, the prophets were mostly talking about the first and second centuries B.C. It is when all the Messianic fervor was focused to be about the coming Messianic kingdom IN THEIR TIME. Now, it appears to be all for nothing since the world kept chugging along long after them. The Jews don’t know why the pause. Even Christinity has little explanation why we have been sitting around for two thousand years waiting for the ”return of Christ”. Of course, the non believers just see it as more reason to exclude it as a hoax..

So, something significant supposedly happened two thousand years ago which the prophets allegedly predicted. It is as if the Messianic kingdom began but then stalled for some unexplained reason. Maybe what the prophets predicted includes long spans of human time covering many generarions. Therefore, earthly kingdoms may come and go but God’s kingdom silently, slowly, advances on, until of course, the future great Day of judgment, when it becomes outwardly manifest.

So you might be right to some degree that they spoke of a future event but we cannot exclude the possibility the Messianic kingdom began around the second century B.C. according to the Essenes and Jewish prophets. And the delay from then to now was anticipated by them when they wrote,

”If it tarries, be patient, it will surely come true and not be delayed” (Habakkuk 2:3)

”This refers to those loyal ones, obedient to the [secret meaning] of the Law, whose hands will not cease from loyal service even when the Last DAYS seems long to them, for all the TIMES fixed by God will come about at their proper TIME [i.e., the “Appointed Times”] as He ordained that they should by his inscrutable insight. (A commentary of Habakkuk in the Dead Sea Scrolls, Wise, page 84).
You continue to quote the "Essenes" as if they followed the Hebrew God of the Old Testament

The Essenes were a monastic cult group, that removed Leviticus from the Old Testament, and denounced Jerusalems temple in Animal blood sacrifice for sin, the only means of atonement prior to the cross of Calvary?
 

docphin5

Well-known member
You continue to quote the "Essenes" as if they followed the Hebrew God of the Old Testament

The Essenes were a monastic cult group, that removed Leviticus from the Old Testament, and denounced Jerusalems temple in Animal blood sacrifice for sin, the only means of atonement prior to the cross of Calvary?
It is a bit more complicated than that.

The Essenes were the first Jewish Christians and the Dead Sea Scrolls contain the earliest teachings found in the epistles, for example, the Temple of Adam (i.e., temple of humanity), ritual baptism, eucharist with bread and wine, allegorical interpretation of scripture (see Galatians 4:24), Messianic comings, etc.—all ideas that the first century church held in common. They even called themselves “The Way” and “Sons of Light” which the first century church is associated with. They called their base at Qumran “Damascus” which coincidentally is where Paul was headed to persecute the followers of “The Way” before his conversion.
 
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Truth7t7

Active member
It is a bit more complicated than that.

The Essenes were the first Jewish Christians and the Dead Sea Scrolls contain the earliest teachings found in the epistles, for example, the Temple of Adam (i.e., temple of humanity), ritual baptism, eucharist with bread and wine, allegorical interpretation of scripture (see Galatians 4:24), Messianic comings, etc.—all ideas that the first century church held in common. They even called themselves “The Way” and “Sons of Light” which the first century church is associated with. They called their base at Qumran “Damascus” which coincidentally is where Paul was headed to persecute the followers of “The Way” before his conversion.
We Will Disagree

The Essenes were a heretical cult, that removed the book of Leviticus, and they denied animal blood sacrifice for sin in Jerusalems temple, prior to the blood shed on the cross of Calvary

The Essenes rejected God, and his instructions for sin and atonement, comparable to a person denying atonement on the Cross of Calvary today
 
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docphin5

Well-known member
We Will Disagree

The Essenes were a heretical cult, that removed the book of Leviticus, and they denied animal blood sacrifice for sin in Jerusalems temple, prior to the blood shed on the cross of Calvary
My guess is that you have NEVER read the Dead Sea Scrolls and are only repeating what you have been told, which is not a lot. Your loss. BTW, it is scripture which denies the benefits of animal sacrifice. It was part of the new covenant which the Essenes claimed to belong to. Sound familiar? It should. But hey believe what you were told if you want to without checking it out for yourself.

Isaiah 1:12,
What to me is the multitude of your sacrifices?
says the LORD;
I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams
and the fat of well-fed beasts;

I do not delight in the blood of bulls,
or of lambs, or of goats.

The Essenes rejected God,
clearly never read the Dead Sea Scrolls
and his instructions for sin and atonement,
clearly never read the Dead Sea Scrolls. The Essenes believed atonement was received by the presence of the Holy Spirit indwelling the saint. Paul names the Holy Spirit, Jesus or Joshua, indwelling the saints. Same thing.
comparable to a person denying atonement on the Cross of Calvary today
True. Human sacrifice is an abomination to God. What you fail to grasp is that the Gospel stories are mythical constructs about the Holy Spirit named "Jesus". There never was a human sacrifice that God required. If you had not been indoctrinated into error you would have noticed that Paul teaches "Adam is a TYPE"(Romans 5:14) and it was Adam, "ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE", who was shamed and killed by a tree or "hung on a tree". The word "crucify" means "hung on a tree or pole". But you will not understand this and try to tell me that human sacrifice was necessary. So, to each his own.
 
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Truth7t7

Active member
Human sacrifice is an abomination to God. What you fail to grasp is that the Gospel stories are mythical constructs about the Holy Spirit named "Jesus". There never was a human sacrifice that God required. If you had not been indoctrinated into error you would have noticed that Paul teaches "Adam is a TYPE"(Romans 5:14) and it was Adam, "ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE", who was shamed and killed by a tree or "hung on a tree". The word "crucify" means "hung on a tree or pole". But you will not understand this and try to tell me that human sacrifice was necessary. So, to each his own.
Your claims are heretical in my opinion, our conversation ends here.

1. The Gospels are Mythical
2. The Holy Spirit Named Jesus

1 John 4:1-3KJV
1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2 John 7KJV
7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Philippians 2:5-11KJV
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
 

docphin5

Well-known member
Your claims are heretical in my opinion, our conversation ends here.

1. The Gospels are Mythical
2. The Holy Spirit Named Jesus
You are clueless and plugging your ears will ensure you remain so.

FYI, regarding point #2, the Holy Spirit is explicitly named by Paul to be the inner “Jesus” in the scriptures we both read, but your mind is dull and eyes blind to it because you prefer superstitions than the truth.

2 Corinthians 4:6, ESV: "For God [Ruach Elohim], who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ."

Good riddens.
 

e v e

Super Member
the bible always had 80 books...for almost 2000 years.
even corrupt KJV had 80 books.

and now its 66 books since only the last 136 years.
 

e v e

Super Member
true, sometime after Christ, the sanhedrin (pharisees!) had removed the apocrypha chapters from theirs.

All quite fishy..
 

docphin5

Well-known member
true, sometime after Christ, the sanhedrin (pharisees!) had removed the apocrypha chapters from theirs.

All quite fishy..
Sure, much has been lost but some has been recovered. For example, the Dead Sea Scrolls, and the Nag Hammadi. In addition, we have Book of Jubilees, the Trismigestic literature, the writings of Philo. Combined, these are a treasure trove of information which sheds light on the ideas circulating around the first century C.E. They help explain what has been handed down to us. We can reconstruct the original intended ideas from what has been recovered.

For example, Philo basically gives the instructions on how to write about the virgin birth contained within the Gospel stories. The authors of the Gospels probably had a copy of Philo‘s exposition of the divine Logos in front of them as they crafted the Gospel stories. It is word for word mythological instruction on the birth of the son of God from a virgin soul, namely, Wisdom, in whom God plants his virtues producing the divine Logos. Why no one cares is beyond me, unless people prefer their dark cave rather than entering into the light. Apparently, most people prefer superstitions and myths.
 
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e v e

Super Member
Sure, much has been lost but some has been recovered. For example, the Dead Sea Scrolls, and the Nag Hammadi. In addition, we have Book of Jubilees, the Trismigestic literature, the writings of Philo. Combined, these are a treasure trove of information which sheds light on the ideas circulating around the first century C.E. They help explain what has been handed down to us. We can reconstruct the original intended ideas from what has been recovered.

For example, Philo basically gives the instructions on how to write about the virgin birth contained within the Gospel stories. The authors of the Gospels probably had a copy of Philo‘s exposition of the divine Logos in front of them as they crafted the Gospel stories. It is word for word mythological instruction on the birth of the son of God from a virgin soul, namely, Wisdom, in whom God plants his virtues producing the divine Logos. Why no one cares is beyond me, unless people prefer their dark cave rather than entering into the light. Apparently, most people prefer superstitions and myths.
no one cares. :(

but keep in mind that there are errors even in those texts. sorting it out, to separate His words from esaus, is another issue.

what is hidden, on purpose, is cosmology: that eden is in the other world, that souls were placed here, far away, by those ‘gods’ who adam got in league with.
 
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