Janice Bower
Well-known member
So, you don't believe salvation can be lost?
Different types of Calvinism
- Thread starter eternomade
- Start date
Some of us complain about the big club he tends to carry with him.
Seriously though seems like a decent guy.
Janice Bower
Well-known member
Well, there are many verses that say God intends and will keep those He saves!
Theo1689
Well-known member
Heb. 6:1 Therefore let us leave the elementary doctrine of Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 and of instruction about washings, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3 And this we will do if God permits. 4 For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt. 7 For land that has drunk the rain that often falls on it, and produces a crop useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. 8 But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed, and its end is to be burned.
Heb. 6:9 Though we speak in this way, yet in your case, beloved, we feel sure of better things—things that belong to salvation.
Janice Bower
Well-known member
Johnny BEN good!
Janice Bower
Well-known member
Theo, I'm not in a position to judge anyone, but those who abandon Christ and don't repent couldn't have been born again, could they?
ReverendRV
Well-known member
I believe almost exactly like Theo. I think you can use this "Calling God a Liar", on your Mormon Friends. They will have to either accept what Saint John says, or accept what Joseph Smith says; and leave Sorrowful for they have many Works. It should succeed; especially when you pray for the Holy Spirit to make the difference...
I think this "Calling God a Liar" Hermeneutic could also be used here on this Board; I think I will try it! The premise is Biblical; Saint John established the method in his Epistle. It would be great on a Sola Scriptura Thread...
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Janice Bower
Well-known member
I'm happy and ready to get out of this chair, so I'll talk to all of you another time. Thanks for the input!
Janice Bower
Well-known member
I moved away from all those Mormons over twenty years ago, so I'm only talking to those on Carm.
I personally do not believe Jesus died for all. I also personally do not believe that there is anyone alive on this earth who could tell any of us who Jesus died for, other that the elect. Why? We have no idea who they are. We didn't choose, God did. The only evidence we have are those who die believers, and those who don't.Great question! IF Jesus died for all, why this:
2 Timothy 2
24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; IF God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
I ask because God brought me out of Mormonism.
Janice Bower
Well-known member
I was in a hurry and didn't do the math. It was over 30 years ago. Wow!
I would say Hyper Calvinism and ultra high Calvinism are the same and both hyper calvinismI took these definitions from a post on the puritan board. I will link it at the bottom. Below are some distinctions in "Calvinism" and even Lutheran/Arminian. I consider myself high/ultra high Calvinist. Where does this chart place you? There seems to be much confusion and speaking past each other regarding some of these terms.
Hyper-Calvinism: Beliefs: God is the author of sin and man has no responsibility before God. The Gospel should only preached to the elect. i.e. duty faith. and anti-missionary Belief in the five points is a prerequisite for true salvation, also known as Neo-Gnostic Calvinism. Proponents: Joseph Hussey John Skepp and some English primitive Baptists.
Ultra High Calvinism: Beliefs: That the elect are in some sense eternally justified. A denial of: The Well– Meant Offer; Common Grace; and God having any love for the non-elect. Proponents: John Gill, some ministers in the Protestant Reformed Church of America
High Calvinism: Beliefs: That God in no sense desires to save the reprobate, Most deny the Well-Meant Offer. Supralapsarian viewing God’s decrees. All hold to limited atonement. Most believe in particular grace and see the atonement as sufficient only for the elect. Proponents: Theodore Beza, Gordon Clark, Arthur Pink
Moderate Calvinism: Beliefs: That God does in some sense desires to save the reprobate, Infralapsarian in viewing God’s decrees. Affirms Common Grace. Proponents: John Calvin (some argue that he was a High-Calvinist), John Murray, RL Dabney
Low Calvinism: Beliefs: That Christ died for all in a legal sense, so one can speak of Christ dying for the non-elect. That God has two distinct wills. Affirms the Well-Meant Offer and Common Grace, Proponents: Amyraldrians , RT Kendal
Lutheranism: Beliefs: That Calvinist over emphasize God Sovereignty over man’s responsibility. That Christ died for all in legal sense, that some are predestined on to life but none are predestined onto death. That the sacraments are means of grace regardless of one’s faith. Proponents: Martin Luther, Philipp Melanchthon, Rod Rosenbladt
American Baptist: Beliefs: That God has given man libertarian freedom, that God’s knowledge of future is based on His foreknowledge. That Christ died for all and desires all to be saved. Once a persons believes the gospel, he is eternally secure. Rejects Calvinism, some would even call it heretical. Proponents: Jerry Falwell, Adrian Rogers
Arminianism Beliefs: That God has given man libertarian freedom, that God’s knowledge of future is solely based on His foreknowledge. That Christ died for all and desires all to be saved. A person can fall from the state of grace i.e. lose ones salvation, since it is our free will that chooses Christ at conversion. Proponents: Jacob Arminius, John Wesley some Methodists
Where are you on the Calvinism Chart?
Look at the following Calvinism Chart and see which best fits your particular Calvinist position. You don't have to agree explicitly with each definition, just place yourself were you most agree. This is an OPEN POLL. Your selection is not secret. Hyper-Calvinism: Beliefs: God is...www.puritanboard.com
Rather a hyper-Calvinist (historically and doctrinally) is someone who, because all are not chosen and redeemed, will not command all who hear the gospel to repent and believe. He is someone who starts from the right premises but draws the wrong conclusions—who does not believe that “God now commandeth all men every where to repent” (Acts 17:30).
A real hyper-Calvinist, then, is one who believes rightly in sovereign, double predestination and in particular redemption—who denies a universal love of God and a will of God to save all men. Yet he concludes wrongly that because God has determined who will be saved, sent Christ for them only, and gives to them salvation as a free gift, therefore only the elect should be commanded to repent and believe in the preaching of the gospel.
This, we believe, is a serious error. It is an error that effectively destroys both gospel preaching and evangelism—an error that must be exposed and avoided.
The heart of hyper-Calvinism, therefore, is a rejection of so-called “duty faith” and “duty repentance,” i.e., that it is the solemn duty and obligation of all who hear the gospel to repent and believe. Hyper-Calvinism concludes that, because men are lost in sin and are unable of themselves to repent and believe, it is a mistake to command them to do so. Such a command would imply that they are able to repent and believe.
From the covenant reformed church
eternomade
Well-known member
I'm not a hyper Calvinist. I share the gospel with you often. I believe that Christians should proclaim the gospel to all men. Evangelism is essential. I don't know what is meant by duty faith or duty repentance.
I reject Lordship salvation.
I reject progressive sanctification.
I reject common grace.
I reject the well meant offer.
If this makes me into a hyper Calvinist I don't really care, it's what I believe the Bible teaches.
David1701
Well-known member
Some of these definitions are inaccurate (e.g. many Arminians believe in OSAS; many baptists are "Calvinist" regarding salvation; every "Calvinist" that I've come across believes that God has two distinct wills (decretive and preceptive); Amyraldians are not really "Calvinists").I took these definitions from a post on the puritan board. I will link it at the bottom. Below are some distinctions in "Calvinism" and even Lutheran/Arminian. I consider myself high/ultra high Calvinist. Where does this chart place you? There seems to be much confusion and speaking past each other regarding some of these terms.
Hyper-Calvinism: Beliefs: God is the author of sin and man has no responsibility before God. The Gospel should only preached to the elect. i.e. duty faith. and anti-missionary Belief in the five points is a prerequisite for true salvation, also known as Neo-Gnostic Calvinism. Proponents: Joseph Hussey John Skepp and some English primitive Baptists.
Ultra High Calvinism: Beliefs: That the elect are in some sense eternally justified. A denial of: The Well– Meant Offer; Common Grace; and God having any love for the non-elect. Proponents: John Gill, some ministers in the Protestant Reformed Church of America
High Calvinism: Beliefs: That God in no sense desires to save the reprobate, Most deny the Well-Meant Offer. Supralapsarian viewing God’s decrees. All hold to limited atonement. Most believe in particular grace and see the atonement as sufficient only for the elect. Proponents: Theodore Beza, Gordon Clark, Arthur Pink
Moderate Calvinism: Beliefs: That God does in some sense desires to save the reprobate, Infralapsarian in viewing God’s decrees. Affirms Common Grace. Proponents: John Calvin (some argue that he was a High-Calvinist), John Murray, RL Dabney
Low Calvinism: Beliefs: That Christ died for all in a legal sense, so one can speak of Christ dying for the non-elect. That God has two distinct wills. Affirms the Well-Meant Offer and Common Grace, Proponents: Amyraldrians , RT Kendal
Lutheranism: Beliefs: That Calvinist over emphasize God Sovereignty over man’s responsibility. That Christ died for all in legal sense, that some are predestined on to life but none are predestined onto death. That the sacraments are means of grace regardless of one’s faith. Proponents: Martin Luther, Philipp Melanchthon, Rod Rosenbladt
American Baptist: Beliefs: That God has given man libertarian freedom, that God’s knowledge of future is based on His foreknowledge. That Christ died for all and desires all to be saved. Once a persons believes the gospel, he is eternally secure. Rejects Calvinism, some would even call it heretical. Proponents: Jerry Falwell, Adrian Rogers
Arminianism Beliefs: That God has given man libertarian freedom, that God’s knowledge of future is solely based on His foreknowledge. That Christ died for all and desires all to be saved. A person can fall from the state of grace i.e. lose ones salvation, since it is our free will that chooses Christ at conversion. Proponents: Jacob Arminius, John Wesley some Methodists
Where are you on the Calvinism Chart?
Look at the following Calvinism Chart and see which best fits your particular Calvinist position. You don't have to agree explicitly with each definition, just place yourself were you most agree. This is an OPEN POLL. Your selection is not secret. Hyper-Calvinism: Beliefs: God is...
I'd place myself in the "Moderate Calvinism" category, also holding to particular atonement.
You reject progressive sanctification ?
1 Peter 2:2 (KJV 1900) — 2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
2 Peter 3:18 (KJV 1900) — 18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
You reject common grace?
Titus 2:11 (KJV 1900) — 11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
John 1:9 (KJV 1900) — 9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
Romans 1:18–21 (KJV 1900) — 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
the well meant offer?
Mark 16:15–16 (KJV 1900) — 15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
was God being insincere