David1701
Well-known member
What was in those "believers" was unbelief.
Dirty-Rag faith...
- Thread starter ReverendRV
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e v e 21
Well-known member
would not faith be that a soul entrusts itself to Him… as opposed to listening to satan?
Err .....
Not sure about that.
If you say that, then man is without faith.
Welcome to Paul's gambit.
Not sure Jesus was doing that.
David1701
Well-known member
Fallen man IS without faith, unless God gives it to him.
Phil. 1:29 (Darby) because to you has been given, as regards Christ, not only the believing on him but the suffering for him also,
2 Thess. 3:2 (WEB) and that we may be delivered from unreasonable and evil men; for not all have faith.
Post 43.
ReverendRV
Well-known member
Maybe entrusting himself to them IS like him entrusting himself to the devil. Wouldn't this mean that what's in THEM, is the same thing that's in the DEVIL?
For the sake of the Thread, I can cut to the chase; could it be Unrighteousness/Wickedness in them? Since Jesus wouldn't entrust himself to them, isn't it safe to say that they had to be Unrighteous believers? Since Righteousness is Imputed to Believers, those believers must have not had Righteousness Imputed to them; doesn't Unrighteousness have to be something too when it is Wickedness?
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PeanutGallery
Well-known member
I know you do not believe Jesus would place his life in man's hands; however, it's confusing sometimes when text is not really black and white.You've known me for years here, you should know what I mean by now
L
Ladodgers6
Guest
You are suggesting that this is Graceless faith?
Joe
Well-known member
Graceless faith? I'm not sure what that is really. Do you have any other passages as an example?
I understand the context that people were believing in Him without counting the cost of being a follower, and giving up their life to the cares and pleasures of worldliness...Referencing the parable of the sower and seed. They fit the rock and thorns of the parable. Our Lord knew their faith in Him had no root and they still loved this world. He would prove this out during the remainder of His ministry.
It was not a matter of God not showing them grace. His Son was sent to them first to minister God's grace before going to the Gentiles.
God bless
Simpletruther
Well-known member
I am saying maybe the not entrusting really means not taking their word for it.
Maybe it's saying he simply didn't have to trust men's testimony of themselves, or of others on their behalf. Because he already knows their hearts. It's just highlighting his omniscience and divinity. And not about a bad faith at all. Maybe their faith was genuine. And he simply didnt have to just trust their claim of it.
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eternomade
Well-known member
I like the OP. Reminds me of a message I listened to today.
"When he heard that Jesus had come out of Judea into Galilee, he went to Him and implored Him to come down and heal his son, for he was at the point of death. Then Jesus said to him, “Unless you people see signs and wonders, you will by no means believe.” The nobleman said to Him, “Sir, come down before my child dies!” Jesus said to him, “Go your way; your son lives.” So the man believed the word that Jesus spoke to him, and he went his way. And as he was now going down, his servants met him and told him, saying, “Your son lives!” Then he inquired of them the hour when he got better. And they said to him, “Yesterday at the seventh hour the fever left him.” So the father knew that it was at the same hour in which Jesus said to him, “Your son lives.” And he himself believed, and his whole household. This again is the second sign Jesus did when He had come out of Judea into Galilee."
John 4:47-54 NKJV
"When he heard that Jesus had come out of Judea into Galilee, he went to Him and implored Him to come down and heal his son, for he was at the point of death. Then Jesus said to him, “Unless you people see signs and wonders, you will by no means believe.” The nobleman said to Him, “Sir, come down before my child dies!” Jesus said to him, “Go your way; your son lives.” So the man believed the word that Jesus spoke to him, and he went his way. And as he was now going down, his servants met him and told him, saying, “Your son lives!” Then he inquired of them the hour when he got better. And they said to him, “Yesterday at the seventh hour the fever left him.” So the father knew that it was at the same hour in which Jesus said to him, “Your son lives.” And he himself believed, and his whole household. This again is the second sign Jesus did when He had come out of Judea into Galilee."
John 4:47-54 NKJV
eternomade
Well-known member
I know you're not a fan of Paul but are you ok with the rest of Scripture?
ReverendRV
Well-known member
Yes, keep reading...
ReverendRV
Well-known member
ReverendRV
Well-known member
This sounds good...
But when some Traditionalists say the belief those folks had is good enough to Save people, something has to give. The Verse said they believed in Jesus, so the plain reading should be presupposed...
There was something in them that kept Jesus from Trusting them...
e v e 21
Well-known member
when one lives in their soul…
the soul being the only part of you that is His
only then can a soul listen to and Hear Him…
when one lives in the Self
meaning, listening to the flesh its needs and wants (sin realm)
then one is untrustable.
who lives in their soul and died to the Self
as paul exhorts?
Almost nobody.
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Carbon
Super Member
IMO it’s an example of faith based on signs.
And Jesus knew their hearts (for he knew all people). They believed in the signs he was performing but no indication they believed in Jesus himself for salvation.
ReverendRV
Well-known member
Yes, without a doubt. Did Jesus Trust himself to those who believed his miracles? Not really, that's the points of this Thread