Dispensationalism vs Amillennialism

American Gothic

Well-known member
Israel has...promises?
Israel has a promise of a National salvation Romans 11
the Norwegians do not
If God can save stubborn Jews, He can save anybody

Church has heaven promises?
I'll be coming back with Jesus when all the "coming with fire" stuff happens
it's gonna be dope

a plan for the church and a different plan for ethnic Jews "Wrong"
Salvation is always only by grace, thru faith (in Messiah)
God is gracious on whom He chooses, when and how He chooses

what He does, and how He does it, is for His glory
"For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen."

There won't be a future Millennium on this earth
God never breaks His promises
If you have no interest in all His promises being realized, that is yr deal
it all sounds kinda Rad to me
 

YeshuaFan

Well-known member
Although I lean heavily on the Amillennial side, I have to admit that both, premillennialists and postmillennialists have points that cannot be easily dismissed. I don't make dogmatic assertions just because I like Voddie Baucham, R. C. Sproul, James White or John MacArthur. After all, who doesn't worship as if Christ is reigning now, or hope that postmillennialists are right about the future.
ALL of those views can find support in the scriptures, and we are not to separate on this issue, nor look down on others with differing views!
 

YeshuaFan

Well-known member
Promises made to Israel are kept with Israel.
The New covenant is not made with the Church - Gentiles in Messiah are brought near, and benefit from Jewish promises.
Gentile believers are not spiritual Jews, they have become spiritual Gentiles.
There is always a remnant of Israel, by grace, thru faith.
The Nations are the Nations, Israel is Israel - the Chruch was a new creation consisting of persons from both.

God promised a Messianic kingdom to Israel, and a Messianic kingdom there will be.
There was an age of Creation, and age of Torah, there is now an age of Grace, and there will be a Kingdom age.
David and the Zadoks might rule and serve under the rule of Messiah. Ezekiel 37 Ezekiel 44
Spiritual Israel are the saved Jews and gentiles now in Christ Jesus
 

YeshuaFan

Well-known member
Israel has a promise of a National salvation Romans 11
the Norwegians do not
If God can save stubborn Jews, He can save anybody


I'll be coming back with Jesus when all the "coming with fire" stuff happens
it's gonna be dope


Salvation is always only by grace, thru faith (in Messiah)
God is gracious on whom He chooses, when and how He chooses

what He does, and how He does it, is for His glory
"For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen."


God never breaks His promises
If you have no interest in all His promises being realized, that is yr deal
it all sounds kinda Rad to me
God always saves out a faithful remnant among the Jewish people every generation, and they will be reborn as a nation to Minim when they see Lord Jesus returning!
 

YeshuaFan

Well-known member
God has fulfilled his promises made to Israel, in Jesus Christ Galatians 3:16

No such thing as two peoples of God (Church/Israel), a false teaching found in dispesationalism known as (Dual Covenant Theology)
Church is spiritual israel right now, but national Israel shall have their hope at Jesus second coming!
 

Keraz

Active member
you can't be a spiritual Jew if yr not a Jew (?)
the prophet Nathan probably wasn't a Jew

the Church has kool promises of her own
Yes you can. Paul said so in Romans 2:29.

ALL the Promises of God are to His faithful people, from every tribe, race, nation and language. 1 Peter 2:9-10, Revelation 5:9-10
Being born a Jew has absolutely no advantage; genetics count for nothing. Ephesians 2:11-18.
In fact today, it is a disadvantage, as they face enemies on all sides and are prophesied to be virtually destroyed. Only a remnant will survive. Romans 9:27
 

American Gothic

Well-known member
Yes you can. Paul said so in Romans 2:29.

ALL the Promises of God are to His faithful people, from every tribe, race, nation and language. 1 Peter 2:9-10, Revelation 5:9-10
Being born a Jew has absolutely no advantage; genetics count for nothing. Ephesians 2:11-18.
In fact today, it is a disadvantage, as they face enemies on all sides and are prophesied to be virtually destroyed. Only a remnant will survive. Romans 9:27
Israel has a promise that when they are scattered from the Land they will eventually be brought back - not a Gentile promise Deut. 29-30
it prophetically acknowledges Israel's unbelief and disobedience to the Mosaic covenant
who is a Jew at heart of not a Jew at heart is an inter-Jewish argument
"Indeed you are called a Jew..."
this clarifies Who the passage of v. 17-29 is talking to in Romans 2

there is more than 2 covenants in the Bible
unconditional covenants and promises are unconditional
"But now in Christ Jesus you (Gentiles) who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ."
brought near to benefit from spiritual promises made to Israel, not overtake or do away with all their physical promises

again - what covenant did God specifically cut with the Church?
 
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Truth7t7

Well-known member
Israel has a promise of a National salvation Romans 11
the Norwegians do not
If God can save stubborn Jews, He can save anybody


I'll be coming back with Jesus when all the "coming with fire" stuff happens
it's gonna be dope


Salvation is always only by grace, thru faith (in Messiah)
God is gracious on whom He chooses, when and how He chooses

what He does, and how He does it, is for His glory
"For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen."


God never breaks His promises
If you have no interest in all His promises being realized, that is yr deal
it all sounds kinda Rad to me
No such thing as "National" salvation for anybody

If your 10% 25% 50% Jewish does that count, smiles!

God has no respect of person, scripture clearly teaches a "Remnant" will be saved, the rest will be blinded, any claim of a "National" salvation is absurd

"All Israel Saved" will be fulfilled when the last soul is added to the book of life and added to the Church, which is the Israel of God

Romans 11:5-8KJV
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.
 
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Truth7t7

Well-known member
When satan is bound, its far more then just he cannot stop the gospel message, as in its all false religions and teachings are cat away here on earth!
Satan is "Currently" bound from "One Specific Purpose", And One Only?

"Deceive The Nations" To Battle

The Non-Literal 1,000 Years (Revelation) 20:1-6 Are Taking Place Now In The Lords Spiritual, And Will Cease At The Future Second Coming

If A Tribulation Saint Were To Die One Day Before The Second Coming, He Enters Into The Non-Literal 1,000 Year Reign

Many That Promote Millennialism Falsely Teach, Satan Cant Be Presently Bound Because Evil Exist In The World?

Satan Is Presently Bound From (One Specific Purpose) As Is Clearly Seen In (Revelation) 20:7-8 Below That Interprets (Deceive The Nations) Is To Battle, Not General Evil In The World Presently.

Satan Is Loosed At The End Of The Tribulation When The 6th Vial Is Poured Out As Seen In (Revelation) 16:12, The Deception Is Devils In False Miracles Going Forth To The Kings Of The Earth, To Gather Them To The Final Battle

Revelation 20:1-9KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

(Revelation) 16:12-14 & (Revelation) 20:7-8 Same Deception In Gathering The Nations To The Very Same Final Battle In "Parallel" Teachings Of The Same Event

(Revelation) 16:12-17KJV
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
you can't be a spiritual Jew if yr not a Jew (?)
the prophet Nathan probably wasn't a Jew

the Church has kool promises of her own
Romans 2:28-29KJV
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
Church is spiritual israel right now, but national Israel shall have their hope at Jesus second coming!
Only the remnant elect Jew will be saved and added to Israel the Church

When the last soul is saved and added to Israel the Church, then the saying "All Israel Will Be Saved" will be fulfilled
 

Keraz

Active member
Israel has a promise that when they are scattered from the Land they will eventually be brought back
Your mistake is in thinking the current citizens of the Jewish State of Israel are the only Israel.
They are in fact; usurpers, a mixed racial group who have falsely claimed the name of Israel. I have been there and there is the same diversity of racial types, as any other nation.
Claiming descent as a prerequisite for Gods favor, is totally in conflict with what Jesus came to offer: Salvation for all who will accept it and those who do believe in Him and keep His Commandments; ARE the Israelites of God.
 

American Gothic

Well-known member
this has to be kept with Who it was promised -

“Now it shall come to pass, when all these things come upon you, the blessing and the curse which I have set before you<<(Mosaic covenant), and you call them to mind among all the nations where the Lord your God drives you, 2 and you return to the Lord your God and obey His voice, according to all that I command you today, you and your children, with all your heart and with all your soul, 3 that the Lord your God will bring you back from captivity, and have compassion on you, and gather you again from all the nations where the Lord your God has scattered you. 4 If any of you are driven out to the farthest parts under heaven, from there the Lord your God will gather you, and from there He will bring you. 5 Then the Lord your God will bring you to the land which your fathers possessed, and you shall possess it. He will prosper you and multiply you more than your fathers. 6 And the Lord your God will circumcise your heart <<(New covenant) and the heart of your descendants, to love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, that you may live.

7 “Also the Lord your God will put all these curses on your enemies and on those who hate you, who persecuted you. 8 And you will again obey the voice of the Lord and do all His commandments which I command you today. 9 The Lord your God will make you abound in all the work of your hand, in the [b]fruit of your body, in the increase of your livestock, and in the produce of your land for good. For the Lord will again rejoice over you for good as He rejoiced over your fathers, 10 if you obey the voice of the Lord your God, to keep His commandments and His statutes which are written in this Book of the Law, and if you turn to the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul." Deut. 30
" they shall dwell in the land that I have given to Jacob My servant, where your fathers dwelt; and they shall dwell there, they, their children, and their children’s children, forever; and My servant David shall be their prince forever. 26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them, and it shall be an everlasting covenant with them; I will establish them and multiply them, and I will set My sanctuary in their midst forevermore. 27 My tabernacle also shall be with them; indeed I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 28 The nations also will know that I, the Lord, sanctify Israel, when My sanctuary is in their midst forevermore.” ’ ”

" “Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; 22 and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again.
(New covenant made with "house of Judah and the house of Israel" ie. all Israel Jeremiah 31)

23 They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions; but I will deliver them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. Then they shall be My people, and I will be their God." Ezekiel 37

pointing out most of Israel is currently in unbelief is True (the Church is by default a body of Believers)
still no covenant made specifically with the Church...
 
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Gern

Member
pointing out most of Israel is currently in unbelief is True (the Church is by default a body of Believers)
still no covenant made with the Church...

Good afternoon AG,

As an observation... The remnant (Jewish Believers who accept Jesus as the Christ), are who would be deemed as "True Israel", or "spiritual Jews". There are essentially two Israel(s), ethnic Israel, and spiritual Israel. Spiritual Israel (the remnant) has dual citizenship in both ethnic Israel and in the church.

The tribulation period has several purposes, the judgment of the nations, world wide evangelism, and the purging and conversion of Israel.
 
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